Fuel and the Environment

Hey there,

Like many of you, I'm concerned about the irresponsibility I sometimes see in the fire scene. I'm especially concerned by fuel spillage. The last thing I want to see when I'm out in nature is a bunch of fuel getting spilled all over the ground. (One tablespoon of fuel can contaminate a small frogpond.)

To avoid spillage, I've started using a "shake off can:" a large can with a sieve-like apparatus at the bottom (I use a vegetable steamer, which I bought at a thrift store for two dollars). After I dip my poi, I put them in the shake off can and swing it in a few big circles, then I pour the excess fuel back into my dipping can. I highly recommend this approach. It works great, and it's really no trouble.

If this doesn't make sense, I've posted pictures and a more in-depth explanation at http://www.thevenue.org/fuelandenvironment.htm

Once you start using a shake off can, you'll never go back. It's amazing how much fuel you're spraying around every time you shake your wicks off.

Peace,

Nick

Nice idea!!!!
*Really like the web site BTW*
LOL
Taking it easy
Trippy

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Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone.
N.E.W.B. Agent #012
"I Got Soul"

First of all, I love the idea of the steamer. I had never thought of that. I like it because it seems the extra fuel can be easily utilized. Seems like it would only work well for poi though.
(but the link didn't work for me so something might be missing when I visualize it in my head)

Anyway, beyond the fuel we spray in shake off there is alot that in unenvironmental in what we do, and your idea is great but only really minimizes it a little bit. Fuel still sprays off when spinning to a small degree. It can not be helped. And let's discuss the fumes. We are burning fuels. The air contamination is pretty decent there. The loud music is noise pollution, expecially when out in the woods somewhere or late at night. The list goes on and on. Some friends and I sat and went through all of this a couple years ago. They are neo-hippies and no longer spin fire. *shrug*
I suppose it comes down to priority and principle for each of us, but it is something we need to be aware of.
Thank you for sharing your idea! I really like it!

[ 18. February 2003, 06:06: Message edited by: Pele ]

Yes, I admit that there are many other toxic issues of firespinning that I'm not sure how to address yet.

I do think that the shake off can eliminates most spillage (and yes, for poi only, I haven't come up with a staff technique yet . I always start spinning very slowly, and don't seem to spray at all, so I really don't think I'm spilling/spraying any fuel.

I agree that that burning fuel is a problem, although burning a tablespoon causes less harm than spilling a tablespoon into water. To address this, I try to be a bit reserved with my use of fire. I love spinning, and my practice poi are usually enough. I also try to not use fuel in other areas of my life. I drive a bike instead of a car, I try to be efficient with heating at home, etc.

Not sure why the link didn't work. Maybe the site was down for a moment. It's working again now. (Darned fangdangled internet).

As for noise pollution: it depends on the music! I swear, nature likes good beats.

Peace

I really like that spinoff bucket idea. A few weeks after I started with fire, I noticed a whole bunch of parallel streaks of dead grass all over the backyard. I figured from then on that fuel couldn't be very good for the environment...

I love your whole site. I feel inspired to take up tai chi now.... how long my inspired feeling will last is another question, though!

and the spin off bucket is a great idea too. Thanks for sharing.

It worked for me this time. I like it the site and the idea still, but my favorite part was the smoothie research! LOL

Little known fact, while laying in bed in the hospital there were multiple tv stations showing the making of many forms of smoothies. Being in a somewhat strange state from drugs, and not being able to eat or drink, I actually had lucid dreams about drinking smoothies! I fully thought I was on a deck by water sipping a fruity concoction. Now I know better, but that whole area really struck a personal funny chord! Thanks!

Hurray! I'm so glad your read the smoothie research section. We're planning on expanding it quite dramatically this spring. We're even developing an "automatic smoothie recipe generator," which will randomly pick ingredients from different categories to inspire innovative and dynamic smoothie experimentation.

Onwards into the new era of smoothie enlightenment!!!

any recomendations on how to get the leftover paint out of a paint can safely and environmentally so that it can be used as a shake off can?

Well, I see no reason you should have to use a paint can, anyhow. I use a bucket, you dangle the heads inside the bucket, hold the chains so the heads don't touch the bottom and grip the side of the bucket, give it a whirl around and you've just spun off!

you can buy clean pain cans from any hardware store

dont buy new ones if you have old ones lying around:
if theres a lot of paint in it you'd have to talk with your waste disposal co. about safe disposal.
if its pretty much empty then let the paint dry and peel it off... a bit of hot water should help too.
certainly works for cleaning roller trays!

I would recommend that if you want to use a shake off can to get a new one. For me, the thought of the latex particles leftover in the can getting into my poi heads...it makes me cringe. No matter how clean you get it something will be left over.

But yes, warm water and a little elbow grease is the answer if you absolutely *have* to use an old one. New ones are cheap at the hardware store, typically less then $4 - with a lid.

I personally don't use a shake-off can. The way I fuel my tools (both poi and staff) is with two buckets and some rags.

