Some questions on fire breathing

 Written by :NewGuy


i came across this forum looking for basically the same thing as zeeku777, but trust me when i say this, i've been sufficiently discouraged by what i've read.
IF however i want to learn any of these DANGEROUS arts in the future, how would i recognize a professional that can teach me how to do it as safe as possible from someone who merely say's s/he can?

 Written by : newguy

last year someone did show me a technique, using a powder (don't know what it was exactly) making more of a Flash Ball than the real thing.

 Written by : MikeIcon

Sounds like jealousy and fear to me. I was kind of the same way before I learned more about it and did it myself. Its like "Man, I think its really cool and wish I could do it... But I don't have the guts... So Im just gonna rant about how dangerous it is to discourage others." Like 'if I can't have it no one can' mentality...

You're not making too much sense to me.

 Written by :MikeIcon


Sounds like jealousy and fear to me. I was kind of the same way before I learned more about it and did it myself. Its like "Man, I think its really cool and wish I could do it... But I don't have the guts... So Im just gonna rant about how dangerous it is to discourage others." Like 'if I can't have it no one can' mentality...

 Written by :MikeIcon


Nathaniel - Is it that you don't want to learn or that you are too afraid of the negative effects to take the chance? If breathing fire were as safe as drinking water, would you still feel the same way?

 Written by :


Sounds like jealousy and fear to me. I was kind of the same way before I learned more about it and did it myself. Its like "Man, I think its really cool and wish I could do it... But I don't have the guts... So Im just gonna rant about how dangerous it is to discourage others." Like 'if I can't have it no one can' mentality...

Reminiscent of schoolyard 'are you too chicken...' goading

Like Nathaniel, I don't and won't, fire-breathe- it's nothing to do with fear, I think of it as more of a self-respect thing.

i.e. I have too much self-respect, and, desire to look after my body and my life, than to willingly imbibe a provenly toxic substance which, if used with any frequency, will, in the long term, cause damage.

 Written by :


Also, these videos of people screwing up don't really inspire others to try it I don't think either.

 Written by :

And saying "those who do it, even professionally are bound to encounter health issues" is an assumption and the same could be said for any fire art (or many other occupations for that matter).

 Written by :


Lastly, you said yourself that people were able to steal your crowd by doing a staff burnoff... So, does that mean we should lynch staffers too so that you and your non-crowd pleasing poi skills can look cooler? Pssh - How about being more creative and learning how to work a crowd instead of standing in one spot spinning tech tricks which to YOU are the coolest thing ever, but to a crowd are kinda lame. :: You can obviously see what the crowd likes - As a performer, it is your duty to entertain a crowd, not entertain yourself. Saying "lets cut out the best parts of our show so that the less interesting parts stand out" is kinda counter productive IMO.

 Written by :NathanielEverist


............I had a performance today alongside a couple of staff twirlers, who did burnouts and the crowd ooed and aahed, while I was on poi. I twirled at a far higher level than they did, if I may say so myself, but afterwards people came up to me and were asking me why I couldn't do "the big fireball thing" and asked "aren't you as good as them?". I explained but they just had the "why learn poi then?" kinda attitude. To the ignorant crowd, more speed and more fire equals more skills. Sad but true, and they feel the same about fire-breathing. And if you don't believe idiots will see it and try and copy, just check out youtube. Idiots aside even, those who learn properly and are really good at it, still generally end up with health issues. Why perpetuate that? And there is no hate involved, I never have and never will harbour or express any malcontent towards any fire-breathers, and have a huge degree of respect for them, I just don't think the art should continue.

 Written by : MikeIcon

Nathaniel - Is it that you don't want to learn or that you are too afraid of the negative effects to take the chance? If breathing fire were as safe as drinking water, would you still feel the same way?

Both. I'll admit and have already admitted (did you read my posts?) in a second that I am too afraid of the health repercussions of fire-breathing. And it's not a "chance", long-term exposure to these chemicals is harmful. Period. Call me old fashioned, but I like my teeth straight(ish) and white(ish), how else could I pursue my modeling career?
If fire-breathing were as safe as drinking water, then no, I would definitely not feel the same way, I would be fire-breathing right now, I don't understand your point, as my choice not to fire-breath is due to the fact that it is far from as safe as drinking water, unless of course water was a flammable carcinogen... see my point?

