US Gun laws are "License to murder"

Yakumo, only in America

That would be a funny incident, if it wasn’t so true.




Hopefully, "these types" of people will get all the help they need when Obama nationalises health care in the United States.






News Flash: Trailer park murders: 7 dead, 2 wounded

Seven people have been found dead and two critically injured after a homicide in a trailer park in the south-eastern US state of Georgia, local police said. The coroner declined to specify whether the victims had been shot, adding the two wounded people were transported to a local hospital.

The killing at the New Hope trailer park, which is described on its website as a 250-acre site of pine trees and pecan groves, is the latest in a spate of mass killings in the United States.

In August, a Pennsylvania man embittered by what he described as constant rejection by women, walked into a gym and opened fire on a dance class, killing three women before turning the gun on himself. In a blog uncovered after the murders, he documented in chilling detail his plans to carry out the shooting, and even described him carrying out a trial run of the killings.

Earlier, in April, a spate of mass shootings horrified Americans.

On April 3, Jiverly Voong barricaded a civic centre in upstate New York, killing 13 people, most of them recent immigrants, before shooting himself.

Days later, a Washington state man shot and killed his five children, between the ages of seven and 16, then turned the gun on himself after his wife told him she was leaving him.

Then on April 7, a gunman shot dead his wife, daughter and two other people before killing himself in Greenhill, Alabama.

stone, a sydney man recently killed his wife daughter and three grand children, all without a gun.

i agree with you that tighter gun control would probably be a good idea, but simply mentioning mass killings that involved firearms doesnt make the argument.

Majestik, I just wondering if there is a cover up. Perhaps, even some admission that putting semi-automatic assault weapons in the hands of civilians might not have been the brightest thing to do seeing how often they are used in massacres.

In the early reports Heinze made a call to the emergency 911 line that led police to the New Hope mobile park Saturday morning where they found bodies of seven people and two others injured, reportedly the victims of a shooting. So whats happening?

Most of the media stories, including the ABC, ended their reports with links to previous gun massacres like the following: “The killing at the New Hope trailer park, is the latest in a spate of mass killings in the United States. In August, a Pennsylvania man embittered by what he described as constant rejection by women, walked into a gym and opened fire on a dance class, killing three women before turning the gun on himself. In an online blog uncovered after the murders, he documented in chilling detail his plans to carry out the shooting, and even described how he carried out a trial run of the killings. Earlier, in April, a spate of mass shootings horrified Americans. On April 3, Jiverly Voong barricaded a civic center in upstate New York, killing 13 people, most of them recent immigrants, before shooting himself. Days later, a Washington state a man shot and killed his five children, between the ages of seven and 16, then turned the gun on himself after his wife told him she was leaving him. Then on April 7, a gunman shot dead his wife, daughter and two other people before killing himself in Greenhill, Alabama.”

So the question remains, when is America going to take a stand and introduce legislation to reduce gun violence. As opposed to legislation that puts semi-automatic assault weapons into the hands of civilians?

tomorrow?

I'm not suspecting a cover up in this story, Stone. Time will tell the truth in this one.

Mr. M!!!! you, here!! The point in posting the massacres committed with firearms is to show people how many there are in such a short period of time. Obviously many are not aware of how much violent abuse of firearms there is.

People do kill (a number of) other people without guns - absolutely true statement. Only not remotely that frequently and in those large numbers as they do with firearms.

Personally I'm not saying that the devil lives in a gun, waiting to be unleashed. I'm saying that the US applies double standards when it comes to the protection of its citizens.

They require to write "objects are closer than they appear" in every rear mirror, but no warning about the misuse of a handgun to be found on them. They seem to consider most consumers as fools, but they fully trust them operating deadly weapons - it seems.

I understand when Lurch says:



My answer: because you take the job and receive (tax payers) money for it! Every single hour on duty YOU get paid!

You have a problem with people raising expectations for that reason, consider changing your profession FIRST! Because - IMHO - you accept this. Taking the $ and not doing your duty... well... could be considered "fraud".



I'm not fighting a fight, Lurch. I'm part of a (silent) majority that raises their voices - like it or not.

You do "have the right for safety"... how so? Who or what gives you this right? I don't understand. Because you're paying your government? Do you yourself not trust your life and health on firefighters and medics?

I only see a whole bunch of inconsistency in your argumentation guys... Maybe the same you see on ours, but

you really believe that you could make a stand against your own or the Russian military? *humms: dream on...*

dG and Lurch: Do you support that countries like North Korea or Iran should not have WoMD? Or would you rather accept that the same standards you request for yourself should apply for nations?

