Poi Theory of Everything - An ongoing collaboration

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Introduction:

Our idea is to create a structured way for the global poi community to all collaborate on an ongoing multimedia Unified Poi Theory of Everything. It is inspired by the theory in physics that all matter and energy can be explained by understanding the link between the four most basic known forms of energy. We want to do something similar with poi. We want to see the art of poi separated into it's fundamental elements, on which all other movements are based on. Then explain the way it all works and connects through a continually evolving, community sustained, multimedia pool of information.

All the information already exists. Most of it is even already written out or filmed on the various discussion forums, articles, and videos. We want to take that information and consolidate it.

Some drawbacks we see for this are that first of all, people will argue a lot over terminology, but in the end this may help establish more of a standardization, which is good. Secondly, Everyone thinks differently. We all have somewhat different ways of understanding the various concepts within the art and this project may help establish more of a standardization, but we don't know how we feel about that. We don't want to affect the way people think without knowing what we are doing and then end up creating limitations for them. If we state this knowledge as unquestioned fact from a position of authority, then beginners may not have as much of an incentive anymore to go develop their own understanding. We have learned a tremendous amount from the work we have done already of our own versions of the Theory and we are hesitant about possibly taking that journey away from younger poi artists. While we recognize that there are different types of learners, we think that overall the best way to learn is to discover something for ourselves rather then studying too much what other people have found.

When people read this we advise that they not take our words as undisputed truth. You will gain the most in the long run if you take the time to truly understand these concepts for yourself, with only as much guidance from your teachers as is necessary for you to take your next step.

Everyone must journey in their own way, the path can not be walked for us. There are people who have explored further down the path then us, and as those early people who blaze the trail move on ahead, they can beat open an easier way for others to follow. They can leave behind signs to show the people following them which way they took. This is the essence of teaching. This is why we have all those videos and articles on how to do whatever it is we are trying to learn. They are footprints for us to follow so that we don't have to completely reinvent the journey ourselves but rather learn from the successes and failures of the travelers before us and continue on with our own understanding.

Here is what we have so far:

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Table of contents:

- Introduction
- Guidelines
- Construction Methods
- The Theory
- Concepts
- Exercises
- Families of Movement
- Variables of Movement

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aaaaaaaargh!

so, on the whoe, I think what you have done is great. but I cannot agree with:





this implies not only that we only have control over our poi movements within circlular motion, but even worse, that what we do with our bodies is irrelevant to what the poi are doing.

there're a few other points I'd like to bring up, but not sur how you want them dealt with....?

Rob, we are going to send you the log so if you want you can go in and made corrections.

As far as discussion around your point goes, while I do believe fundamental poi is based on the circle, I agree with you that there are movements that are not based on it. Got any ideas on how that statement can be reworded to make it true? Or would it maybe be better to take that bit out?

I actually hadn't begun to think about fundamental poi in terms of stemming from our body's movement. Not in the context of this project anyways. I've understood for a while how most poi momentum is an extension and result of some motion in the body. So on an even deeper level then the motion of the poi itself we could say that all poi spin is based on a sustaining of momentum given by the wrist/arm/etc. Or are we maybe on the wrong track?

I've sent a PM through to you theory, I've got a few suggestions and have highlighted them through different colour text in a word document (which I can send through regular email if OK). I think that, based on comments from others, I'm in agreement that this is a good idea. If the idea is to generate a Wiki though would it not be better to just update http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poi_(performance_art) with the info collated here or are Wiki's generally meant to be kept to a generalisation of a subject? Either way I'm willing to assist where I can

Gresk, the wikipedia entries for poi HAVE been updated and they've been dropped for getting too techy. Wiki is basically if you've never heard of it before.

I thought the unit circle had a diameter equal to the length of the poi as with an isolation rather than having a radius the length of the poi?

Someone more cluey on the unit circle specifics might want to chime in here on that one.

@ Gresk, I'll go sign in and make sure you've gotten the log in info right after this post. I'm thinking if people have corrections or suggested corrections or even alternative explanations we can add those in different colors directly into the Theory or make some sort of other note which shows that it is an alternative or "unverified" entry (if we are unsure or still thinking about it). I wouldn't bother with external documents for now. That is just my opinion on that, you can do what ever you think best for the collaboration (aside from deleting it please).

I second Stuart's comment about Wikipedia dropping the techy updates we've tried to add into their poi articles. Richee and a few others have tried to do that but Wikipedia does not want to be a instructional instrument with advanced technical jargon. We want Wikipedia to stay more true to a simple encyclopedia. Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not

@ Stuart, I think you are correct about the unit circle having a diameter equal to the length of the poi. That makes more sense. Alien Jon was the one who popularized the idea and I suppose I still don't fully understand it. I'll see if I can coarse him into coming here and fully explaining it himself but until then we will do our best. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_circle

Seeing that wiki link only confuses me further on the actual meaning of the unit circle in poi... i think it supports your definition better than my own but I feel that my definition better suits how it relates to poi theory as well as my own understanding of previous entries relating to the unit circle...

So after reading that I'm much more on the fence, but its a point I'd definitely like cleared up anyway.

I'll have a quick re-read of entries on the forum relating to the unit circle and get back to you if my views are solidified one way or the other, I think coercing Jon into posting would be a great idea, though, I think he's one of the main people alongside Richee to use that term.

that wikipedia link actually confuses me too. When you find good entries on poi unit circle m will you post links here so we can check them out?

"a unit circle (the smallest circle the poi body can make, diameter=the poi length ie an isolation, so the radius=1 unit= half the poi body),"

Is a quote from Jon embedded in a comment about cateyes.

So Danny brought this up over on the Garden and it is something I want us to consider. I've got to rush off now but I will come back to this later

A unit circle has a radius of half the length of the poi.

Think about a poi spinning normally. As you start to isolate it, the disk it is spinning in gets smaller, until you get to the halfway mark.

Once you pass that and start heading to a pure point isolation, the disk gets bigger again, only with your hand on the outside.

Unit circle diagram. I must emphasise that this is as I understand the concept. It may be wrong.

Aston, I think that is correct. I am going to put your diagram in the Theory.

I think there is a minor problem Dyami, I'm guessing that multiple logins to the one acct are overwriting each other when editing. I just added a load of changes/suggestions and published, only to refresh 5 mins later to find them all missing. I think that maybe someone else was editing the same text at the same time therefore one over wrote the other.

Hope that makes sense. I'll try again making sure to keep the same text as there is at this present moment.

Have made some amendments that need to be verified - I've used hideous colours so that you can see where the amendments are, if in agreement then simply change them to black, delete, discuss etc

Wow !!

Great OP, so that's what a lockout is..cheers.

Re the unit circle. How does this concept fit into poi spinning at all ? I could see it as some sort of fancy way of describing crossover points if one assumes the shoulder as a center of rotation, but given that we have several points we can use as a center of rotation ( hand, elbow, shoulder, isolation ) to me, it seems an idea that doesn't really "fit" into poi theory.

Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's one of those Richee-esque ideas that need a clearly defined analysis to demonstrate it's relevance to poi.

A unit circle can be useful for describing certain elements but its not useful on its own.

A perfect cateye is a 1:1 ratio antispin with a hand circle equivalent size to a unit circle, for example.

It helps to understand Richees posts a bit better because I believe it is integral to his thought processes on poi.

Jons theory of the grid of infinite circles is also based on unit circles.

You can vary your flowers to be based around a unit circle rather than a complete longarm motion and that can greatly change the look of the flower.

yeah... that doesn't sound good. Everyone who works on this should maybe check the Who's Online before they start and more importantly back up your work somehow in an external place. I've been saving drafts of the back end code in my email and I'm going to start saving them in .txt documents as well.
It would also be nice if we could establish some way of tracking changes. Like maybe when ever someone makes a major change of any kind we could announce it here? I don't know, I'll think about that some more.

We really need a real Wiki. That's all there is to it. This is only meant to be a practice draft and a place holder until the real wiki arrives.

alright, I like the idea of having in place discussions in annoying colors so let's add some structure to that.

how about this?:
proposed alterations or additions in green
in place discussion around a statement in red
notes, comments, or requests concerning the expansion or deletion of something in blue

It would maybe be good to sign and date each of these. If we like all that, let's put a color coded key somewhere in the introduction section.