I have a one-gallon paint can I keep inside a 5 gallon paint can. Both have lids. The fuel is inside the one gallon can. I dip the poi (or one at a time staff sides) into the fuel, and after it soaks up enough I pull it out. With my other hand I have a fresh towel, and wrap the head(s) as soon as they come out of the small bucket, but before they leave the big one.

The towel soaks up any excess fuel, and the big bucket catches any drips that may occur before the rag gets there. Fuel soaked rags are a fire hazard, so I skip the waiting period and burn it when i'm done with it - keeping it around is unsafe.

Side note - When done with my tools, I always wrap the heads in fresh terry-cloth towels.

I think this is a better way to go then the shake off can, and the 5-gallon bucket is big enough for everyone to see, so no one trips over your fuel can...(what're they doing in your fuel area anyway?)

How is it a better option than a spin off can?

You would be surprised at how much fuel you actually save by spinning off.

Pros and cons both ways. Using a spin off can I pulled a muscle in my arm and it wrecked my desire to spin fire that night.

The blotting procedure was the alternative we came to. It's not the best solution to everyone, but works very well for me and my crew, so figured i'd throw it out there for others to consider.

And I also just like to put everything in it's place and keep it there. With my way, nothing moves until it's time to put it away. I know that you can always put the can back to where it was, but this way you don't have to worry about it. Less to keep track of. Just seems easier to me all around.

As far as fuel saved - there is no mistaking how right you are about this. The fuel i'm burning on the rags after i'm done could have gone back into the fuel can and been used for another burn, or at the very least to dump into the tiki-torches. It adds up to be quite a bit over even a little while.

I believe, at least for me, the amount of fuel lost and the rag 'wasted' is the price that I pay to keep everything stable on the ground, and not risk losing the desire to spin for the night. To me that cost is small and worthwhile. It may not be so for others.

Glad you brought that up, or my reasoning would never have made it to this thread, which should have been with the original post. Thank you for putting it out there.

Fair enough, kith... though you shouldn't pull a muscle from that... you should really have warmed up with your socks prior to going the fire route, so pulling a muscle shouldnt be an issue...

Out of interest... do you do much longarm work in your poi??

You are right, I should have warmed up for it first. I imagine it wouldn't be an issue now, where before I was still getting used to more weight then a glowstick.

Now i'm set in my ways and it's easier to go with what works.

Back then I didn't know how to do very much, and what I did was very in close, since my technique came from playing indoors with glowsticks and limited space. Nowadays I try to be as big and free as I can, with flower-type manuevers and big spread out butterflies and circles.

I didn't have any socks or anything, I practiced with my fire tools. We just wrapped the heads in tinfoil and blue painters tape on the outside, then rubber-banded a rag around it tightly.

(I HIGHLY recommend a softer option for practicing over your head - hitting yourself in the side of the head with a real monkey fist wick is not pleasant.)

Moving to Poi was really a large step in my object-manipulation career, since it brought me outdoors into the fresh air and lots of space. It took me a little while to learn how to make use of all the extra freedom, and now I couldn't imagine ever going back.

Theres something about being able to use all of the space around you...and not just what's right in front of your face. Way back when, throwing it behind my head would've taken a picture off the wall or knocked a vase over or something. Now it looks cool and feels...well...free.

By the way, i'm one of those people who uses ten words when two would do fine, so don't mind the excessive rambling

You could use rubber gloves and squeeze your wicks to remove excess rather than blotting. To be fair I generally use a burnoff (staff)in shows because it stops people asking me to fire breathe because they see a big burst of fire. It's not the most environmentally kind action but is slightly better for my health and keeps the folks happy.

Ah the burnoff....little is better then 2 nukes going off on the ends of yer staff.....entirely worth the environmental displacement

A grad student friend of mine with a background in environmental science and organic chemistry recently suggested using limonene oil, the cleanser used in citrisolve, distilled from orange peels, as an environmentally friendly and relatively non-toxic fuel. He has done a little preliminary experimentation with it and found that it burns fantastically well, and leaves behind only the odor of citrus. Does anyone here have experience with this substance? Is there any reason to think twice before experimenting more, such as potential damage to wicks?

I think the orangy fresh scent would be great for indoors. Might be pricey? I know most pure oils like that might be a lot for the amount needed to burn through a show. I say experiment and see if you can make poi a bit greener. I know some of the older spinners here have gotten sick of smelling like kero all the time. To tell you the truth... after almost 6 years of spinning poi, I might be getting a bit sick of having to change clothes after doing a burn.

It's a bit pricey, but not all that much considering the potential benefits of abandoning fossil fuels. You can get it for $129 for a five gallon pail, which works out to $26 a gallon; around three times the price of kerosene. Easily affordable for some, perhaps not for others. When I first posted this I didn't realize there was a biodiesel station within 50 miles of here, since none comes up on the online resources, so that now looks like the better choice for general use. Indoor fire though, now that's an idea!