This video made me think of this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kuuw8pT5ny0

not sure what was more scary.... the vid or the comment "...good to see that nothing has changed..."

thanks for posting, Groovy

ye ye the odd shootout update:

article



Should be sufficient evidence to flatten the CCW argument...

Oh I knew this was going to pop up..

How does that possibly squash CCW? If anything it reinforces it. US Military bases that are stateside are pretty gun free. The only generally armed on base are the MP's (military police). That's not to say there aren't weapons, they just aren't supposed to pack them. Particularly because some people go nuts when they find out they're getting deployed.

It was a female cop that stopped this guy by shooting him. And you had a room full of trained soldiers who were all unarmed. The whole thing was over in 3 minutes.

I don't get why you prefer a cop arriving on scene minutes after the fact and dropping a suspect, to a civilian being able to at least have the chance to end it faster. Granted that doesn't apply much to a military base cause they're under orders not to carry. But the concept of this tragedy should carry over.

hmm - last time I checked the guards were carrying ... and then you get a looney who somehow (in an "arms free - military base" ) gets hold of a few handguns and starts shooting people... and they have to call the cops... (kind of ironic innit?) let's wait for that looney officer who goes on a spree in a police station and they (got to) wait for the army to move in...

You can see it from two sides - I guess - I for my part didn't expect you to change your opinion either...

for all the other questions you raised: we have been over this so many times that they got to be rhetorical

Another day in America, another gun massacre

US bases stateside aren't much different from a small town. Most people don't carry on base, and sometimes it's under orders. MP (guards) carry obviously, and in this case Fort Hoods policing was contracted out to Department of Defense civilian police, not military personnel.

Like I said up there, the whole thing was done and over with in 3 minutes, that's a fast response time for anywhere.

It's not like the UK doesn't have enough problems with its legal system.. they gave out 40,000 'cautions' last year instead of actually doing any policework

Lurch... would you do us a favor please?

Take a piece of wick and aim a bullet at it... would like to know whether that stuff is any good for it....

wrong kinda kevlar my friend I have a vest anyways..

Maybe I *will* shoot an old wick, you kinda have me curious anyways.. phone books work remarkably well

I would say the yellow pages also burn quite well - only they are too heavy to spin and it's a one time gig only

pls kep us posted - there'sa "Kevlar and the war" threat on SC

Whoever said the guards carry guns is semi-correct. A lot of weapons carried on base are not loaded. In fact most of them I am pretty sure have no rounds in them at all.

You're a little off doppel. Guards most definitely carry, and are definitely loaded. Anyone in a police position who carries an empty weapon is an idiot, and asking for trouble.

General troops, when they're loading up to go overseas are usually unloaded though yes. But there isn't a reason for them to be locked and loaded stateside, and it would add another 20+ pounds per man which adds up quickly when you're flying guys by the hundreds

Criminals will get guns whether you outlaw them or not. If you don't believe me look at the crime rates in Washington DC, where even off duty cops can't have guns yet gun crimes are through the roof.

Sometimes regulation is more effective than prohibition.

which is why I've always supported enforcing more completely the laws that are already in place but perhaps loosely enforced

In my experience, people who want to get rid of guns are that way because they fear guns. And there's the problem of gun bans vs. the constitution as well.

My brother has four rifles and a hand gun. He open carries the hand gun around town. We live in Michigan so open carrying a firearm is completely legal. And you know what? Basically no one gives a damn. The only people who freak out are the people who don't understand the local laws, and once they do they mellow the hell out.

Prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work on alcohol, it isn't working on weed, it will never work on guns. The more you ban firearms the harder you're making it for law-abiding citizens, not criminals. If your logic worked Washington DC would be totally free of gun crimes but it's completely off the scale high.

The reality is, about 15K people a year die in gun related deaths in the United States. Know how many people die a year in auto accidents? Over 40K. Clearly, we must BAN ALL PRIVATELY OWNED CARS!

And while we're at it nearly a quarter million die a year from medical errors! BAN ALL DOCTORS!

Seriously. We can ramp this up real quick. You're more likely to be killed in a car accident or by your own doctor than a gun, two things which are a hell of a lot more regulated than guns if you think about it.

Actually, I think the stats you quote is more likely to be 15,000 people over the age of 19 years old in the USA were killed by murder in 1991. Even then I suspect it is an gross underestimation.

If you are worried by the number of people killed in automobile accidents each year then you would know that the number could be significantly lower if mandatory seat belt legislation was introduced.