Yes.

However if we use the confusion on this thread as an example of what happens when you take an existing mathematical concept and change it to make it fit into poi theory.People naturally want to expand on their knowledge by doing when they search on the term and in this case, run into a description ( eg wiki ) that runs contrary to what they've just read there's bound to be questions...like what are you talking about ?

For instance, there's a natural assumption that the 1 in the unit circle would refer to the length of the poi...right ? Not half the length, which would make the whole unit circle concept applicable to isolations only. If that's the case, then it should be stated, or possibly renamed, the isolation unit circle.



I have no idea what you mean here. Where would the center of rotation be in this pattern ?

Oh wow, 46 seconds ago. I go for a walk and get back just as you reply...

The unit circle becomes the hand path as with the cateye.

It just leads to overlapping petals, really, but its an easier way of doing it than just guessing, its a mental reference point.

I very much agree with your point and I think "Isolation unit circles" is a great idea, but thats still semi-confusing if you take it to mean an isolation unit, because then its still 1 and not half... but its much less confusing than simply "Unit circle"

I'd never had any trouble with unit circles because I first discovered them within poi, but as you say, people with a mathematical mind or quite simply google enthusiasts will come across issues.

I'm thinking Isolation Circles might be nicer but given that 'unit circle' is already in use, isolation circles may come off as a different name and create even further confusion... so I don't know why I mentioned it. Lets say its 2:30am and I'm too stressed to sleep.

I'm good with that

Excellent. I totally side the idea of the unit circle being a visual aid. IMO there should be some sort of explanation of just how this concept applies to poi included in the "Theory of Everything", just for the sake of completeness. This isn't the first time somebody's compiled a document like this and every time somebody does, it's just that much better than the previous attempts

I sure liked Max's style and approach, but this document has "more" in it.

Cheers guys.

Dudes! Question on the unit circle discussion. Is this causing more confusion then it is worth? Would we be better off taking it out of the fundamental concepts and turning it into more of a side note deeper in the page? Someone has already removed it from that "condensed answer to all poi" section.
The main reason it is relevant for me is not because of it's actual shape or definition (smallest circle the poi can blah blah) but rather that grid Jon derived from it. But even that is not a rule but really more of a guideline on one way of thinking about the movements. hence it's position in Concepts, not Moves. Personally, I rarely use the actual "unit circle" in my patterns because to me full long arm looks better.

If we are going to continue terminology discussions of this sort can I request that we move them to external posts, link to them from here if relevant, and keep this thread more on the track of figuring out the overall management and structure of the Theory itself?


I agree with that. Will you write it? do you need someone to send you the log in info?


you talking about these?

Duvan's Poi Guidebook For Everyone: homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/621063/
and Richee's Poi(Reference guide book): homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/876426/

I don't always follow Richee's logic but Duvan's Poi Guidebook For Everyone has been one of my big inspirations in the work I've put into the Theory. I would like to see that work more directly added to this one.

Yes, it was causing confusion but it appears to be resolved by describing it as a visual aid. It's my assumption that AlienJon introduced the idea and (hopefully) he'll come here and clarify just what he means. I/we could be missing something.

As of right now, I'd like to see it in the isolation's subsection as the working description is rather counter-intuitive to what someone might picture when they try to apply the unit circle concept to general spinning.

I haven't seen the grid, nor read the theory.



That might be easy to miss, especially if someone is reading an "old" thread and needs a quick reference in order to continue following the discussion. It might be worth considering that were someone using this document to "translate" an old thread, they might only read the one or two sentences related to the topic at hand.



By all means.



I'm not the best person for the job, unfortunately, I better read Jon's theory first.



Yep. I really liked Duvan's effort, but this looks "more complete" Richee's, OTOH, if found difficult to use. Say I were reading a thread, and needed a definition of a move or concept, I found it distracting to say the least to click on what I figured would be a definition only to be deposited into another discussion that may, or may not contain the info I'm looking for.

Stout... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOlCZMFIBMI

Cheers MNS

I don't know about putting it under isolations. As I understand it, an isolation defines the unit circle but the concept has applications beyond just that. Can we leave it as it is under concepts for now until we get some real clarity on it?

I think the "The answer to all poi" section is causing confusion since it includes things which are repeated latter. What does everyone think of my dissolving it into the concepts.

I'll wait a few days for response.

Adapted from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars

Wikis do not have firm rules besides the general principles. Be bold in editing, moving, and modifying content. Although it should be the aim, perfection is not required. Do not worry about making mistakes. We try to keep back up copies of all prior versions of the article.
- - Be bold: If you see something that can be improved, improve it!
- - Editing policy: Improve pages wherever you can, and do not worry about leaving them imperfect.
- - Ignore all rules: If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it.

I am going to log in and change that one title from "The answer to all poi:_(as condensed as possible)" to "The Theory, as condensed as we got it so far"

here are some notes on updates I've been making.

* changed timing information so that it is not repeated.
* If you take the same time butterfly and rotate it any number of degrees around the vertical axis through the horizontal plane, it will remain same time. If you turn the butterfly onto it's side, through the vertical plane around the horizontal axis, it becomes same time. In other words if you tilt your head and look at split time butterfly from sideways, it looks like same time butterfly does right side up.
*
in response to the green, by that definition wibbles are not contact poi if they leave the wrist, neither are anything based on tosses like whip catches, or snags. I am going to remove it.

I think the trick here is to try and envision just how this document will be used. I'm guessing that it will probably serve as a reference, or encyclopedic function rather than being a document or website that someone would use to learn poi as they progress through it. having said that I feel that a format where everything is linked to pretty much everything else revalent to the subject so someone can research an idea and get All the pertinent information without getting distracted searching around for "more"

Yeah! I like the way you word it.

That brings back the subject for me of using a "mind map" (I think they're called) as another way of presenting the information we input into this Theory. A map will give us an easier way to visually show how everything connects and relates, which is one of the major purposes of this project. My vision of the map is to make each bubble an interactive object which can be expanded to show deeper content and has lines and links to other related bubbles.

We titled this the Theory of Everything for a specific reason; which is mentioned in the introduction section but maybe should be given more emphasis. We use that title because like the original Unified Field Theory of Everything in physics, we are beginning the process of consolidating all poi knowledge as a part of a search for an answer to that mythical question, "what is it all about?" We want to break it down to all of it's most basic elements while simultaneously piecing together the entire whole in order to better understand it all.

*Disclaimer* I've been busy (in a good way) and out of touch with this thread. So I've only skimmed the discussion.

My curent stance on the unit circle concept in poi: early on I was trying to pidgeon-hole poi unit circle with the mathematical unit circle. In math it has a radius of 1 unit. In poi I've moved to thinking of it as having Diameter of 1. It's just easier and less confusing that way. In other word the diameter of the circle is equal to 1 poi unit.

At this point, I like to think of the length of the poi as one unit. This unit defines The proportions you will use at that given length to make the poi do stuff by waving your arms about with a certain timing, frequency, and spacial proportions.

At this point I like to think of the basis for physical movement of things in terms of oscillatory timing (or cycle timing), symmetry, and proportion.

This applies to anything including the human body, but the human body is such a complex system that it is daunting to systematize it and kinda takes the fun out of dancing. I do take a crack at it here and there non the less, then usually go off and lose myself in some good dancing. I'd like to point out that the motivation for movement (your body and/or your props) comes from your consciousness, emotions, thinking, feeling, etc.

So anyway it is more useful to apply those basics of physical movement to how your body can make poi move.

Poi and most other things are a matter of relationships.

Oscillation and cycle timing:
For some background, check this wiki article on wave-phase.
Ian and the Vulcan crew have a nice way of illustrating this with pendulums. A pendulum swing or circular rotation are some of the simplest cycles you can have. If you are relating the timing of 2 swinging pendulums they fall in to nice timings in 3 major ways:

• 0 degrees out of phase or in-phase, aka at the same time. They both swing to and reach the left at the same time.
• 180 degrees out of phase or antiphase (not a term I made up!), aka at opposite times. One is reaches the left at the same time that the other reaches the right.
• 90 degrees out of phase or what I've been calling offset, aka quarter-time or offset-time. One reaches the left, then the other, then the 1st reaches the right, then the 2nd. One always leads one always follows. There is chirality ("handedness") in that poi A could be the leader OR poi B could.

