Save Home of Poi

I have HoP as my homepage yet moment I open Mozilla and it loads up I instantly click on something else. I don't know why I'm not around here much anymore. Things just feel different.

Obama said tehre was going to be change....you didn't think he meant America did you?

That's hysterical!

Okay, Mal is planning updates and changes. I worked on them with him. I don't know all of what's planned but I do know it's a huge overhaul that won't be up until next year.


I think it's a culmination of alot of reasons. I'm on several other groups as well, one for magicians, one for buskers, one for dancers, one for jugglers...and they are all slow, and have been. I agree with Flynt and the fad shift. I've noticed more interested from way younger (as it 8 or 9 yo) over teens and adults over this past selling season for us. If that is reflective of more wide spread trends, then of course they'll not be on here or at meets, or posting so much in social.
And I 8th what other people said about being busy.

The "fogies forum" isn't any more busy than the social discussion.
Tech, I believe, is actually seeing the most traffic, which I think is awesome. (note: I'm not saying it's alot, but def more than chat or disc.)

In the end if you really think there is a problem, then wouldn't the best solution be to put up more interesting posts that inspire discussion or joking or..whatever the forum calls for? Seems the best way to bring up action is to take action yourself.

Someday somebody's gonna have to explain why my name keeps coming up in association with the recent vibe, given that I have been here minimally or not at all during the time frame in question. (Mike brought it up elsewhere as well..)

If HoP had gotten better in my absence, then I could see how it might have been related.

Granted, this is the third time that there has been a denial that I single handedly destroyed HoP but I don't even know why it would need to be denied if I had a very valid alibi for the timeframe in question: I wasn't here.

If HoP sucked three years ago, then it was at least partially my fault.

[I really wonder what the heck happened while I was gone...]

In serious, on topic conversation, I do think the lull in certain communities that were very influential on HoP has led to a decline in posting.

I also think that there is a diminishing returns thing going on in the Technical Aspect as well which is causing some of the "Jedi Trickle Down" excitement to wane.

Well said..I wrote a big ol' post of suggestions last night then ixnayed it figuring it was nothing more than useless gibberish

So...are these arts in general experiencing a general slowdown ? I'd say so, based on what I've seen in the local scene.

Maybe, but I use a couple of other forums that show no signs of slowing down. Well, one other forum actually because the second one keeps banning me and I've run out of email addresses

Do you figure that adding all that Myspace bs that people keep complaining about would increase traffic. I dunno, I don't Myspace, or Facebook I just use teh internets for forums.... and my ongoing research into college hotties.



What ? really ? you figure they'd die of boredom just frequenting this section.



Yea, I know what you mean. I made a conscious decision to avoid all that stuff, preferring instead to devote my time to deciphering threads in the moves section. It wasn't until I was here a year or so that I figured out the secret was to read Coleman first, he was like the rosetta stome of poi moves.

I'd second the comments about the weather impact in the UK, and possibly round Europe- there do seem to be less newbies around, both online and round the place- and the rubbish weather has got to have an impact on that..

A lot of people seem to be making comments I think are pretty telling- dividing the forums between 'Old Members' and 'Newbies'.. and thinking of what makes people join, and what makes old members drift away.. but there's quite a few people who don't really fall in either camp- I've been here around three years, but I doubt anyone's counting me as an old member..

I do think the gap here is pretty big, and that is part of the problem. New people start (though there don't seem to be so many around this year) but not so many hang around.. There seems to be a bit of a 'status' thing going on with some people, which really doesn't encourage anyone to join in.

just an fyi...I merged the two threads, so if they read a bit...oddly, that would be why.

Hey look mate i don't really know what you are going on about but basicaly what i was trying to say was that it is stupid that people bring those things up and that as sombody who was not directly involved in the drama i didn't even notice.

Basicly who cares, it was nothing most people had no idea any thing even happend, so why keep and attacking and calling some big conspiracy card to keep youself in the spot light?.... nobody cares.

i agree with hamamelis, ive been here for about the same time and dont feel like an integral part of the community, partly because I've not met many people on here, and partly because I'm a bit of a lurker...

Perhaps other people are just being lurkers too? Or maybe its like learning to spin - there are so many moves being created/learned and then theres a straight period where you dont seem to be able to learn/create anything.erm...does that make sense?

I am wholeheartedly with Flynt on this issue. People change, people lose interest and people move on. I personally lost the 'spark' for spinning about two years ago, but I still go on here keep in touch, and I go meets occasionally to catch up with lovelies. But I don't post nearly as much as I did when I first joined.

I don't believe that anything has caused it, I think it is just the natural ebb and flow of things.

It's a shame though, but life goes on.

