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The voluntary human extinction movement

      
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#867127 - 31/07/08 09:30 PM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: Doc Lightning]
FireTom Offline
Stargazer

Registered: 20/09/03
Loc: here and now
...which directly led to seizure of private property and the beginning of WWII, as the Nazi government had insufficient funds to finance all this employment...

Which directly brings us back on topic:

In theory many ideas have good intent, practically it's not quite as easy. Certainly it's a very strange idea for the currently dominating species of this planet, a race with so many opportunities, to think about voluntary extinction.

Why? Just "why"?

Maybe it's like with suicide: a lack of trust in (ones own) destiny...
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#867128 - 01/08/08 04:08 AM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: FireTom]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: Brisbane, Oz
 Written by :FireTom


In theory many ideas have good intent, practically it's not quite as easy.



Something about a road to somewhere being paved with good intentions?

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#867129 - 01/08/08 09:43 PM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: Doc Lightning]
Sethis Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 16/05/05
Loc: York University
 Written by :Doc Lightning


 Written by :FireTom


In theory many ideas have good intent, practically it's not quite as easy.



Something about a road to somewhere being paved with good intentions?





Ooh, ooh, that's the road to Falmouth! Am I right? Do I win a prize?
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#867130 - 04/08/08 11:59 PM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: Sethis]
FireTom Offline
Stargazer

Registered: 20/09/03
Loc: here and now
 Written by :Sethis


Ooh, ooh, that's the road to Falmouth! Am I right? Do I win a prize?



Jupp, here it is:

Doc - it's 'all' about intentions at first and those of the Nazi clique has never been (the conditioned) "good". Hitler wrote it out and published it way before he got elected... He was not hiding them.

But at the end of the day it's not about 'good or bad', 'right or wrong' - it's just about consequences... If people decide not to breed, I'm not forcing them into parenthood.

If people declare that they would like to realize a 'voluntary human extinction movement'.... well, how about leaving the 'voluntarism' and just supporting the way things work at the moment?

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Humble guardian to the amazing three: Chellybean, Hamamelis and AmaraO... love

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#867131 - 06/08/08 01:54 PM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: FireTom]
Lurch Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/11/03
Loc: Oregon
I'll have to disagree about no one in the Nazi clique ever being 'good'. Hitler may not have been, and his high ranking officials may not have been, but for many many *many* people it was either join the Nazi's or die. Not everyone is as morally weak as you would think. Of course, maybe you think it's more noble to die than to work against the machine from inside.

If it's not about 'right and wrong' and there are no morals involved, then why are we spending so much time and effort dragging out the lives of the genetically deficient? For that matter, why do we allow criminals to breed and potentially pass on a predisposition for violent behavior to yet another generation? A 'master race' seems like a logical evolutionary step... But then, those pesky morals say that it isn't right for society to choose who breeds with who, and who's not allowed to reproduce. Or for that matter, who should die (for the most part).
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#867132 - 06/08/08 08:53 PM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: Lurch]
FireTom Offline
Stargazer

Registered: 20/09/03
Loc: here and now
Lurch, that's sooo [sigh]

The NSDAP at some stage even refused to accept new applicants to the party (pretty early, 1933 till 1937) as they wanted to keep it "elite". People initially joined, expecting benefits in their careers or worse, believed in the parties policies. "Join the Nazis or die" - where you got that rubbish from? That's just some twisted view on (political) reality.

However: there has never anyone been forced to join the NSDAP...

Many (! - not "all" and not "most") people are 'morally weak' or lets put it nice: 'opportunistic', when it comes to personal benefits... It's natural.

"working against the machine from inside" vs. "to die (for your beliefs)"... that's coming from the guy who is favoring current gun legislation to defend himself against a possible dictator... ? I'm confused

"genetically deficient"? There might me more "idiot savants" than you may believe. (please note that I use 'idiot' in this context way apart from the common definition)... to give you an example: Stephen Hawkins is one of them, I wouldn't want to miss him.

I really despise the intent (yes, I'm jumping conclusions here) that I notice behind your wording:

 Written by : Lurch

If it's not about 'right and wrong' and there are no morals involved, then why are we spending so much time and effort dragging out the lives of the genetically deficient? For that matter, why do we allow criminals to breed and potentially pass on a predisposition for violent behavior to yet another generation? A 'master race' seems like a logical evolutionary step... But then, those pesky morals say that it isn't right for society to choose who breeds with who, and who's not allowed to reproduce. Or for that matter, who should die (for the most part).