Sure you could use phase relationships other than 0, 90, or 180... however they tends to look like sloppy versions of the basic 3. (Dude I can spin in 16th time!)

You can apply this timing to any aspect of poi, not just pendulums or circles... consecutive stalls could be done together, opposite, or offset. You could apply it to more complex geometric cycles, for instance take a C CAP shape. Your poi can trace it together, opposite, or offset. You can hit cross points at the same time in a cycle, opposite time, or offset (Andy House touched on this in a cross point post a wile back). When you start dealing with shapes traced over time there can be correlations between cycle timing and spatial orientation. A simple example of this is a crossover figure-8 (the 8 bent into a V that we all spin). If you look at the timing of a 2-beat weaves cross-points, you see that they hit the same point in space in an offset timing. If on the other hand you spin split-time wall-plane and cross over behind you, you've crossed at the same time, but your cross-points hit 2 point in space one on your left and one on your right.

Symmetry and proportion:
Cyrille's document on geometric poi poi does a nice job of defining this.

Proportion:
I'm getting tired and will have to come back and edit this in another time. Please someone remind me to do it and keep buggin me!

Cheers, so the unit, in unit circle, relates to one poi length, check. So how dos the unit circle concept apply to poi, given that the center of rotation ( IE your hand ) is constantly moving and that center of rotation moves in three dimensions to boot ?

hey. remember those discussions back when where people were searching for a mathematical formula for the three beat weave and we got a bunch of sine, cosine stuff and the Z axis was completely ignored ?

IMO, the unit circle is a very difficult concept to apply to a dynamic system and may cause more confusion than it's worth.

Wave phase..OK, gotcha. The wiki article is rather redundant when held up to the explanation as to how it applies to spinning that you posted below it.

Chirality...How does this term fit in ? I can sorts see it however I could swing an offset timed pendulum pattern and still have it come out as a symmetrical pattern. Is this a case of trying to make a term fit into a concept, maybe by taking the term "handedness" and working backwards ?

What does Continuous Assembly Pattern mean? Yes, I googled it and it looks like something that was "locally" coined and needs a definition just how it relates to what we're doing here. Might it better to just stick with the widely accepted and recognisable term..move ?

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I can't be the only one whose having difficulty following these tech discussions and I'd appreciate some clarification as to their meaning.

I actually dont know what I'm talking about on either point, but I'm going to have a punt and we'll see how far off the mark I was later on.



In an isolation the centre of rotation is the middle of the poi (I think)

In a point isolation it momentarily is the head of the poi.

Its late... usually I'd flat out know the answer but I can't be certain while this tired.



I *think* its something along the lines of a hybrid. Though maybe the difference is that you switch between what could technically be termed two different hybrids because you're switching arm direction...

I've seen what have been called CAP patterns before, don't know the definition but from what I can gather thats as good a guess as I've got for now.

I apologise for my 100% useless post.

The above may prove an in-depth answer and I've got to get back to logistics for playpoi UK tour. Bug me about it and I'll get to it sooner or later.



LOL, yeah I found those again not to long ago. I hadn't seen that yet way back in the glowticking days when I first simulated simple move with additive waveform controllers on X Y and Z in 3D Studio MAX. I WAS using Z >_^. Actually, when I dug deep enough I found that NYC (I think) was talking about sinusoidal functions in X Y and Z.

For those a bit confused by this exchange, have your friend spin a simple poi circle in wall plane (preferably with glow poi). Now walk around to the side until you are perpendiculare to the spin plane. You'll notice that the poi head looks like it is bobing up and down tracing a line. You are watching a sine-wave. A circle can be graphed with a wave function in each of its 2 dimensions. The waves happen to be 90 degrees out of phase. Cosine happens to be the same wave as sine, but 90 degrees out of phase. So they can naturally be used in x and y to graph a circle. If you add another wave moving the poi along its axis of spin, you get crossovers and helices.





Maybe so. Ultimately what I was working towards with "the poi unit circle" was my current understanding of symmetry and proportion as applied to poi. I'll try to get to this when I reply to the 1st point.




The wiki article is only redundant for those that already understand wave phase and don't need a refresher or fresh inspiration on the subject.

I tend to link to a source outside of the poi body of knowledge when I bring it to a poi discussion, so that people can educate themselves on what I'm talking about and see that I'm drawing on knowledge from beyond the specialized body of poi knowledge that has been growing online over the years.

This is to combat the tendency to turn everything into a specialized poi knowledge specific thing, which cuts our body of knowledge of from the rest of the world if it runs rampant. I'm just looking for a balance between well-formed specialization in poi and actually cloistering new poi peeps from the rest of the world that has inspired us to get to where we are with poi knowledge.

Isn't it better to turn people on to knowledge that has driven the very existence that we live in today at every level, and say "hey poi is just another example of this sort of thing. If you understand waves better you can draw on all sorts of outside knowledge to better understand poi and think outside the poibox". (You love it Andreas)




It is perhaps easier to think of Chirality a simply meaning "handedness". However, "handedness" may mislead some people to think I'm only talking about something in the domain of "your hands".

"Chirality" on the other hand (pun intended), is a powerful abstract concept dealing with asymmetry. I'm simply using the meaning from beyond the world of poi. I'm pointing out that we can say the offset pendulum example, or a 4-beat weave, or the offset C CAP example all have the attribute "Chirality".

I included the link to wiki for those not yet familiar with the term. I'm not petitioning that we start using "Chirality" as a special poi term that has a different poi-specific and limiting definition than the word already has. This is the case with terms such as "isolation", or "unit circle" (oops). FYI when I say "unit circle" with regards to poi, I mean it as short hand for "the poi unit circle", which is a poi-specific term.





At Burning Man 2007 The peeps at OMCC (Noel, Greg, Jordan, Zan, myself, etc) really started to germinate some synergistic ideas that lead to our current understandings of poi. Damien (French_Saltimbanque) Showed up and really added to that with his explorations of CAPs. Later, on HoP he contributed to the Yuta moves analysis post. That is where he coined the term CAPs. I liked it and started using it. To me, it means taking basic "poi geometry" building blocks or fractional piece of other moves with simpler symmetry and assembling them together into more complexly layered moves. Typically this means that each part of the sequence has you change between different driving styles or building blocks.

This is a bit different from what I think a hybrid is, but there are some cases of overlap.

If anything it is a larger overarching concept and family of moves that could be labeled with a CAP attribute. I am not intending to mean "a move". It is silly to say spinning a circle over and over is a CAP, "because you are assembling a sequence of the same building bock repeated over and over again". This is silly in the same way as insisting people refer to a circle as "an ellipse who's focii are an infinitesimal distance apart".

Durbs once petitioned people to only refer to a move as a hybrid if it constantly changed which poi was doing what driving style. To me that is a form of CAP. Where as repeating an iso vs extension hybrid hand-to-poi head is a simple repeating move that hybridizes a different driving style for each hand. If you do a hybrid weave where the hands change driving styles that is a subtle form of CAP to me, but it is more highlighting of its "hybrid-ness". If you do a hybrid weave where you don't change driving styles it is not a CAP in my book.

Ok gotta go work.

Cheers Jon

I'll wait for your expansion on the poi unit circle before commenting but I'm all up for calling it the poi unit circle so its differentiated from the unit circle we all know and love from high school.

I understand your description of wave phase and it's relationship to poi, but I have to ask, are there any practical applications for bringing this into a poi discussion or is it strictly academic ?

As for chirality, I'm happy with using the word asymmetry instead, as *we* are all familiar with the term and what it means and having to research a term and ponder how it applies to poi ( while wondering why yo didn't just say asymmetry) is rather labourious and somewhat distracting.

Cheers on the CAP definition. I have no problems with this as long as a document like the one being created here has a clear and understandable definition of what the term means. I haven't looked upthread for a few days, but a description of the different driving styles would be nice in case a reader questions that term.

What I'm trying to avoid here is something I've termed "Richee Thread Syndrome" where ideas are presented and those ideas are obscured by the language used, leading to people making posts like MNS did above, full of "I think.....s" and "might mean....s" and people running with those "I think it means...this". and further obscuring the idea being presented.

