Boy, 7 breaks into zoo and feeds anilmals to a croc.

Hi Stone

I can appreciate how you don't see a difference between pets and food animals the thing is,,,most people can and do and I figure this distinction is the basis for all the outrage.

I'm aware that this fat feline hairball sitting in my lap as I type this is a tasty meal for someone in another country, but speaking from a "western" perspective... I have a hard time relaying to the idea. Cat is however, well aware that if I ever find myself in a survival situation where he's the only source of food...he's dinner, but he's also aware, that should there be a worldwide meat blackout, I'm going vegetarian and will gladly share my broccoli with him.

I don't know anyone who hunts for the trophy, but I do know a few who hunt for meat. Hang on..lemme check the yellow pages for taxidermists......yep, one only n a city of 350k ( same as one only gun store ).

I spent a winter, once, in a small northern mining community and everybody hunted. It was all about the meat and there was a big fuss about one particular guide who was escorting rich tourists on trophy hunts using helicopters. Public sentiment had it that this guide was in it for all the wrong reasons.

Aside...I know a woman whose mother had both her pet dogs stuffed after they passed on. Apparently her cleaning lady didn't notice and only after months of cleaning around these things did she finally make a comment about how quiet they were.

I was actually meaning natural predators when I made the red in tooth and claw comment. Locally, those would be cougars and bears.

Uh Oh...Steve Irwin...now I'm going to be talking like him for the rest of the day. For sanity's sake, I'd better not take Stout jr. to the petting zoo

Can I ask the anyone who has children in the age group of this child whether your kids would pound something to death with a rock? Kids are more than capable of making informed descisions at that age.

Can people please stop dancing on the moral high ground about vegetarianism?

I'm sure there are plenty of threads for it already.

Back to the topic:

I agree that this is a future little serial killer. The kid's blank expression makes me think that even more so.

Thought the croc was hungry and so fed it? What do crocs in zoos normally eat? Slabs of meat? That wouldn't look like a recently-bashed lizard, so if it's mimicking adult behaviour - why was it done differently? Plus, as someone previously said, it doesn't explain the beating in lizards' heads.

He probably did grow up in a terrible home environment (which makes me think that prosecuting the parents won't do a thing) and it would be interesting how many serial killers have similarly bad home environments.

I do agree to rehabilitate the kid - but how? Foster homes don't exactly have a reputation of a 5-star hotel.

Not sure, guys - as in the "school shooters" thread - we're dealing with a great exception here. IMHO the kid needs counseling, urgently so. Apparently he's not been able to make an informed decision - which would not automatically imply that he becomes a serial killer (just as attending sports doesn't).

Life's not a single lane one way road... at least not to my perception... I haven't seen the vid and a blank expression in his face would rather be preferable to laughing and giggling while committing the act. Maybe he grows up to one day be the one preparing food animals? (i.e. to be a butcher)

(Now if some claim that a butcher indeed is equal to a serial killer - gimme a break please...)

Kids can usually make distinct decisions at age 7 - but still very limited and only up to a certain extent - which is one of the reasons of (increasing) youth violence. There are myriads of possible reasons why he did what he did - even though I don't want to be a spoiler: all we do here is random speculation... most likely we will never know the backgrounds, which is what I oppose at the sensationalist press coverage (most likely the footage will never be seen on YouTube as to protect the child's identity, however).

I'm with Stout's definition of food and pet animals to the average urbanist. For a farming kid it's far from outrage that the pet is bred, raised and then slaughtered (sometimes treated under immense inhuman conditions, without even a trace of compassion).

Here we have two colliding stereotypes: that of pet animals, under the protection of a zoo (where live animals are fed to predators after the audience has left the premises) and that of a 7yr old child - who is supposed to play the sweet one, not to pair up with zoo keepers, farmers, animal transport truck drivers, butchers, soldiers, surgeons, cops and what not else... all who have to deal with suffering on a big scale and who have to professionally detach from what they are dealing with.

That kid is either far behind emotional development - or way ahead... or he's suffering from an emotional disorder, maybe abused, maybe witness to animal farming and slaughter day-to-day.

What do I know?

If you want to render your experience of adults administering death to animals, go to the cities slaughterhouse and to the section where they kill the cows - try to approach the guys working there and then invite them to a beer in the pub on weekend or visit them in their homes - maybe you get the idea of how the human mind is able to switch off the "compassion" department when necessary... and to switch it back on when the job is finished, to become a family member again.

Amen to that Tom.

Reading all the posts i kept thinking about the boys who abducted and killed Jamie Bulger age 2. They were older than 7 - 11 and 12 i think - but still a dispassionate review of their home-life in the Guardian revealed an environment of bullying and a strict pecking order - Dad bullies eldest, bullies next down etc etc. The boys were youngest or next to youngest. Whilst that in itself wouldn't cause them to kill, it certainly would have anesthetised them to the suffering of others (people and/or animals) as they had had to devlop such coping mechanisms to survive their family life.