1) Genetic deficiency (physical) has nothing to do with mental powers and/or 'intelligence'. You ever worked in a home for disabled persons? Well I did and I assume that you're talking out of your rear end.

2) You got any (peered) scientific proof that "criminal/violent behavior" is a "genetic predisposition"? I doubt it. You yourself might be living proof that both, disposition for violent behavior and genetic deficiency, do NOT necessarily go hand in hand.... no that's not an intended pun, but a compliment...

3) A "master race"... you're talking about those who enslaved Africans on the cotton fields of the Confederation? Or maybe about those who rounded up Jews, Homosexuals, disabled persons, communists, priests, political opposition and put them into Concentration Camps, working them to death, raping, poisoning, exposing them to cruel medical experiments or those who disfigured them alive? Or are you talking about those who genocided the native population in America or Australia or such?



Maybe you realize at some stage in your ... existence that 'having power' and NOT abusing it against those who can't speak or stand up for themselves is 'true mastership'.

Thanks for revealing another dark corner of your consciousness, yet: If you would have carefully read my post, you would not have tapped into the (non existing) trap:

 Written by : mini-me

Doc - it's 'all' about intentions at first and those of the Nazi clique has never been (the conditioned) "good".



I was talking about "intent" (at first).

As I've repeatedly said: many bad deeds have been committed in best intent and a lot of good accidentally derived from trying to harm others. Meaning that if even if "you" would decide to be a parent and tried to educate "your" child to be a murderer, "you" might actuadentally produce a savior. *You* will never know...

A human being ain't a dog or a machine - this is what makes this race so intriguing and (being a XY-varitety) I would really mourn the day those hormone battered, physically weak, irresolute, vicissitudinous, vulnerable creatures (namely the XX-variety) go extinct... I love 'em and yes, I do love mankind...

Dunno what 'l.o.v.e.' is to you - to me it means to accept with weaknesses and flaws.

I don't mean to slap (my) 'truth' in other people's face like a wet towel... 'Funny' enough Hitler himself has not remotely been living up to his standards. Do you find him to be a tall, strong built, athletic, green/blue eyed emperor - or rather a wretched psycho? Often we find those, having 'genetic deficiencies' or being 'half-bloods' themselves to be furious fighters for a "master race"... Learn to live with and to love your self despite your flaws/ deficiencies and the world will be a better place - no need to drop out of the gene-pool or to go extinct...



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Humble guardian to the amazing three: Chellybean, Hamamelis and AmaraO... love

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#867133 - 06/08/08 09:34 PM Re: The voluntary human extinction movement [Re: FireTom]
Stone Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 13/06/01
Loc: Melbourne
 Written by Lurch

I'll have to disagree about no one in the Nazi clique ever being 'good'. Hitler may not have been, and his high ranking officials may not have been, but for many many *many* people it was either join the Nazi's or die. Not everyone is as morally weak as you would think. Of course, maybe you think it's more noble to die than to work against the machine from inside.



Lurch, the Nuremberg Defense (the defense of superior orders), is not an accepted defense for war crimes, or any crimes for that matter ie. it's not my fault, he made me do it.

 Written by Lurch

If it's not about 'right and wrong' and there are no morals involved, then why are we spending so much time and effort dragging out the lives of the genetically deficient? For that matter, why do we allow criminals to breed and potentially pass on predisposition for violent behavior to yet another generation? A 'master race' seems like a logical evolutionary step... But then, those pesky morals say that it isn't right for society to choose who breeds with who, and who's not allowed to reproduce. Or for that matter, who should die (for the most part).



Lurch, it's not about morals, it’s about principles.

Morals generally means a code of conduct held to be authoritative in matters of right and wrong. Morals are created and defined by society, and are therefore no more than norms established by a particular society. Therefore, according to the Nazi’s, they were morally right because they believed they were doing the right thing.

On the other hand, principles are completely different. A principle is a foundation upon which other values and measures of integrity are based. For example, “human rights” would refers to the principle of basic rights and freedoms for all human beings, not a select few. The principle of “master race” as a concept in Nazi ideology, holds that the Germanic and Nordic people represent an ideal and "pure race".

So to me, supporting the concept of master race as a logical evolutionary step is just another way of saying a person supports white supremacy.


Edited by Stone (06/08/08 09:47 PM)

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