If The Theory of Everything might just end up being THE defining document when it comes to poi terminology and concepts, and IMO, including as much clear, understandable information as possible will aid in it becoming just that.

I totally agree with trying to make information clear, especially in this thread. Of course that is why we discuss things before we form entries into the wiki/body of the original post.

Simple or easy ideas are simple and easy to convey. More complex ideas can be challenging to convey in a simple way, because they are more challenging concepts that take more to appreciate and experience what the ramifications are.

I often deal in foundational or building-block ideas and then build from there. A foundation is a simple thing in and of itself. It's relatively easy to lay a foundation. However if attention isn't payed to certain details and the form not measured to adhere to certain characteristics, then the house build on that foundation will be unstable and it will not withstand the test of time.

So, sometimes (well ok, a lot of the time) I bring words and concepts that need defining. That is why I try to provide a definition in my post and/or link to one, ala my link to Wikipedia. I hope that what I populate my posts with is easier for the average HoPer to decipher and find usefulness in than some of Richee's posts. (I like your post BTW Richee, even when they confuse me Just keep your pictures and diagrams hosted somewhere that i up 24/7 and the posts make more sense)



Simple answer: Heck yes! It has lead me to discovering things about poi, other props, my body and flow arts in general that tend to blow peoples minds.

Long-winded answer: Nick Woolsey got a slack line and has been progressing nicely. I've started to try it out too. Yesterday It was my 1st time really being able to maintain balance for a wile. Today I got up this morning and after some realizations was able to walk the line for the 1st time. What I realized was how my body was reacting to the line's oscillations, and because of my not only academic but experiential understanding of phase cancellation, I had a much easier time canceling out the wobbling line and keep my balance, wile shifting my weight and presto I started to walk the slack line.

I have learned to feel waves wile splashing in them, throwing and being thrown with minimal exertion in Aikido, when I am making them run through my body popping and waving and dancing liquid to musical arangements of them, making them with a guitar, in 3d spacial manipulation when I 1st picked up flower sticks 15 years ago, and of course when I started spinning poi. My understanding of waves and phase relationships is far more experiential than academic.

I'm looking for ways to illuminate what I experience, what I use to do the things that people want to learn from me. Some of this involves referencing the academic body of knowledge on waves and phase.

This is the quintessential dilemma: A lifelong musician discovers music theory through experience. When learning the academic body of music theory knowledge he empowers himself to discuss deep and subtle concepts with other musicians that understand it in a clear and precise way. This leads to new insight and growth and the experience of making new beautiful music. Of course the musician wants to use music theory to teach people what took him so long to discover. With the proper use of music theory, relationships can be illuminated that allow the student's experience to accelerate in the direction they want to go, quicker. With unbalanced focus on the academia of music theory you get an egghead musician who can appreciate Bach on an intellectual level and maybe even play his pieces with some skill, but who can't improvise and understand how the theory can amplify his own musical creativity. If this person is happy with this roll, great!

I do see the danger in unbalanced focus on egghead academia. What I'm aiming at is to illuminate relationships in poi that will help people grow in a broad and deep way. I'm trying to help people avoid barking up the wrong tree so they can get to the fruits of their labor sooner. This is a tricky one, and I appreciate people checking in on whether I'm doing a good job of it.

The point of the wave phase thing:
Practical applications. Have you ever dealt with beginners that have a hard time differentiating between same-time and split-time? Or at least making their poi spin one way or the other? Or maybe they can do some moves that are split-time and others in same-time, but have a hard time maintaining either timing for any move. I know I did when I 1st started. Once I started to play with the underlying rhythm and realize that it permeated all of what I did, I had a major level up in timing control and freedom to make the poi do what I wanted, when I wanted.
So my approach is to give a simple exercise you can use to isolate the feeling you are trying to internalize (ie swinging pendulums). Then get people to understand that these feelings can be used in ALL poi! Not only do you gain more control of what you want to do, by not taking things for granted the knowledge can lead to deeper movements that people don't always com to naturally. For instance, when you do a 2-beat weave, you take it as natural that your cross points land out in front of you and do so one after the other (offset, 90 out of phase). But what is going on is phase alignment in 3d (you want a 3d system right?). So keep your in-plane phase alignment the same as your average 2-beat weave (split-time chase), but cross your poi over at the same time. You end up placing one cross point pointing up and one pointing down. It feels weird at first.

Maybe you want to get better at wrap combos. At first I had a really hard time getting wraps to combo in the way that I wanted. Wraps are basically like playing percussion on your body. If you already understand the rhythms that are associated with the phase exercises, you can look for them in your wraps and get good at together, opposite, and offset (make sure to learn both chiralities). You may also realize that depending on the spacial relations of the body parts you are wrapping off of, your split-time spinning will turn into wraps in opposite phase, and in other cases it will turn into offset phase.



Many people's understanding of "symmetry" is actually a specific type of symmetry: mirror symmetry. In Cyrille's geomertic document he deals with others as well, as do I and many others. This wider understanding of symmetry is starting to inform the development of poi.

Many people's understanding of "asymmetry" is actually a specific type of asymmetry: chirality. There are other types of asymmetry than dissimilartiy from a mirror image. So I chose a more accurate word that asymmetry, because at some point making a distinction may be important.

Admittedly, I can't think of a good poi specific example right off the top of my head. Usually when this happens though, I eventually find a poi specific example and it leads me to new poi moves!

Cheers jon, thanks for the excellent reply.

I see now where you're coming from with introducing these concepts and there's quite a few things in there that I've never run across before.

As a for instance....when i was working on my split time, which was an issue when I was first starting out, I thought more in terms of a metronome in an effort to "balance out" the perceived extra effort my dominant hand *must* have been putting into my spinning. I hadn't thought to visualise a wave function, which on reflection, is much more flow oriented than a back-and-forth motion.

interesting to learn what is regarded as "beginners moves" these days

Poiology

First off, I don't want us to distinguish between what is beginner technique and what is advanced because difficulty really is relative to the individual and what their prior experience is.

Secondly, you bring up a good point which is that some of the material we have in this article may seem daunting to one who has glanced at it for the first time. If we scare anyone away then this project has failed. We mean to inspire, not intimidate. At this point I don't think we should denote anywhere in the article that something is intended for one level or another. I think we should approach this like an encyclopedia which serves as a reference guide that anyone can understand, not so much a manual with lots of technical jargon. We can offer more complicated ideas but we should try to always build up to them with simple common language.

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. - Albert Einstein

what do people think about changing the "concepts" section to something like "elements" or "components" and taking out stuff like performance concepts and levels. Is there another category those things could go in? Maybe a guidebook section of some kind structured loosely like Duvan's article: http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/621063/

i just noticed that the article is being truncated. turns out there is a limit to how long a post on this forum can be. that is not so good because we still have a lot of information that could be added.

any ideas on how to continue?

Shift it to a page, get a wikispace or something like that for it.

or...

have a second post?

How about we split each of the sections into their own posts? I think that will also allow us to create a table of contents which is a feature I've been wanting to add.

we could leave the introduction section where it is at the beginning and below that make a table of contents where all the items are links to the individual posts:

Introduction
Table of contents:
--
- Guidelines
- Construction methods
- The Theory
- Concepts
- Exercises
- Families of Movement
--

Any one have any objections to that? This is a big alteration so I'd like to hear some responses from the group before one of us goes in and does it. Wait a week or so maybe.

I don't know how to shift to a page.
I am looking for a free wiki that will work.

I am going to do it

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sock poi:



Ingredients:
- find a pair of long (about knee high), different colored socks that are strong, have a little bit of friction and are not very stretchy. Ideally you also want them to be brightly colored, have each poi a distinctly different color, and have some kind of stripe to mark their middle. Sports socks are easy to buy and work well.
- 2 size 16 or 14in balloons
- 2 size 9 or 12 in balloons
- 2 rubber bands
- enough rice so your poi are a comfortable weight (commonly somewhere between 120-160 grams each)
- enough sand to equal about one fifth the weight of your rice (around 30 grams)
*note: total weights do not have to be exact as long as the poi are equal to each other.