He definitely needs counselling, help and watching - and loving. But it's all too easy to get incensed and shout 'Something should be done' especially in the press.

My heart goes out to him to be honest - how does he get over this?

Rouge, the high moral ground is all yours. Tribal council has voted and they want blood. Though, I don’t know how you can decide that someone is a “future little serial killer” bases on a kids blank expression after looking at a few seconds of crappy CCTV footage.




Perhaps the kid was Aboriginal, given that this is outback Australia we are talking about, and not down town suburbia.

The future little serial killer is more to do with bashing animals' heads in an then feeding it to a croc. And I'm not the only person to have said it.

are you including rats and mosquitos in that?
Yeah, in a perfect world, there would be no need to keep animals in captivity, but most pets would not survive in the wild, and I personally believe a species is more important that an individual's right to a doubtful 'freedom', with all the disease, parasites, hunting by predators and, depressingly often, humans, which entails. I know from experience that most zoo animals that break out of their enclosures will, unless there was a bullying issue or they were very new, as soon as they've calmed down, try and break back in again. I don't think most animals that are cared for well suffer from a life in captivity. Animals don't go for idealism.

Animals that are not cared for well are, obviously, a different story.. but I'll stop before I go too far off topic.

It’s a very simple statement. I think all wild indigenous animals should be protected. What’s wrong with wanting to protect native species?

As far as the rest of the question goes. Mosquitoes are insects, and I’m not getting drawn into the vermin debate again.

it sounds like this kid is disturbed, and it is a sign he could grow up into a very dangerous or troublesome individual without counseling.

I know a girl who growing up lived next door to a kid who was known for torturing and killing pets from the neighbourhood. it went on mostly unchecked and when the kid was 12-13 (memory doesn't serve me to well) he broke the switch box at a rail passing and put the switch in a halfway position causeing a VIA rail passenger train to derail. Thankfully no one was killed which is extreamly lucky. there was a lot of demand for the kid to be tried as an adult (he tried to murder hundreds of people) but he ended up getting a bit of time in a juvy center and some probation and seek counseling. now he is older, and still getting into trouble with the law for torturing animals. I fear he is a time bomb.

I think children who do things like this need careful counselling when these types of behaviours start, before it leads to something greater.

Sure a lot of people do horrible things to animals when they are younger and they don't all grow up to be psychos, but many of them do. 7 years is a bit old to chalk this behaviour up to him being younger then the age of reason. Unless he has some developmental issues, he is old enough to know better in my opinnion.

Ouch - now that's been the least of my intentions Interesting that most of them keepers are veggie... noted.

How is that with Zoo's outside Europe (as the incident took place in Australia)... Regarding the attitude of visitors towards the feding of life vertebrates to predators, I found an interesting article, which I would like to share:



What makes an insect so much different to other animals? Are they animals 2nd class? On a sidenote: personally I consider myself a "flexivore"... I gain the impression of double standards when it comes to this topic. On another sidenote: I stopped killing mosquitos, as long as they are in small numbers and not inside my room. The reason why I am still (regretfully) killing mossies is the possibility of getting infected with Dengue or Malaria and the fact that they tend to sting a few times in a row, instead of taking one solid slurp of my juice - wich subsequently causes un-necessary suffering on my side.



Okay, again: no offence meant and deeply regretted

When looking at Zoos I understand that we need to make a distinction. Yet I would assume that those outside the western world do have different standards - please note "assume"...

How do zoo keepers live with the knowledge of keeping animals far away from their natural habitat? I mean look at Cheetas, Lions, Leopards - how do you justify to yourself to keep them in captivity? That always has puzzled me (same with Circus'). Maybe you can get me the right idea?



Ouch, now that is something I strongly object. They did great outside an animal park, just before humans came and "shelterd" them. I understand the protection of endangered species - but why do we need zoos for that, rather than protecting them in their habitat?



This I don't doubt for (in western zoos), whereas there have been reports of animals that suffered a lot from being kept in cages or aquariums...

Now I need to stop or this gets far too long. As to close this post: Really no offence meant, only worded not sensitive enough I guess

It's not a simple statement at all, if you reserve the right to pick and chose your own exceptions. Meerkats are treated as vermin in the countries they're from (little pests, steal chickens..) Insects are animals. Animal doesn't just mean 'vertebrate'.

On my way to work right now, I'll try get back to this later...

why do people consider meerkats vermin? I don't know much about meerkats, but as I understand them they are much like racoons and fox's combined in the ways they can come to interfere with human settlements.