 Written by :MikeIcon

Why do you assume culture is better off without Fire Breathing just because a few idiots decide to try it without getting proper knowledge and hurt themselves? Why do you feel you have a right to judge what is and what is not good for culture? How is Fire Breathing any different than any other fire art in those respects? You can still kill yourself or others while spinning poi and you can still inspire 'idiots' to go home and try to spin fire and hurt themselves. Chances are, anyone who runs home and tries any fire art without proper instruction is about due for a kick in the ass to bring them back to reality. Afterall, I highly doubt after setting their face on fire and getting 3rd degree burns on 40% of their face these people will try it again. Also, these videos of people screwing up don't really inspire others to try it I don't think either.

I "assume" that the culture is better off without Fire Breathing because it's harmful. As a parallel example, say it was part of the culture for all fire-twirlers to smoke cigarettes. Sure it may make them look cooler (to some people), but it is not only encourages wannabe's to do the same, but is also harmful to the people doing it. I don't think you understand that fire-breathing, isn't a risk, it IS bad for you. Sure, there's risk of something horrible going wrong, but the human body doesn't react well to such chemicals being ingested. That is the primary way fire-breathing is different from other fire-arts. Other fire arts don't require you to put the fuel in your mouth, and in the course of doing so ingest some.

 Written by :MikeIcon

And saying "those who do it, even professionally are bound to encounter health issues" is an assumption and the same could be said for any fire art (or many other occupations for that matter).

 Written by :Onewheeldave

Fire poi is undeniably, in general and,on the whole, far, far safer than fire-breathing.

 Written by :MikeIcon

Lastly, you said yourself that people were able to steal your crowd by doing a staff burnoff... So, does that mean we should lynch staffers too so that you and your non-crowd pleasing poi skills can look cooler? Pssh - How about being more creative and learning how to work a crowd instead of standing in one spot spinning tech tricks which to YOU are the coolest thing ever, but to a crowd are kinda lame. :: You can obviously see what the crowd likes - As a performer, it is your duty to entertain a crowd, not entertain yourself. Saying "lets cut out the best parts of our show so that the less interesting parts stand out" is kinda counter productive IMO.

 Written by :Onewheeldave

Nathaniel- don't be discouraged: on this occasion you were approached by audience members with no appreciation of skill, who were suckers for the cheap spectacle approach.

 Written by :Onewheeldave

At the end of the day, the general public hace seen loads of fire-breathing, in a few years, big staff burn-offs will be just as commonplace- both those can be learnt very quickly and easily- truly skillful spinning will always be rarer and, take longer to achieve a high level in.

 Written by :MikeIcon

My point is that I said your earlier post sounded like fear and jealousy... Fear in the sense that you fear the negative health effects so you won't do it but are jealous of how it effects your performance or how others see your art. You said it wasn't because you were afraid, but because you didn't want to. Im simply showing that it ISN'T because you dont want to, but because you are afraid of the consequences.

 Written by :NathanielEverist

But after seeing all the info on how dangerous it is, I opted not to do it

 Written by :NathanielEverist

Yes, you're right I don't have the guts to do it myself, but the difference is that I don't wish I could do it. I know that if I wanted to do it, I could learn, but I don't want to learn

 Written by :NathanielEverist

I'll admit and have already admitted (did you read my posts?) in a second that I am too afraid of the health repercussions of fire-breathing.

 Written by :MikeIcon

First off, ultra pure lamp oil is non-carcinogenic until it is burned, in which case, you are inhaling probably more carcinogens while spinning poi than while breathing fire.

 Written by :MikeIcon

Fire Breathing these days is much less dangerous than it used to be... However, part of the secret to breathing fire is keeping up the general belief that it is more dangerous than it is (as in all fire arts). Yes, it is dangerous and people like Pele will tell you all about it... However, cases like Pele's are extreme and rare. Fire Breathing is NOT a death sentence. Sure, if you breathe fire 20 times per night 6 days a week for 10 years you'll probably end up in bad shape. If you breathe fire for 5 minutes 4 times a month during your 20's and 30's, chances are you'll be ok. I know plenty of performers who have been breathing for years without incident or major health issues.

Really? Because everything I've read tells me that it's crazy dangerous and that even if things go well, it's still bad for you. If what you say is true, than you have just reignited my interest in learning to fire breathe, like you said, it can be highly effective combined with twirling. As I've established, my reasons for not Fire Breathing or eating are not a fear or fire or burns, of which I have had many (none higher than second degree though luckily), but for fear of health issues, namely with the fuels and the severe problems that can occur when they go wrong and the likelihood of problems as opposed to other fire-arts like twirling.