Steps:
1. put half your rice in each of the size 16in balloons and tie off.
2. place the rice balloons in the bottom of your socks.
3. spin them fast a bit to stretch out. they loose some of their stretch over time and you will have to adjust them less later if this happens now.
4. put half your sand in each of the size 9in balloons and tie off.
5. hold the head (bottom) of your poi in one hand and bring the top end to your shoulder. place the sand balloons in the sock at that spot just before your shoulder. The general rule for length is that while holding the handle, the poi should reach to somewhere between your elbow and shoulder or alternatively the distance from your hand to the middle of your calf. This way they will generally not hit the ground or your chest. Dependent on the style of the spinner this can be varied to produce different visual effects, longer poi for graceful, slow display and shorter for more dynamic/technical performances.
6. twist the sock tightly above the sand balloon and fold down.
7. place a rubber band below the sand balloon and fold up.
8. done, go play.

contact ball poi:



fire poi:

Tubeecores (as Stout called 'em): Probably the original fire poi wick design. They are constructed in much the same way that staff wicks are still most commonly made. They generally have a lot of exposed metal.
homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Pair-of-25inch-tube-core-fire-heads



Cathedrals: Each layer is secured by whatever the attachment hardware is, making them the most durable wick. There is usually a washer and a bolt sticking out the bottom which is not so good. The ends are tucked under the second to last folds.
luxotica.com/education/howtomake/poi.php
8stars.org/a/firemaking/wicks/

Monkeyfists: No exposed metal on the wick itself. They have a nice cube/sphere shape. More surface area (bigger flame) and more material (hold more fuel) then the first two designs. Will unravel after abuse and if not made tightly enough. The end is secured by the knot.
firemecca.com/t-tutmf.aspx
youtube.com/watch?v=MXdHcH3FRcM
renegadejuggling.com/Web_store/rev3k/index.html



Flat wick Lanyards: holds more fuel then the first three. Secured the same way as cathedrals. Less surfaces area then the cathedrals.
laneyards.com/
firemecca.com/p-887-moonblaze-fire-poi-set.aspx

Rope wick Lanyards: One of the most versatile designs out of all the knots used for wicks. The way Salza secures their ends is to thread them back through the loops of the lanyard. Also no exposed metal on the wick itself. These have the most surface area (because of all the bumps) and generally use the most material for the same weights as the others (so hold lots of fuel).
laneyards.com/
salza.se/product.php?p=106
homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/860047/Re_Are_these_Isis_poi.html#Post860047
scoubiguide.co.uk/circle.html



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Poi spin is a sustaining (or breaking) of momentum given by some form of kinetic energy given by the body (usually in the movements of the wrists or arms) and that spin's relationship with gravity or some other external force.

The most basic motion of the poi itself is based on the circle traced by the head of the poi with a radius of the poi length and a center of rotation at the handle. At the most basic fundamental level, most of poi spin is either an expansion or contraction of this circle.

Centers of rotation: The point around which the poi or pattern is spinning. This is most commonly either the middle of the poi (i.e. an isolation), or at the shoulder (i.e. a long arm extension).

All movement exists as ways of traveling within and changing between geometric planes. The three basic two dimensional cut sections of three dimensional space are sagittal, coronal and transverse. In poi we commonly refer to these as side/wheel, wall, and horizontal.
The Axis of a plane is the cross point of the poi as they move from one side of the axis to the other.

The poi can spin in either the same direction or opposite direction as each other.

plane changing/bending and direction changing both use the same three basic methods. One is to let the poi drift from one plane to another by moving the handle. The second is achieved by using stalls on intersections of planes. When stalls are done on the intersections of planes, they can go either back into the plane they came from, or move onto an intersecting plane. The third method is to use wraps.

Two basic timings are same time and split time. In same time the poi both hit the down beat at the same time. In split time the poi hit the down beat at alternating times.

Beats are most commonly counted by the down beat which is the moment when the poi are closest to the ground.

Concepts to still be incorporated: cross points, body turning/rotation -- linear isolation - linear extension - compound circles (spin and anti spin) -- inversions - in swings -- atomics -- Polyrhythmics -- hybrids -- behind the back -- transitions -- interaction - partner moves -- dance and performance concepts -- contact poi - reels - pendulums - under the legs - tangles - tosses -

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-- Anti-spin: Poi spin in the opposite direction as the arms.

-- Beats (weave, corkscrew, windmill): Commonly counted as the moment when the poi are closest to the ground. Determined by how many spins the poi make before the pattern repeats.

-- Behind the back moves: almost everything that can be done in front of the body can be done behind the body

-- Cat-eye: A one beat anti spin. Named after the elliptical/oval shape traced by the poi head. * Unsure about if that definition is accurate.

-- Center of rotation: The point around which the poi or pattern is spinning.

-- Combinations of moves:

-- Compound circles (flower patterns and fountains): A multi-beat separation in which the poi make smaller circles within a larger circle. Poi continue to spin around the hands while arms move in extensions; smaller center of rotation (at hand) moves around a larger center of rotation (at shoulder). "Flowers" are compound circles in which the arms are split time, where as "fountains" are same time. With clean split time both poi will pass the arms at the same time. Opening the body up to each side helps. Count the petals rather then the arm locations.

-- Contact poi: set of moves in which the poi handle is not in contact with the palm of the hand.

-- Changing direction (and planes): stalls, plane bending, wraps

-- Crossing the axis of a plane (your body): In a basic two beat body cross (which reels are based on), poi go through the same bent figure eight motion regardless of what plane it is done in. The arms, hands, elbows and wrists rotate however have to bend in different ways depending on what axis you are crossing. I recommend spending anywhere from a few weeks figuring our how many different ways your hands move, including how your elbows and wrists rotate.

-- Dance and performance: speed, timing, levels, foot work, facial expression, posture, body position, arm position, rhythm, body alignment, awareness, technique, focus, emotional protrayal all require to be taken into account when performing.

Directions:
In the side plane the poi spin either forwards (the poi are a wheel and you are rolling forwards) or backwards (you are rolling backwards). overhand/inward (wheels spinning towards each other; the poi are coming down your mid-line) or underhand/outward (wheels spinning towards each other; the poi are coming up your mid-line).

-- Extensions (unit circle and long arm): unit circle - hand traces the path of an isolation while the poi head moves in extension. long arm - entire arm moves with the poi, putting the center of rotation at the shoulder.

-- Foundational:
Concepts: unit circle, planes, cross points, direction, timing, centers of rotation,
Moves: reel, lockout, weave, butterfly, thread the needle, corkscrew, buzzsaw, air-wraps, stalls, crossers, wrap, tosses.
Major variations: forwards/overhand, backwards/underhand, same time, split time, vertical, horizontal, anti-spin, extensions, isolated, rotation (pirouettes, barrel rolls, spinning around really fast 180-360+ degrees), poly-rhythmic, fountain, atomic, inverted, linear isolation, linear extension, hyper extension, line isolation, under the legs, behind the back, pendulums, floats, windmill, spiral wrap, wibble, hyper-loop

-- Freedom of movement and expression:

-- Isolations: the handle and head of your poi move on the same circle around a center of rotation in the middle of the poi. Practice holding just one poi stretched between both hands, and rotating it a circle. It feels like your pedaling a bicycle with your hands. Focus on keeping each hand next to the other poi head.


-- Levels (ground to air and everything in-between. leaps and rolls): Commonly expressed by dance orientated poiisters as ‘Exploring your space’

-- Linear extension:

-- Linear (handle) isolation:

-- Line isolation/ linear head isolation: poi head moves in a straight line



-- Negative space: comes from painting, referring to the white space in a picture which also makes a shape if you get rid of what's around it. For poi, its about having the poi travel through a shape you made. so maybe you make a simple circle with the poi and then have it travel through it via plane bending. inside arm circles also qualify as negative space moves.

-- Neutral position: static spin (poi keep spinning but the hands can stop moving) position which any move with the same timing and direction goes through at some point in their pattern or uses when moving from one orientation to another.

Both poi on same side of body on parallel planes (one slightly further away then the other) with arms just over a poi length apart (so that closer in poi will not hit your other arm).

