If it doesnt hurt anybody...

the idea that you shouldn't do a particular activity because it might "emotionally" hurt others, is just emotional blackmail in an effort to control your behaviour - simply others trying to control you.

as a control freak (only of myself ) i find that MORE than intensely annoying.

I'm not sure what you are asking Ray.

if the fact that i am me and exist hurts one random person such as me travelling and some people feel resentment cause they wish blablabla... or something like that I do not care it is THEIR problem. If it hurts someone i am close to i will talk it over with them.

If being me hurts my friend or partner then I will also to try and see it with their point of view and understand what exactly it is taht hurts them, if I can help this at all or not. THis is when I speak for me about the importance of taking responsability.
I think one can do sometimes something thinking this is harmless and true to oneself and do crazy damage. Taking responsability for one s act is sometimes being able to say : I surely did not mean to therefore am not "guilty" but I still am responsible for your sorrow and apologize it ever hurt you.
I also am thankfull in a weird way because the few times I have "accidentally" hurt close people I have heard their words and grown so very much from it... learning from mistakes or bad actions is a proof of intelligence I guess, intelligence of the heart mainly.

hmmmm just my two pennies
Shine on
cass

I haven't replied for some time now, but Cass... wow ... your words... I agree with you 1000%... I know theres only 100 in a % but this time theres 1000... How are you too know what something you may or may not do is to do to somebody else... this all turns into a "what if" topic... what if you didn't walk down the street... what if you didn't tie your lace at that point in time... what if you didn't talk to that one person who would be you one true love...? Learn from your mistakes, live your life, and do what you want to do... because you want too.

Bye

My roommate is an alcoholic, bigtime. He has been orderd not to drink, and has been demoted due to his drinking.

He is very depressed and cant grasp why somethings are treated certain ways.

There is an unwritten rule, What happens on WestPac, stays on WestPac.

There have been cases of adultry (in the military this is a criminal offence) yet nothing has been done, yet it is a crime for him to drink. (those were his parphrased words)

He cant grasp that we are trying to prevent him from hurting himself further.

Now he is on restriction and cant leave our room unless he is going to work or chow. This is literally driving him nuts. Yesterday he managed to get something that intoxicated him. He has given several things about how he got so intoxicated that he passed out for a few hours and was pretty much blacked out for the rest of the day.

He even packed a bag and tried to run off.


He has yet to hurt anybody buy where do you draw the line between someone only hurting themselves and somebody really hurting themselves?

Okay Ade, it isnt my life, but if I am truly a friend, will I allow him to continue down a self destructive path that may end up getting him killed?

I dont want to direct his path, just keep him saine. If I know he is vilating his orders, and I dont do anything about it, I am guilty of carnal knowlege. That is knowing that a crime has been commited and I dont report it.

As much as it pains you Ray, what else are you going to do:

tie him to his bed so he can't sneak a drink?
punch him out everytime he drinks?
dob him into your officers?
hide the alcohol?
yell at him everytime he drinks?

or, walk beside him, offering support, and when he is ready, be there to hold his hand (or just be a good mate ) on his recovery journey?

I will enforce his orders, is what I will do. I will yell and screem when needed, and I will also be there to see he gets his drunk ass back into bed and then inform whom I need to.

I will do all the above in order to help him stay sober.

That is what a friend would do. A friend doesnt let someone continue down a desrutive path.

If I was a friend of his I would be absolutely disgusted to see he does not get any psychological support for his desintoxication.
Alcoholism is a pretty serious addiction and you do not just "stop" you need help... AA or an equivalent...

I am personnaly really disgusted he gets locked in not help...

cass

Frosty, I am sorry man but you dont understand the situation that he is in. He is a single guy living in a barracks in Japan, with no home other than his parents to go to. He is also in the military, if he leaves and doesnt come back within 30 days he is a deserter. IE maximum penalty is death. Granted nobody has been sentenced to death for some time for this charge.


Letting him leave in an intoxicated state would be the wrong thing to do. What if something happend and he fell into the binjo ditch (Japan uses above ground sewers)? He could die from the shit in there.

Letting him leave be the absolute worst thing I could do.


Cass, he has been orderd to AA meetings and yet he does not go. Short of hospitalising him there isnt much we can do in the mental health department.