HoP stopped being a tight nit group; a caring family.

Now members no longer see the people behind the names and avatars - they just see others as names on a screen.

Back in the day it was personal, and that's what made us work.

I have been a lurker for the last year but before that I posted all the time. I can only say why I no longer post on HoP and theres a few reasons that have nothing to do with ebb and flows or trends.

One big reason is the whole "do a search" thing. Even if something has been talked about before that automatically kills the potential for conversation. It takes any enthusiasm out of it for the original poster so they don't post on whatever link is put up and no one posts after it as well, I got fed up with that. Whats worse is after just lurking for a year I decided to give HoP another go and look what happened.
Clicky

I got linked to a video that had nothing to do with what I was talking about and another link, which killed the discussion I might add, that was 14 pages long. I for one don't have the time to sift through it all to even see if it applies to my original idea. Telling people to do a search all the time scares them off. I know that I think long and hard before posting here anymore and I usually decide not to out of fear of getting told to do a search and finding I wasted my time.

Something else is the cliques that exist around here. HoP is like high school to me, theres the newbies/freshmen up to the old-schoolers/seniors. In there we also have the cool kids all the way to the nerds. There are bullies and gangs on these boards who all team up and pick on people, I for one have been ganged up on numerous times around here.

That brings me to elitism...A perfect example is the fact that the cool kids now have their own private area, that sickens me! I've been here for about three years, what does it take to have access to that area? This is supposed to be a community but apparently HoP endorses devision and separatism, how do I get to sit in the front of the bus??? Giving some folks exclusive areas is not community behavior. There has always been an air of "I'm better than you because I registered before you" around these boards. It reminds me of my punk days when unless you were born punk you weren't punk, same rings true here. A lot of old-timers around here come off with the attitude of "I've been a spinner/twirler/manipulator/whatever longer than you so I'm better than you". No one is born doing these things, we all started somewhere, but that attitude makes people feel invalid and it seems next to impossible to get in with the cliques. So it ends up being just a few people doing the majority of the posting around here.

I don't know....maybe it's just me...

I agree, I've always hated that approach. Three years ago it did have some merit as there were sometimes several threads active on the same topic, but since "the slowdown", about three years ago, It has indeed been a conversation killer. Personally, I've tended to respond to the OPs, even if there was a do a search command posted right below it.



I agree, but that's to be expected though, seeing as how several people here actually know each other IRL. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but it's not unreasonable.



I could see how you might think that, and it was for that reason I objected to the creation of " The Seniors Lounge" but it's worth revisiting the motivation to do so. Back when it was notices that there was a slowdown, A poster had this idea that maybe the reason was because some of the older members were intimidated by the unfamiliarity of all the new people showing up and were most likely not posting because the site had become somewhat "unfamiliar".

So the lounge was created to try and lure those members back here in hopes that they may reconnect with the site somehow. So it may appear elitist, it wasn't created in that spirit. FWIW the idea failed and it's pretty slow in there.

I agree with loki about the separate area for older members... you are taking away the opportunity for discussion with these people it is like segregation... Take away this area and you might find that people then post with us leading to more interesting and different convocations which people wouldn't have in there local area so much which in turn make people post more...

I also think the weather this year played a big part in the down turn defiantly in the UK... Play being cancelled etc.

Maybe there should be Hop meets set up in each country kind of thing because not everyone can make it to NZ so why not bring HOP to them? I am sure it would boost Traffic and sales etc.

Also as the art form has less people coming into it these days.. i think everyone who loves this art forum has a responsibility to introduce new people to the art forum to continue it running workshops or similar. don't get me wrong I am sure many people still are doing this but it would be good to see more as us guys are the ones who give enthusiasm to people.

Personally i think the reason i don't post here so much any more is because the topics are not there to reply too. I still post new topics but at the same time i cannot comment on events happening in NZ, America, Australia etc as i don't really have the full idea what's going on. Maybe this is just showing the lack of English/European posters these days i dunno but i feel its a issue to me personally which is a shame.

In summary i love you guys each and everyone and its up to us to continue to make hop better. Just my two cents on the issue.

Thanks for listening.


p.s: I think this may be my first post which is got the correct spellings lmao

I still check on HoP, every day...but for certain reasons, unless I see some of the people I know on here, I don't post.

Now, for those reasons...

Over time, I noticed more and more 'American Bashing'...first, it hurt my feelings...after that, it just started to p*ss me off...it's one thing to express your opinion, but another, entirely, to attack a whole culture for the shortcomings of a few.

There were a select few who were doing this and I won't name any names, but it got to where I'd not even want to click on the 'community' link because, no matter what, I couldn't keep from seeing if someone had posted the latest version of hatred.