Any of the combinations of timing and direction can be applied to the position as well as other major variations such as centers of rotation.
Once we recognize that possibility we can take any of those variations and do them in any plane and on any given side of a plane: front and back wall, left and right wheel, high and low horizontal, and in any arm orientation we can bend them to as well. For example in the front wall plane the arms can be horizontal uncrossed, vertically stacked, crossed one over the other horizontally which is something useful for the wall plane flower or isolation patterns.

The hand orientation then doesn't particularly matter (meaning the hands could be vertically stacked), and the parallelness of planes aren't terribly important either but the hands do have to be spaced such so that the poi do not hit which is what allows it to be an indefinitely static spin position.
\homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...html#Post889602
homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/889333


-- Planes: A sagittal (wheel) plane is a vertical plane dividing the body into left and right portions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittal_plane. A coronal (wall) plane is a vertical plane that divides the body into anterior and posterior (front and back) sections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_plane. A transverse (horizontal) plane divides the body into superior and inferior parts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transverse_plane. All of our movements techniques are simply various ways of moving within, and changing between these planes.
The axis of the three planes are cross points. These axis can be moved to give us different sub-planes which things like the buzzsaw, and air-wraps are on. Moves which many people consider to be the "basic" set like weaves and reels are based on the deeper fundamental principals of crossing these axis. The poi themselves sit on "tracks" (as Nick Woolsey calls them) to the sides of the axis.

Then there are also the relative planes which move depending on what direction you are facing. Any move can be done in any plane. A weave, for example is not defined as a side plane move. Thinking of it that way is actually incredibly limiting and if it where true we wouldn't have access to a huge range of movement. A weave is a spit-time move in which the wrists wind up on one side of an axis, then unwind on the other. Weaves done in the wall plane give us things like waist wraps and the weave fountain. When they are done in the horizontal plane they give us things like corkscrews.
A different example are air-wraps. A basic two beat air-wrap moves the axis (cross point) of a plane away from the original mid-line of the body (Just like weaves, tangles are based on another fundamental concept of winding up on one side of a plane, then crossing the axis to unwind).

-- Plane bending: poi drift from one plane to another by moving the hand to a new plane. * this is an unverified concept and we are still working on it's definitions *

-- Plane changing: poi move in to a stall on one plane and come out of the stall on a different, intersecting plane.

-- Plane control (how to maintain and bend):

-- Rotation: turning from side to side (180) or all the way around (360). Basic turn: as you turn around cross the poi to the other side of your body. Carry Turn: place the poi in a fixed point relative to your body and pirouette 180-360. Rotation is not restricted to just the whole body but also can be employed at each pivotal joint, shoulder, elbow, wrist etc; all combined to produce different effects.

-- Stalls: A change in momentum. In geometric terms, a stall is a tangent line of the circle. There is only one stall. The differentiation is where you go into it from and the force of gravity will give a different feel to the stall depending on where off the circle it is done.
For example in a simple up stall, the path that the poi makes is kind of like a "J". Imagine taking that "J curve" of the stall path and rotate it around the vertical axis to make a three dimensional sort of cone shape. This three dimensional parabolic cone with j-curve sides models all the possible paths of a stall. That is why stalls can be used to change planes and direction.


a stall is a three dimensional shape. The path that a simple two dimensional up stall makes is kind of like a "J". Take that "J curve" of the stall path and spin it around the Y-axis (vertical axis) to make a three dimensional sort of parabolic cone like shape. This three dimensional parabolic cone with j-curve sides models all the possible paths of a stall. That is why stalls can be used to change planes and direction.

To do the plane bending/point isolation stalls we are moving in a momentary point isolation while stalling. Since the center of rotation becomes a single point at the head it allows us to move the handle end of our poi to any new position within the sphere, within the duration of the stall. One example is to start by spinning underhand (poi coming up your mid line) butterfly in the front wall plane. Go as if you were going to do an up stall but as the poi begin to move towards the stall point, bring your handles up with the heads so that the poi end up curving away from you and by the middle of the stall your entire poi are horizontal. Then pull the stall back down in the other direction just as you would an up stall by bringing everything back down your mid line into the flat wall plane.

-- Transitions: Everything is everything is a different direction (simplified). All poi moves share common positions with other poi moves. The essence of transitioning from one pattern to another is finding those common positions. See "neutral position."
A simple example is changing between forwards and backwards weave. In both forwards and backwards weaves the poi go through a point where they are unwound and on the same side (I call that position lock-out). From that neutral position the poi can be taken in either direction.
Another example I like is transitioning with stalls. Vertical stalls can be done from both same-time, same direction spinning and from same-time, opposite-direction spinning.


-- Unit circle: "a unit circle (the smallest circle the poi body can make, diameter=the poi length ie an isolation, so the radius=1 unit= half the poi body)," - Alien Jon

alternative explanation: The smallest circle a poi body can make, it forms a diameter equal to the length of the poi. So the radius=1 unit=1/2 the poi body.

alternative explanation: "A unit circle has a radius of half the length of the poi.
Think about a poi spinning normally. As you start to isolate it, the disk it is spinning in gets smaller, until you get to the halfway mark.
Once you pass that and start heading to a pure point isolation, the disk gets bigger again, only with your hand on the outside." - Aston



-- Unit sphere: * I think we should take this out. It was speculation and I don't think it is going to go anywhere. http://techpoi.tribe.net/thread/the full three dimensions *

-- Timing: same time - poi hit the down beat at the same time. split time - hit the down beat at alternating times (one hits down beat while other hits up).

* Note: Opposite direction spit time is same time turned (rotated vertically) 90 degrees. For example, if you take the same time butterfly and rotate it any number of degrees around the vertical axis through the horizontal plane, it will remain same time. If you turn the butterfly onto it's side, through the vertical plane around the horizontal axis, it will be like looking at same time. In other words if you tilt your head and look at split time butterfly sideways, it looks like same time butterfly does right side up.

-- Variations:

-- Wraps: A wrap is where some length of the poi encircle some part of the body. In a basic arm wrap the poi tether is allowed to wrap around the arm or wrist before a change in direction is forced to allow the tether to unwrap itself.

-- Wrapping up: hold fingers out so poi cord can wrap, spin in the other direction to unwrap. crossing to the other side of the body is the same effect as changing direction.

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- Planes: Spin slowly to let poi fall. try to feel the weight of the poi and where the moments of tug and suspension are. spin against a wall or in a narrow hallway,

- Use cross points for weaves

- Move across the floor: find the ground, reach for the roof, leave floor, emulate characters (ninja, ooze, wind, birds, forces of nature, etc.), forget about the poi (see what you can do without thinking about it to much), be silly, be dramatic, be nonchalant, be energetic/ exuberant, be sacred, experiment with speeds, levels, directions, distances and positioning of body parts,

- Spectrum of major stall variations: vertical down, horizontal underhand, vertical up, horizontal overhand.
in same direction and opposite direction, in same time and split time, in wall plane, side plane, or horizontal plane, from regular and anti-spin,

- Spectrum of range of movement: Leave poi in one location as you turn your body around (you could also leave your body planted and move the poi with plane bending). When doing quarter turns the major positions are:
-- crossed around the front to the back wall plane
-- crossed in front wheel plane
-- uncrossed in front wall plane
-- uncrossed in wheel plane
-- uncrossed in back wall plane
-- crossed in back wheel plane
-- crossed around the back to the front wall plane

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http://www.spherculism.net/poidia/select_term.php

--Butterflies:
Foundational components ~ opposites

Description ~ poi spin opposite direction, with hands next to each other on the same side of a plane. The name is derived from the pattern traced by the poi head emulating the flapping of a butterflies wings.

Build up and things that help ~ same time: one hand is on top of the other and the hands bob up and down. split time: hands bob side to side.

Variations ~ overhand, underhand, same time, split time (wicks meet at sides instead of at top and bottom), extensions (entire arm moves with poi in butterfly motion), thread the needle/ punch through/pet the arm hair (2-7 beat), one handed, behind head (top hand leads so becomes bottom behind head. move hands like you are swinging an ax), neck wrap, butterfly weaves, isolated, behind the back (keep elbows and palms turned up), waist wrap, air-wrap, hyperloop,

Notes ~

--Buzzsaws:
Foundational components ~

Description ~

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ vertical, horizontal, isolated, fountains (moves in a circle on the wall plane), somersault, inverted, spiral wrap, behind the back, under the leg,

Notes ~

--Contact poi: this is a broader family of movement then most of the other moves in this section.
Foundational components ~

Description ~ family of moves in which the poi leave the hand.