I wish I could blame the Corps for his alcoholisim but I cant.

i have a kinda personal stake in this conversation, so please bear with me.

my sis has been a heavy pothead/drunk for the past 4 years. I am not putting this as a statement of "NEVER, EVER TRY ANYTHING OR YOU WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE", but she definitely got in over her head. she used the excuse of "its not hurting anyone" almost daily. however, here are some hurts she never thought of. she was a minor when this started, ergo when she got caught(more than once) my parents normally ended up footing the bill. She is also legally living in my folks house, meaning that when they go to adopt(they're trying) her habits could f**k up the process. she had daily fights with my mom, which in addition to ruining their relationship, left both parties ready to lash out at me. she lost her chance at college, leaving her poor and living at home. she even did such stupid things as break her finger and leave it untreated, causing medical debts for my folks. her maturity level also seemed to lower the longer she took drugs. it caused creat angst to me to be studying comp sci or A+ cert or Calculus while she thought it was humorous to break wind and laugh hysterically, or to give wet willys, or to yell random strings of swears.

my overall point is, she did hurt others, as well as herself, by sticking to that f**king addage of "its not hurting anyone"

cya

I would like to give a **** you to all the people out there who think you should just let someone do what they want. To everyone who thinks that just because someone isnt hurting someone else that they should be allowed to do what they want when they want.


My room-mate is on the way to the hospital now because he downed half a bottle of 26% alcohol mouthwash, and half a bottle of rubbing alcohol!

quote:

---

As much as it pains you Ray, what else are you going to do:

tie him to his bed so he can't sneak a drink?
punch him out everytime he drinks?
dob him into your officers?
hide the alcohol?
yell at him everytime he drinks?

or, walk beside him, offering support, and when he is ready, be there to hold his hand (or just be a good mate ) on his recovery journey?

---

The man isnt on a nice sweet journey, he is on the fast track to serious bodily harm or death.

He has a problem, and all of our attempts to help him recover have failed. Even our drastic measures have failed. I dont know what to do now, but I'll tell you one thing, it wont be to let him do stupid shit just because he isnt hurting me or anyone else!

No

If anyone thinks that they have the right to tell anybody else what they can and cannot do with/to themselves when it has no effect or bearing on anybody else, basically because you don't like it, then doesn't that make you a facist pig? Isn't that the basis of most arguments/fights/and wars even?!

of course always offer advice, consolance, be there for someone who may need help, help them to learn ways to deal with their frustrations and depressions in other ways, but speaking from personal experience sometimes it is best to let them do it.
If they want to stop hurting themselves but can't just be there for them, sometimes they need to get close to the edge to appreciate the good things they have, like their friends and family.

It can be best to let go, it can be best to interfere. But you never know which is right until it's all over.

Good luck helping your friends everyone!

Ray's roommate's case is probably more linked to the 'Drugs and choice' thread than this one. This guy has a problem that's out of his control. He's lost his grasp of reality - drinking mouthwash and rubbing alcohol ain't sane.

Like other have said here, you do want you want as long as it doesn't hurt others, but you've really got to be sensitive to what can hurt others. Unfortunately a classic part of addiction to drugs such as alcohol is denial of it's effects on others. So this guy can't see that he's hurting those around him, and that I've seen too much before

Hurt is a natural thing it seems, if you love/care for someone you will get hurt by them in some way, and likewise you will hurt them. Not because you mean it, but because no one's perfect. The only thing a person can do is try to minamize (sp?) the pain they inflict on others and themselves.
Its impossible to do something that won't hurt somebody it seems. I suppose the best thing to do is not ponder too much on it, and to try and lead people in the right direction when they can be guided. And try to live the best life, *feels idealistic* sharing love, kindness, compassion etc. Its all well enough saying this, but its even more difficult to carry out.

I think in my situation, which I won't name for shyness, I found that it got better because I knew no matter what I did my parents always loved me however much hurt I put them through. I suppose I am gratefully that my family was able to offer me such unconditional love when I didn't love myself, or wasn't able to show them I loved them.

Anyway, I'm sure I missed the point at some stage.
Be good to yourselves
Caislin

Raymond...in my opinion, a good friend does all that is reasonable to to prevent someone from going down a self-destructive path.

"all that is reasonable"

A good friend does not allow themselves to be dragged down with an ailing friend, so that at some point in the future, neither of them are any use to anyone.

Sure, there are lots of things you can do to help him out, but not EVERYTHING.

If you are lying awake at night with worry, or trying to think of ways to get him out of this on your own, then it is affecting your life and friendship more than if you backed off a little.

You can give him support, and encourage other, professional people to give him support.

It is NOT your job to help him out of this mire, it is your job to be a friend.

There are professional people out there who get paid to help people out of these mires. THEM and ONLY THEM should bear any burden for this person.


Be a friend, because you can't be a doctor.

Be a friend, and do what you can.

But to STAY a friend, you need to know when you are expecting too much of yourself as well.

(In my opnion)

I like how Ray asks an open ended question, politely waits for an answer, then explains how you're all wrong. I think that's my favorite thing about him.