It doesn't take much to protect your farm or homestead from fox's and racoons. Most farmers here in canada love racoons and fox's, and sure they will trap and kill them when they cause to much trouble, they also appreciate them as living creatures. Not treat them like vermin like they would consider true nuisance animals like crows, ferrets fishers, mice etc..

I find it perplexing people are so jump to classify wild life as vermin.

Im no vegetarian, I have eatten food I hunted, but I also have a kinship and respect for all animals.

hamamelis, you read a lot more into my statement than was intended. What I was thinking about at the time was - Mammals in danger on the planet of the doomed.

You said earlier that many pets would not survive in the wild. This is simply not true because pets like cats and dogs gone wild cause havoc with endangered native species. I think this is a people problem not an animal problem.

If meerkats are a problem in their homeland, then obviously nature is out of balance, and the only the only way to fix the problem is to restore the natural balance to the ecosystem. Perhaps this is where in-situ conservation is better solution rather than ex-situ conservation.

Not the faintest idea what meerkats eat, but I can see how they'd meet the description along with foxes and racoons (what I understand of what racoons do anyway, we don't have them).

They're pretty omnivorous, very fond of eggs and young chicks- they also burrow a lot, which makes them very unpopular with farmers. I got that description from a South African farmer, who was trying to sell stuffed (real) ones, and didn't get why that wouldn't work in the UK very well when toy ones sold so well.




Well, for one thing, as I've said- animals are not idealists- they don't read books and get all worked up about their own rights- and if they look content, and act content- and breed, personally, I reckon they probably are content. Really, the more you see the reality of animals in well-cared for captivity, the more you realise animals don't react the same as us, and do not have the same desires, or the desires we think they *should* have. With a few exceptions (migratory species, for example) so long as animals have a territory that's their own, food, water, a mate, and a hidey hole/climbing area/somewhere to dig, depending on species, they don't really *want* anything else. Some smarter animals will get bored, and need things to play with, and for things to change a bit (not too much) every now and again. Remember, that list is what they'd be struggling to acheive their whole lives in the wild, and it would need to be defended.

Very few of the animals in zoos in the UK are taken from the wild- I'd say about 95% are born in captivity- and, as I've said, will actively try and break back in if they escape (and it's amazing how often, when fights break out or when youngsters reach the age they'd normally 'leave home', that animals do escape- you suddenly realise they could have done it all along, but never felt the need to..) . Out of the final 5%, I'd say 3% are 'rescue'- orphaned by hunters or confiscated by customs from smugglers, or unwanted pets and only about 2% are intentionally captured. In recent years they have been pretty much exclusively from animal populations in imminent danger of being wiped out. Yes, the ideal would be to protect the whole ecosystem in situ, and that happens as much as possible- but especially when it comes to predators, it's understandably very hard to persuade people living locally that they need to live in order for the system to have a chance of regenerating in the future- for example, one of the species I used to work with was the Madagascan fossa (nothing like that Madagascar film, they're gorgeous slinky, solitary animals, and an amazingly strong animal for their size)
As the human population of Madagascar has exploded since western medicine reached the rural areas, the forested areas (despite the local traditions of respecting nature) have been devestated in order to grow food (I believe the population has gone up around 400% in the last 50 years, it's pretty scary really..) and suddenly the fossas have nowhere to live- their normal prey, lemurs, are getting rarer and rarer- but are at least able to live in reserves happily near humans- so they've been moving closer to the villages, and changing their diet to hunt chickens, and livestock (and they have been recorded as attacking children..)
Yes, replanting the forests would be the best option- but there's a lot of people, and nowhere else for them to grow food. It's a very poor country, there's no way any ecotourism could develop for a nocturnal and very very hard to spot osbcure predator- though there are schemes trying to protect the animals in their native habitat- I really cannot see how leaving the fossas living near villages (which were the ones caught up to start the breeding program) to be shot be the villagers- who are, after all, only doing what they need to to live-is a better alternative than breeding them in places where people will pay money to see, which can then be used to protect their wild relatives, and when (if..) the current problems are over, they can be re-released..


Oh, and Well, yep, this is true- but the majority of individuals will die. There's a reason why you don't see mobs of wild chihuahuas terrorising the streets..
Even in the most sucessful re-release schemes to date, where animals are gradually weaned off supplementary food, only about 85% of them have survived until the end of the program- but those who do will generally have young who can cope a lot better- it's normally the second (and third.. and fouth..) generations of introduced species which cause the problems. Animals used to being cared for just don't recognise predators- and have no fear of hunters.. and aren't used to hunting for their own food so can starve, because they've never had to try very hard before.. Cats cause havoc largely because they are fed by people, but still live semi-wild- they can live at much higher population densities than any natural predator.

Well, one thing is that animals don't have much of the capacity to be idealistic - it's much about getting food and not become eaten.