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ tosses (backwards from backwards SP, forwards from backwards SP, horizontal from backwards SP, under the arm in WP, behind back WP, horizontal from horizontal), wibbles, propellers (traveling - head to handle, sustained), snags (hold head and handle of one poi creating a loop which holds handle of other poi), whip catch (toss one poi and tangle it with the other. "Suggested prerequisites: To be very comfortable with air-wraps and throws. To get into a whip-catch, it's similar to an air-wrap - but one poi is flying through the air when you make contact. To get out of it, keep experimenting with different throws, different speeds, different cross-points of the two poi, etc... to find out how/where the tangle comes undone, and how to control it. You're normally best off starting in same direction, split time (as with an air-wrap)."), tangles to one handle tosses (tangle poi, let go of one handle and swing out),

Notes ~ homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/395111/

--Corkscrews:
Description ~ poi spin horizontally, crossing above and below arms.

Build up and things that help ~ start by bringing one poi up first and then follow it with the other.

Variations ~ same direction (h. windmill), opposite direction (h. butterfly), 4 beat, extensions (fully extended arms, arms up at right angels, hands meeting above head, arms crossed, one arm crossed, arm flapping - helix), TTN, matrix, spiral wrap, open (hands apart, more of a reel), closed (hands together, more of a two beat weave)

Notes ~

--Crossers:
Foundational components ~

Description ~ poi swing from front to back with arms crossed. Bad description – Needs to explain that the poi are on the front and rear wall planes but passing between the two or words to that effect.

Build up and things that help ~ use the sway of your body rather then moving your arms.

Variations ~ same direction, opposite direction, behind the back, inverted (Straightjacket), crosser pirouette/360, arms on opposite sides of body, fountain, 360 fountain/ barrel roll,


Notes ~

--Flowers:
Foundational components ~

Description ~ also known as compound circles. poi continue to spin around the hands while arms move in extensions. smaller center of rotation (at hand) moves around a larger center of rotation (at shoulder).

Build up and things that help ~ Extend out in one direction at a time (i.e. forward-backward, up-down) and hold the spin there, go from one petal position to another. With clean split time both poi will pass the arms at the same time. opening the body up to each side helps. count the petals rather then the hand positions.

"Let your shoulders be loose and relaxed. Pinch your chain or handle. Do a 10-50 pedal flower in the beginning. Move your feet, when left arm is in front of you then the left foot should be in front as well, the fewer pedals the faster foot work. Practice with two poi, if you hit yourself remember that weak point in the flower and fix it for next try, focus and presence. Spin slow. Sometimes it helps if you close your eyes, don´t spin with your eyes to much, you have 5 senses, use them and especially when spinning. Don´t stress.Keep spinning, more bruises, make sure to enjoy" - Nevisoul.

Variations ~ plus petals, diagonal petals, wall plane, wheel plane, opposites, same direction, same-spin, anti-spin, Olle's triple composites, 3-8 petals, triquetras, atomics, plane changing,

Notes ~

--Hybrids: variation not a move
Foundational components ~

Description ~ poi do different things within the same pattern. isolation-extension, anti spin-extension, isolation-anti-spin, isolation-cat-eye, cat-eye-extension, pendulum-extension, pendulum-anti spin,

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ 3-5 petaled anti-spin-extension (poi opposite direction, hands same time-direction. The triquetra hybrid threads (meaning poi change which hand is on top) twice), same direction isolation with extension (hands same time-direction), one handed Trifoil-extension,


Notes ~

--Inversions:
Foundational components ~

Description ~

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ vertical buzzsaw, horizontal buzzsaw, butterfly, crossers

Notes ~

--Lockout:
Foundational components ~

Description ~ adding static beats to a pattern; an interruption of a pattern; stopping your arms in a movement so that you get another circle where there might not normally be.

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ split time (poi pass each other when horizontal between your arms, one going up and the other going down) or same time, same direction or opposite direction.

Notes ~ homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/889333/

--Partners: not really sure if this should be it's own topic in the moves section. it kinda makes more sense as a variation or concept
Foundational components ~

Description ~

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ face-to-face, back-to-face, back-to-back, cross-stance, side-by-side

interlocking moves split to each side (each partner does one side/hand of a move):

weaves (in wall plane at each side, opposite or same direction, same or spit time), thread the needle (in side plane at each side), spiral wraps in side plane, spiral wraps in wall plane, buzzsaw spiral wraps, hyperloops (wall plane), air-wraps, corkscrew,

inside 4 beat weave (facing,

poi cross around each other:

butterfly, butterfly shoulder-hip reels, same direction shoulder-hip reels 180 around each other, corkscrew matrix, arm wraps,

stall around each other:

vertical stalls into butterfly hug, skip and stall (step and spin twice then stall for two counts, reverse direction and repeat), stalls around arms in side plane (from same direction, same or split time - one partner stalls over arm while other stalls under arm. from opposite direction - one poi stalls over arm while other stalls under, partner does inverse),

back to back:
back to back weave (side planes), back to back weave (180 wall plane), face to face behind the back weave, face to face behind the back waist wrap (180 wall plane weave), back to back weave to front side waist wrap to trade places, buzzsaw back bend, thread the needle back bend, back to back horizontal buzzsaw rotating, barrel roll extension

superimposed patterns ("standing one in front of the other, the front picks the pattern and the back does something to compliment it"): superimposed flower patterns,

passing:

tossing, pass from weave (one set),

- Same direction partner weave (each of the partners are in same time to themselves, spit time to each other). Focusing on one partner at a time, one of their poi does Under-Over-Back while their other poi does Over-Under- Back. In the wall plane their poi are going the same direction but relative to the partner weave they are doing forwards on one side and backwards on the other.
- Opposite direction partner weave. Over-Under-Back with one arm while the other arm does Under-Back-Over.
- 180 degree rotation in the weave (with their arms sill around each other).




Notes ~ Partner poi and improvised interaction. I want to see poi become interactive the way social dances such as salsa, waltz, and tango are. Where dancers come onto the floor all knowing the same moves and cues as each other and can play in that same kind of close proximity.

--Reels:
Foundational components ~

Description ~ poi move from side to side of the body, and always stay on different sides from each other. (Same time hip reels can be carried out on the same side of the body – in contradiction to the statement – Isn't Chasing the sun is the usage of reels on the same side of the body?) Open to discussion.

Build up and things that help ~ Start by spinning both poi forwards same-time in your side plane for a few beats. Then turn around so that your poi are now spinning backwards same time (Remember that the poi do not change direction relative to their position in space, it is only you that has turned around. If someone had to be watching you do this from down stage the poi would keep doing the same thing regardless of which way you are facing. Some people get confused by that).

Turn back the same way you came from to end up again in forwards. Repeat process until comfortable.

Next do this by only turning your upper body to your right and left and leaving your feet planted. You want your poi to always stay on opposite sides of your body. Repeat until comfortable.

Next do this by only bringing your poi in front of and behind you, leaving your body stationary. When you bring your poi to your back side wall plane at your hips, you will have more range of motions if turn your elbow outwards. Repeat until comfortable.

Next do this by crossing your poi from front to back every beat.

Next is to repeat that whole process in the other direction, so say if you where spinning forwards on your right side, change it so that you are spinning forwards on your left and backwards on your right.

Next is, on the up swing of your poi (what ever side that is) bring your poi up to your shoulders and repeat the whole process.

Next, do all that with the poi spinning opposite directions.

Variations ~ hip, shoulder, same time, split time, same direction, opposite direction, crossers, meltdown, windmill (above head),

Notes ~

--Pendulums: these are a type of stall
Foundational components ~

Description ~ poi swing back and forth without making a full circle around the hand

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ low, high, extension (opposite/same direction), 1.5s (hybrid of pendulums and regular spins. one unit circle apart (poi heads meet), zero units apart (hands together)), btb 1.5, waistwrap 1.5, butterfly 1.5, pendulum hybrids

Notes ~ A pendulum can accomplish many of the same practical purposes as a stall

--Polyrhythmics: not sure if this should be called a move. Is it maybe better in concepts? I think for a topic to be considered a move there has to be a way of doing the move on it's own with out conjunction to another move.
Foundational components ~

Description ~ each hand does a different number of spins in same cycle. i.e. hybrids

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ speed-bumps, thread the needle (done with forwards poi),

Notes ~

--Stalls:
Foundational components ~

Description ~ A change in momentum. For further theory on stalls see the concepts section above.