 Written by :MikeIcon

Yes, I made a lot of assumptions and I probably shouldn't have. I was kind of speaking more metaphorically though... Basically just trying to say that it's not because the staffers made a giant plume of fire, its just because the staffers connected more with the audience made a bigger impact. Its not the tool but how you use it and so on. .. You shouldn't have to worry about if the other guy has bigger fire than you if you can work your own stuff correctly.

That's cool man, don't worry making assumptions, we all do it every now and then, don't sweat it. Agreed, it's not the tool it's how you use it... to a degree. But to the general audience, in my experience, more fire and more speed equates to more awe, even though it may require less skill, they don't know that. That's why I used my triple wicks for performing last night, even though they're more dangerous and limit my movements more, simply because the audience loves them. As for worrying if the other guy has bigger fire than me, well, I guess that's just my testosterone talking.

 Written by :MikeIcon

Yes, it is easy to spit fuel through flame and produce results... However, it is also easy to set a poi on fire and spin it around.

Agreed, but Fire Breathing is easier to produce results with (both good and horribly bad) at a beginner's level than with poi. I guess it's kinda like the old adage goes: "No risk, no reward". The greater the risk the greater the reward, the same goes for danger and crowd response.

 Written by :MikeIcon

GOOD Fire Breathing is just as hard to achieve as good spinning. There is DEFINITELY a huge amount of skill required to breathe fire in a controlled manner. Perhaps a lot of this bias towards breathing is just that not enough of you have encountered a GOOD fire breather (as admittedly, there are very few of us). If you think good spinners are rare, just think of how rare good breathers are (since there are only like 1/100th the amount of breathers to spinners as it is)

 Written by :MikeIcon

Really, Im just offended by your anti-Fire Breathing stance as quoted in "everything should be done to make it an extinct practice" because that, to me, sounds like hate and fear

 Written by :MikeIcon

I feel like you may still be a bit fresh in this field... Pardon if Im wrong.

If you mean the field of fire eating and breathing, I'm not just fresh, I've never done it, only read about it (which is enough to put me off). But if what you said about ultra-pure lamp oil being non-carcinogenic, the health issues not being as bad as others say and that incidents like Pele's (which breaks my heart, I hate the thought of somebody as nice as her going through that and of my own family enduring watching me in such a state) are extreme and rare. I guess it just worries me that if people as skilled as her (and Mephisto) have endured health problems, what hope do I have? But if you are right and that Fire Breathing is far less dangerous than it used to be, I will start trying to learn straight away. But, because I value my safety, I'd like a bit more verification if that's ok...

Cheers.

 Written by :MikeIcon


Also, news flash, all fire arts are bad for you! None of them are safe. None of them are healthy. They will all cause accidents and negative health effects if done improperly or excessively... Just like everything else in this world.

 Written by :


This really kills me coming from you Dave... Yes, it is easy to spit fuel through flame and produce results... However, it is also easy to set a poi on fire and spin it around. GOOD Fire Breathing is just as hard to achieve as good spinning. There is DEFINITELY a huge amount of skill required to breathe fire in a controlled manner. Perhaps a lot of this bias towards breathing is just that not enough of you have encountered a GOOD fire breather (as admittedly, there are very few of us). If you think good spinners are rare, just think of how rare good breathers are (since there are only like 1/100th the amount of breathers to spinners as it is)

As you say, there are very few GOOD fire-breathers.

I've yet to see one, over many years of being around fire-artists- I have seen lots of inept ones though (bearded drunks etc).

What I mean by fire-breathing being easier than spinning, is that anyone can fire-breathe with less than one hours practice- it's not safe to do so, but, it is do-able and, many do, do just that.

The result is a spectacle that will bring gasps of admiration and applause from, at least a portion, of any bystanders watching.

An hours practice with poi, will produce a spectacle that, in all liklihood, will be laughable- more so if the person chooses to actually light up the poi.

Even to get to a raggy 'fast-3-beat' with a few basic tricks like butterfly, done with no grace or style whatsoever, will, for most, require several weeks practice.



Here's a thought- wouldn't it actually be good if only a few people did Fire Breathing- good for everyone, especially the fire-breathers?

Cos, the more the naive dabble with an art whose dangers they do not appreciate, the more likely is that big accident that leads to governments banning it (as as just happened in a part of Australia with fire footbags).

If I was a fire-breather and, I never will be, but if I was, I would-

1. support whole-heartedly the propagation of the real facts concerning the risks and long-term toxic effects of the art
2. be happier the less people did it, partly cos the less who do it, the less get hurt- but, partly cos it means more business for me and. more important, more control over what I do in my act (not feeling pushed into going beyond my limits due to competing with suicidal performers always trying to go one-better)