Stone, I don't know where you live in the United States but it is the law to wear a seatbelt and cops around here will bust you for it without even thinking about it if they pull you over and you aren't wearing one, and will bust you further if you have kids and the kids aren't. How the cops enforce it where you are, who knows, but the states I've lived in recently ticket for it.

The 15K I quoted is actually a number I got from my brother, who's been advocating locally for the concealed carry ban for campuses to be lifted. He said it's yearly gun related deaths overall, minus suicides.

glad im not in the US :S

Ringshadow, fair enough, It’s good that seat-belt laws are enforced in your state. It will help save many lives. I’m not from the states, so I had to look up the seat-belt laws. They vary widely, with different states having different levels of regulation. Mostly it seems tokenism, and like gun regulation, there seems to be little commitment to reducing unnecessary deaths.

It all comes back to people objecting to seat-belt laws or gun regulation because any law is seen as an infringing on civil liberties. It is also falsely believed that that since deaths are caused by seat-belts in accidents, that the government has no right to legislate an activity (buckling up) that may cause a person's death in the hopes it will maybe save others. Go figure!

It’s s similar story with guns. Most gun deaths are a result of accidents. For example, Ferrum student's death unusual: Accidents rarely involve non-hunters. On a more reassuring note, Medford school teacher loses again in bid to carry gun to school.

Stone, I'm fine with teachers having guns. In fact, I think they should carry them. There's another statistic out there saying that one in ten teachers will be attacked by students in their career. Not cool. If they can't have guns, they should at least be allowed to carry tasers or mace. Not that I'm holding my breath for this to happen.

Mostly I just find all the reactionary stuff about this just... annoying. Of course I'm a future nuke worker so people blowing things out of proportion is just part of my day to day life. I had a friend who didn't realize there was steam in nuke plants... Basically, yeah. I'm sorry if I seem really irritated but ill informed debaters make me facepalm. I mean if US gun laws are "license to murder" but only about 15K die a year from guns, then are a doctor's license to practice a "license to genocide" because over 200K die a year from medical errors? Silly. Just silly.

For a start, the number you quote of 15,000 underestimates the number of gun deaths per year. The actual figure is more like 60,000 deaths per year, of which most are preventable.

Doctors don’t kill 200,000 people a year. That’s the figure quoted for the number of people that die from in-hospital medical errors. Perhaps that’s why President Barack Obama is trying to reform the U.S. healthcare system. Unfortunately, it seems that the people that advocate more and more gun rights are the same people that are trying to block medical reform. It’s also naïve to suggest that because less people die from guns compared to medical errors, then the number of gun deaths is somehow acceptable.

The bottom line is that a “civilised” society tries to reduce unnecessary death from all areas. This includes car accidents, medical errors and guns. And guns in school, are definitely not cool.

Interesting observation.

Ummm yea..guns in school. now that'd be a way for substitute teachers go gain instant respect. Walk into the classroom with a Desert Eagle strapped onto their hip.
Or better yet, a big honking shotgun to clip into the blackboard-side shotgun rack. Kind like this thing , but vertical.

Stout, I don’t know if I would call it an “interesting observation” perhaps “sad” is a better description. Anyhow, I picked up the observation while I was watching TV interviews with the gun slingers (open carry) that showed up when Obama was on the hustings.


White House Takes On Gun Lobby's Health Care Reform Attacks.

“You might not necessarily think that health care reform would end up in the crosshairs of the gun lobby. But you'd be wrong. Gun Owners of America have been raging against the Senate health care bill for all sorts of imagined threats to the Second Amendment, and now the White House has taken notice..”

Gun Lobby Mobilizes Against Health Reform By Claiming Obama Administration Will Issue ‘No Guns’ Decree.

The "armed-citizen" is the backbone of the country, don’t ya no?, u all!

Sad would fit nicely. Paranoid even better.

I've never heard of the GOA before I suppose they probably side with Kellerman on the idea that guns are a public health issue.

Really, it's self reliance that's the backbone of the country, that guy with the sign is just a gun industry shill and any step towards anything that even remotely resembles socialism instantly gets the panties of groups like GOA into one huge collective knot. First, it's health care for poor people, the next it'll be standing in line wearing a Chairman Mao jacket hoping for a ration of government issued gruel just like us commie hordes in Canada.


Pssst,,,that's Y'all

Stout, I’m not sure about the GOA guys siding with Kellerman. Though, you have to love the irony in the “wellness and prevention” program inserted the new Public Health Services Act. It allows the government to offer lower premiums to employers who live healthier lifestyles ie. lives with out guns. Y'all. Did I get it right? Cheers.