Build up and things that help ~ Once the head reaches the quadrant point You need to explain quadrant points before this section just before the one you want to stall in, move your hand to that point and follow the straight line path of the poi. Doing isolations or extensions in the beat preceding the stall will help make them cleaner. After the stall reaches its apex, tug the poi back in the direction they came from (if it is an up stall, tug it down) and from there either go back in the opposite direction, continue on in the original direction, or change planes.

To do the plane bending/point isolation stalls the poi move in a momentary point isolation using the apex of the stall. Since the center of rotation becomes a single point at the head it allows us to move the handle end of our poi to any new position within the sphere, within the duration of the stall. One example is to start by spinning underhand (poi coming up your mid line) butterfly in the front wall plane. Go as if you were going to do an up stall but as the poi begin to move towards the stall point, bring your handles up with the heads so that the poi end up curving away from you and by the middle of the stall your entire poi are horizontal. Then pull the stall back down in the other direction just as you would an up stall by bringing everything back down your mid line into the flat wall plane.

Variations ~ Spectrum of major stalls (by relative difficulty): vertical down, horizontal underhand, vertical up, and horizontal overhand. These can be done in any combination of plane, timing, and direction.

stall combinations with both poi:
same direction same time, same direction split time (when on same side of a plane: inside arms, outside arms, arms crossed), opposite direction (when on same side of a plane: inside arms, outside arms, heads meeting, hands meeting), corners w/ mix of h and v meeting outside from opposite direction or inside from split time same direction, from buzzsaw, kick stalls (boarders on being a wrap), pendulums (a short stall below the horizontal plane), floats (floats can be done from either a pendulum or a stall and exited with either), plane bending,

Notes ~ Stalls can be used to transition between planes.

--Tangles:
Foundational components ~

Description ~

Build up and things that help ~ with any tangle, the poi need to be on slightly atomic/perpendicular planes in order to intersect. Tangles are much easier when both sides of the nexus (tangle point) are equal because then the momentum of each poi is even, marking the center of the poi will help with this. In order for your poi to intersect, each poi has to be on a slightly different (perpendicular) plane from each other so that they will be able to cross each other's path

Variations ~ air-wraps (from lockout, from butterfly. can be done from outside to inside or from inside to outside. They tangle and then untangle, there is no point in which your are tied up and cannot come out, if you do a continuous airwrap, it tangles then untagles every beat. As arashi says, theres no polar point.), hyperloops (horizontal side to side, front to back, vertical side to side, up and down, split time same direction, same time opposite direction, split time opposite direction. Air-wrap on one side of your body, bring the nexus (tangle point) across an axis, and then continue on to the other side of your body to let the poi unwind. It is the same principle as with any concept in poi that you wind up on one side and unwind on the other. An air-wrap in the wall plane (in the simplest sense) is a two beat tangle that moves from outside to inside. A hyperloop takes that tangle and moves it a further distance before letting it unwind on the other side.), btb hyperloops, orbitals, whip catch (toss one poi and snag it with the other),

Notes ~

--Under the legs:
Foundational components ~ cross points/axis

Description ~

Build up and things that help ~


Variations ~ stalls (from same and opposite direction, same or spit time), from behind (SP or WP), from in front(SP or WP), box step, box step (same side), one under, both under,

Notes ~

--Weaves:
Foundational components ~ wind up on one side, unwind on the other.

Description ~ split time move where poi cross each other while moving from side to side.

Build up and things that help ~ in forwards each hand moves in this pattern: over-under-back on spit timing. in backwards that pattern is reversed: under-over-back.
is that better?

Variations ~ forwards, backwards, extensions, 2/3/5/7+ beat, butterfly weave, isolated weave, fountain, behind the back, above head (vertical), lockouts - bring poi apart between the "over" and "under" beats (then isolate that), archers - one arm extended and other poi at shoulder, inside weave (poi come between the arms for a beat), waist wrap (180 rotations back and forth in the wall plane, in front or BtB), 180 rotation, 360 rotation, atomic weaves (perpendicular vertical planes, inside weave, side plane with horizontal plane), not 1.5 beat weave (from three beat weave, poi meet and travel together for half a rotation. high pendulum on crossed or uncrossed side),


Notes ~

--Windmills/Pinwheel:
Foundational components ~

Description ~ a split time same direction reel above head.

Build up and things that help ~ same motion as the corkscrew but vertical instead of horizontal. poipoi.info/tuition/tuition-windmill.php

Variations ~ extensions (full and half), 360 (pirouette), 180 (half turn), 4 beat, fountain (using 4 beats, high behind head, low in front), isolated

Notes ~

--Wraps:
Foundational components ~

Description ~

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ basic wraps (head wrap. on thigh from vertical, shin from horizontal, arm, wrists), other arm, same arm, other wrist, spiral wraps (entire length of poi wraps. at hands, one at wrist, at fingers), butterfly spiral wrap, horizontal spiral wrap, horizontal spiral wrap around ankle, buzzsaw spiral wrap, horizontal body wraps (poi wrap horizontally around waist), through wraps/carryovers (poi wind up on one side and unwind on the other without changing direction. multiple beats follow a similar principle.)


Notes ~

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Guidelines:


If you want to collaborate on this project, log in as 'Theory of Everything' with the password '6Inspire' to make changes. If anyone has any further ideas, descriptions, learning advice and methods, diagrams, photos, videos, links, et cetera, please do contribute.

Ignore all rules; If a guideline prevents you from improving or maintaining the project, ignore it.

Be bold in editing, moving, and modifying content. Although it should be the aim, perfection is not required. Do not worry about making mistakes. We try to keep back up copies of all prior versions of the article. If you see something that can be improved, improve it. Improve pages wherever you can, and do not worry about leaving them imperfect.

When making in place discussions on the project:
proposed alterations or additions in green
in place discussion around a statement in red
notes, comments, or requests concerning the expansion or deletion of something in blue

When you create a new category post, link to it in the table of contents.

Respect your fellow poi artists even when you may not agree with them. Be civil. Avoid conflicts of interest, personal attacks and sweeping generalizations. Find consensus, avoid edit wars. Act in good faith, never disrupt the project to illustrate a point, and assume good faith on the part of others. Be open and welcoming.

Recognize that material can be changed by anyone and no individual exclusively controls any specific information; therefore, any writing you contribute can be mercilessly edited and redistributed at will by the community.

Do not distinguish between beginner technique and advanced because difficulty really is relative to the individual and their prior experience.
Some of the material we have in this article may seem daunting to one who has glanced at it for the first time. If we scare anyone away then this project has failed. We mean to inspire, not intimidate. We want to approach this like an encyclopedia, which serves as a reference guide that anyone can understand, not so much a manual with lots of technical jargon. We can offer more complicated ideas but we should try to always build up to them with simple common language.

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--Atomics:
Description ~ any move in which each poi is spinning in a plane at 90 degrees to that of the other poi

Build up and things that help ~

Variations ~ weaves (inside vertical, vertical, vertical with horizontal), flowers (vertical arms atomic- vertical poi atomic (wall plane and side plane), vertical arms parallel -horizontal poi parallel), Box (each poi is at 90 degrees to the other but the centers of rotation are separated enough so that the paths of the poi only meet at the edges of their circles i.e. as if the two circles were sides of a box. http://www.spherculism.net/poidia/view_term.php?term=4

Notes ~

--Beats:
Description ~
Build up and things that help ~
Notes ~

--Direction:
fundamental components ~
Description ~
Build up and things that help ~
Notes ~

--Extended:
fundamental components ~
Description ~
Build up and things that help ~
Notes ~

--Isolated:
Description ~
Build up and things that help ~
Notes ~

--Pro-spin/anti-spin:
Description ~
Build up and things that help ~
Notes ~

--Timing:
Description ~
Build up and things that help ~
Notes ~

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