Humans are the only ones who change their environment in order to survive (to that THAT extent), the others simply adapt. Whether or not that is a good thing, I don't quite know (looking at the problems coming with it). However humans chose to walk that path and that's what it is (for that instant in time). If we wouldn't know better, we would all feel as 'content' (or fate-struck if you may) and not change much. I've just been to Delhi, hey that looks like a bunch of people who don't change too much about their environment right there...

Even if animals would get all worked up about their rights - what would that help them, facing a bunch of shotguns? We just happen to have the better equipment when it comes to defend our territory.

Just because a species breeds, dosn't really mean that they are "content" - even when kept in captivity. I strongly oppose that notion. Life has a tendency just wanting to perpetuate itself - no matter what the consequences - up to a certain saturation.

If I wouldn't know ... my girlfriend, maybe I wouldn't miss her around? Thus, if a Cheetah has never experienced the hunt and running at it's pace - how should it miss it? I only remember that black panther in our zoo, the way it was walking up and down and that mix of sadness, anger and resignation in its eyes. But maybe that's only been my projection.

I have to admit that I'm split on the subject of keeping animals in a cage - no matter how much it resembles its natural habitat. Maybe I get too much reminded of people, living in the captivity of a socio-economic system...

But that's getting too far offtopic now.

Thanks for giving me an idea of how zookeepers cope, if I was to post some of my other (sarcastic) thoughts, it would not help to keep you calm.

As to the extinction of species: so far nobody really has an idea just how many species there really are on this planet and as far as I'm informed, all but 5% of the species that ever existed on planet earth got extinct in the past few million or so years. Don't get me wrong, I am *pro* wildlife conservation - a lot more than it might seem. And for that I agree that more people need that scheme... yet I fear that (as in Madagascar or anywhere else) the own (comfi) survival is always more important than that of others...

MG how far did I get off? need rest

I do believe most species can be just as content in captivity as the wild, with a lot of good zoo keeping done. Many zoo's don't have skilled enough professionals, or enough space or enough money to do the job. So animals aren't as content as they could be.

But most respectable zoo's know how to keep their animals from atleast being malcontent.

I have been around domestic dogs my whole life most dog owners don't even try to make their dogs as happy as they can. All dogs are individuals, and all breeds have unique issues. For example a lot of people have high strung dogs that never get enough excersize, many shepard dogs are never as happy as they can be unless they have free reign of the country side like in a far.

But the dogs aren't unhappy, they just aren't as happy as a pig in $*%^. This is the way I see zoo animals. I know my dog fiends for any chance he gets to be off leash in the woods, he's not happy with dog parks as much as he is with the wilderness.

A tiger is content if it has a god habbitat in a zoo, but im sure it wants for more, even if it was raised in captivity. It may be considerably content, but part of it desires the challenge of stalking it's prey over miles of jungle and pounceing on it. But the tiger is still happy. and because of it is a zoo tiger, it will be unhappy or even dieing if it has to learn how to hunt in the wild after knowing nothing but a zoo.

A good book I read recently that discusses a lot of stuff about zoo's is life of pi. It's just an amazing book period, I reccomend it to anyone.

It's one thing to get upset, and call for the public execution of a child because he feeds a lizard to a croc. A pretty natural thing to do in overall scheme of things; we all feed our pets, right. Mind you, I didn’t see any signs saying "Do Not Feed the Animals". However, I think most of it has to do with a basic lack of understanding of animals, especially wild animals kept in captivity.



hamamelis, I find that line of reasoning disturbing. It’s the same argument farmers use to justify battery hen egg production, keeping cows chained to milking machines and producing hamburgers in squalid feed lots down in Manitoba.



Dunno about chihuahuas, but we do have wild dog problems in Australia.

wild dogs



Well, then perhaps they should shut down those zoos.



railspinner, being around animals a long time does not an expert make. Dogs are basically grey wolves, a pack animal. If they are unhappy, it’s probably because their owner doesn’t understand that a pack needs a leader. And get this, dogs don’t need that much exercise.

Im not claiming to be an expert, im qualifying my experience with dogs to demostrate where I derive my opinion from.

a lot of "experts" are ridicilous. I saw a documtnery about chimpanzee's one time where they claimed chimpanzee's are the only animal smart enough to use a false alert call to trick it's mates into running away from food or something it wants.

Ive seen dogs go out and start barking, just to get another dog to run out and start baring at whatever the first dog is. then the first dog runs in and steals the second dogs bed.

If you rely on experts for what they know, then you don't know much

many experts claim a dog can only really learn about 40 diffrent commands.

It's not difficult to train a smart dog 200+ commands if you are good at training dogs and have a passion for it.

dogs aren't basicly a grey wolf. Their are tons of diffrence between grey wolf's and dogs. How do I know? I have been around lots of dog wolf mix's, and the behaviroual diffrence are completly obvious to anyone who is familar with dogs.