I know this happens everywhere and regardless, HoP will always be near and dear to my heart. I've made some great friends here and I did, after all, meet my sweet hippie here (ye, ye...mush...sorry)...but it's kind of hard to ignore when people you've come to know make assumptions about you, just because of where you were born.

That being said...lots and lots of *hugs* to all my new friends who, regardless of my nationality, are still willing to welcome me with open arms and not judge me by my country, but by my character.

Just had another thought maybe a majority of the problem is the fact that this forum is mostly slack hippys who go hmm i will reply to that latter and never do... lmao

wibble, so busy, stress, stuff, arg..
can't spin due to karate ligament injury too

Losing PLaY really, really hit quite hard aswell.

Still missing everyone 's

you called people outside the seniors lounge "plebs".

maybe that kind of attitude might be part of what has made it less personal.

it seems ridiculous that you can say things like that on the senior members section then post about how HOP is less a "caring family" on the main part.

*raises hand*

erm loki, not wanting to nitpick, but the post on the post I made on that thread did not contain the words 'do a search'. I simply said it *might* be the thread you're looking for.

As someone who's been on HoP for a while, I have a fairly good memory for the old (usually extremely long) threads. The value in posting links to old threads in new threads is that you create a more logical series of connections through the website.

IF someone comes into that thread who doesn't know what a hyperloop is, they then have a link explaining the term, and a selection of other connected ideas: useful/not useful?

So you see, I'm only trying to help you but other people as well: if you chose not to post after that link that's your choice, but please don't put the blame on me for the death of your thread.

*Sigh* and here we have part of the problem with HoP: stuff gets taken waaaayyyy too seriously, with regard to questions of ownership, cliques, politics, activity, etc. Of COURSE there are cliques with people who know each other. Of COURSE they have in jokes. And OF COURSE people move on with their lives as they get busier and busier (with things like mortgages, jobs, kids, etc). Remember it's *just* the internet and thus all completely open to (mis)interpretation: try not to take it so seriously

I for one will say that meeting people in real life is VERY different to meeting them on HoP: personally I've never been much good at internet chat and prefer to do things face to face. We need more smaller meetups in the UK at least. I don't know what happened to the Clapham meets this year

we just don't have enough hugging these days

or skinning up

If you were to check out the threads discussing the existence of the seniors lounge, you will find that from word go I was against it. 100%. I also copped a lot of sh!t for being against it, even though I'm privvy to it.

Now this is where I'm coming from. You see my name. You don't see me as a person who was against the elitist segregation of HoP that turned it into elites and plebs.

Don't put me in the group of people that wanted to be placed above everyone else, because I never did.

it doesn't matter whether you were for or against the extra forum, it was how you referred to people outside that forum. it seemed slightly hyprocritical to talk about HOP not being a caring family when you made that comment.

i can accept it might have been a one-off and i hope its not the general feeling amongst those that are in the seniors section.

i'm sure it can be difficult for older members as they have seen tons of people register but not stick around, its not surprising that "do a search" gets said so often. but if older members don't see younger members with any respect then there's no opportunity for them to become friends and part of HOP's caring family.

That's still my point though: you see my name in text and assume that "plebs" means "I think people who aren't in the seniors lounge are unworthy". You don't see me and remember what I was fighting for and that when I use words like that I'm highlighting the divide that I was speaking out against.

that sounds really tenuous, but if that is why you said that then fair enough. maybe a better use of language in the future though because you can see why that might offend.

I personally think the site is way un-organised and is using outdated software in the social/community/information areas.

We need new thinking in order to move ahead.

Yes the "do a search" comments even scares me. In real life even if I have a dictionary in front of me I will still ask someone close by how to spell a word just for the chance of a social connection, sharing a joke or for building a friendship.

We need to come up with some guidelines on treating people who ask questions. I am interested in your ideas?

In my life I believe "No question is a stupid question" and answer as best as I can with utmost respect. It would be great if everyone believes the same as I ask a lot of stupid questions . Maybe we should be banned from saying "Do a Search"?

Numbers visiting the site is still up on previous years.
Which is why we have to make it a more pleasurable visit.

Shop sales are way up on the previous year (up to 50%)

MySpace and YouTube have had an effect both good and bad.

There are many reasons why we are upgrading the non-shop parts of the site.

We aim to enable easy access to..

Information
Education
Resources
Events
Support
Photos/Videos
Fun
Friendship

Things will get better.

I certainly have a great crew of people supporting me, and they all see a bright future for HOP

Much love

Malcolm

I'll actually vouche for Rouge simta. She was the biggest, and loudest ;), opposition to the fogie forum.

But all this proves is LazyAngels point of (mis) understandings and (mis) communication.

This is the internet. All we know of each other is what we share and the tones we read *in our own heads*, thus implying that the tone we are reading is accurate to the intention of the poster. We do not, and can not, know each other completely through a forum. HoP had the luxury of being a forum where there were "pockets" of people close together, so there was a familiarity. HoP also has the luxury of being a forum based on something very portable, so many of us have been able to travel and meet others (for the better or the worse). This allowed us the ability to become close knit rather quickly. Early on we also had causes and causes make people come together. Between "fire rights" to numerous injuries to setting up "meets", well, I could go on.

Now here is where I am going to become more unpopular than I already am.
Ever hear the phrase we reap what we sow?

The "do a search" did become quite, overwhelming, and it did in fact chase people away.

This is far from the first time cliques have been brought up, and in fact complained about. Now, the issue with the cliques is that they were not contained to their own threads. There was alot of hijacking going on, and that is a huge deterrent. When asking a serious question and getting nothing but joke or snide answers, what would keep a person coming back?

Fyrespirit is right, the anti-American sentiment. Have you noticed how few US-ers post on here, despite the fact that the US is one of the biggest areas of sales traffic for Malcolm? In an ideal business/marketting model, the primary users of the forum should reflect the primary sales areas. And yet, it doesn't. One can ascertain from this that the anti-US sentiment would serve as a deterrent. I've learned to avoid those threads like the plague, but Fyrespirit is an example of someone who's been on the forum forever ;), who is a knowledgable contributer, and a phenominal personality to have on here who has been chased away, to a degree. It's a really sad, sad thing and I know he's not the only one who's felt it.

There is also a chastisement tone, which quickly become frustrated or almost hostile, that's been taken in many threads dealing with newbies, most commonly with the topic of Fire Breathing. This frustrates me to no end. Instead of helping to educate them and answer them they are instead told "No, that's dangerous, don't do that." Instead of guiding them and helping them to either making safer choices or doing it as safely as possible if they insist, we chase them away and leave them to potentially more dangerous devices. If they can get that tone from figures of authority in their own lives, why should they return here to get it even more? They are looking for guidence and instead get slapped with a book and told to read it. This is completely contrary to the helpful, informative, supportive nature that HoP once had.

I am also noting that while people are pointing out the silence, I've still not seen those people post up new food for thought and discussion in the forums outside of this. I view that as also being part of the problem, not the solution. If every person who is in this discussion feels like HoP is "dieing" were to post a new thread for chat, for discussion, and then check the others put up out, do you not think that would help breathe life back into HoP?

We reap what we sow and none of us are guiltless. It's a combined effort to create a community, and moreso to keep a community vibrant and alive. If it is viewed that HoP is dieing, then it is because we let it.

Yes, weather is an issue.
Yes, life and moving on are ever-present, and they should be, that's the point of life!
Yes, misunderstandings, miscommunications and such happen.
Yes, this is a "hobby/fad" based community and by nature will continue through ebbs and flows, just as all fads do.
Sure the bb needs updating.
These are being addressed.

However, perhaps instead of looking to outside sources for blame, perhaps we should simply look at how we present on here for solutions. Which is a long way of saying (note: the following is said in a tone of absolute jest) quit complaining and post a new thread already!

Just from a

LazyAngel there are many ways to say "do a search" and to me having two of the three responses that I got be links to other threads says it well enough. I understand that you were trying to be helpful but the thread did indeed die after that. Also that thread was posted in the advanced poi area so I don't think clarification as to what a hyperloop is is needed in threads in that location. I know you were trying to be helpful and maybe I'm oversensitive to these things but thats how it made me feel.

Rouge I agree with Simta on this one. Using a term, which is commonly derogatory, to refer to the rest of us non-elites puts any defense of us you did right out the window. It's like when Michael Richards said he wasn't a racist after his explosion on stage. See here if you don't know what I mean. Using separatist language to refer to people just makes the gap between us grow not close. The best thing you could do in our defense is not participate in the exclusive area.

Shout it loud, I'm pleb and I'm proud!!!!

i don't think there is a need for that, i don't mind the fact there is a separate area.

Hm, maybe the thread search instruction thing is a bit overdone, but at the same time, nobody is going to answer the exact same question every week.. Sometimes, telling someone new to search when you know a virtually identical post thread has been posted recently is going to be a lot more helpful that just leaving it- there's sort of a 'recharge time' during which everyone gets a bit sick of repeating themselves (even though it is to a different person). Just please, say it nice, suggest 'Hey, there was a really similar thread a few weeks back- try the search button up top' don't say 'Do a Durbs'..


By the way Rougie- I don't mind you calling me a pleb. I am a pleb. I eat ketchup sandwiches..