COL2007 - it's here!

Nice to know i'm not utterly alone
(Meg doesn't count as she's technically insane)

Why is it that whenever anyone attempts to give any criticism whatsoever on this online community he/she gets immediately bashed? Sorry hippies, rain comes with the raimbows, and the roses have thorns. How do you expect anyone to ever come further when the only critique allowed was 'wow, this was really cool!'.

By any other artistic competition I know of, the judges nearly always give critique to the performer, normally face to face and many dont even bother finding a nice euphanism to 'I thought this part was crap'. I mean, thats the whole point to a COMPETITION, there's winners and losers and there's a normally a reason why this guy won and that one lost.

I havent seen the new COL, but I remember last year the whole thing made me a bit angry BECAUSE there was no feedback from the judges. And if I remember correctly I wasnt the only one irritated by this.

See, cause since I've explained this all, I think ya'all are on a witch hunt at this point.

Let's see, ever notice when posts get shredded apart they lose meaning? Yeah, me too.

'K.

Ben...first part is called an introduction to a statement. It is the precurser to the rest of the *entirety* of the statement, which is used to support the introduction. I did that.

Let's see, the statement about diversity. Really? You can't figure out what other people are submitting? Lots of people didn't make it a secret and I am sure if you ask, they'll tell you. Also, check YouTube or the hot "new" toy and it's garunteed, COL will follow suit. Now, if you look at the film you are submitting and *know* you look exactly like another spinner/dancer/artist (which is a wonderful homage sure) and you are comfy with that, wonderful. However, it shouldn't be a shock when the observation is later made. Or you can use it as motivation to develope from there something your own and submit that, thus adding to the diversity. Not hard to figure out.

Let's see, the natural logic coming from the statement about so many of the "stories" being more story focussed and less skill focussed would be to balance that out. Hmmmm.

Yes, the statement about the videos submitted was misworded and for that, I apologize.

If I were to see the statement about something I was part of (and I have, which is how I know it works) that more diversity in tools and styles was needed, I would completely, as a participant, embrace that and use it to fuel me the following year. And I have. And it worked. And it progressed my own skills tremendously and I was so freakin' appreciative of the constructive criticism (and as long as it isn't a simple "you suck"- which I would *NEVER* say, then it can be learned from. Perhaps I thought that you would read then think things through instead of responding with what feels like a knee jerk reaction). To me that is what anyone who is passionate and serious about this would do, and those are the types of people that I assume are involved in this project. In fact, I *know* those are the types of people based on the private feedback I've given. So no, that entire statement would be beneficial to anyone who walks away and thinks about it.

I also find it interesting that two people not on the video are the ones attempting to make me feel bad about what I've said, while I've received emails and pm's from those on the video wanting feedback to improve their performance (which I have reiterated in all of them that it is just my opinion, and how I feel they could strengthen only their submission/choreography/etc.). For that I also praise and applaude those members for their extreme dedication to their craft because I know it is not an easy thing to do when you really want to hear "That was perfect!"

I would also like to add that is seems as if you are equating my being disappointed with aspects as my saying "This sucks", or at least that is how this is coming across.

I don't think the video sucks at all. Nor do I think any single submission does. I think it is a wonderful compilation, something for everyone involved to be tremendously proud of and we, meaning the people in my living room...not the judges (is that clearer now?) enjoyed it tremendously. I just feel that some of our (the people in my living room) expectations based on the participation of the people on this bb were not met and I found that disappointing.

And for that, we are *all* responsible for not submitting.

I also find it interesting that no one has yet addressed the fact that I also mentioned how unfair I felt it was and my suggestion of a division next year, as a form of constructive criticism. Goes back to picking and choosing what you want to use methinks.

Yeah...whatever.

Witch out...and by out I mean, removing from this discussion unless it actually progresses from here.

hey, lets make peace, just relinquish your judging position

T

p.s. "she's a witch!"

"how do you know?"

"well shes dressed up like one..."

(witch) "you dressed me up like this!"

Tragic that this thread has become a tit for tat dissection of words.

If you want to dissect anything, how about the subject at hand - that being COL 2007?

I, *personally* (do we all need to include that disclaimer now?) really enjoyed 85% of the DVD and applaud all the entrants. The performances, the locations, the costuming was, most of the time, fantastic and a vast improvement on previous years and for that, I (again personally) thank you all! Zaobab is my new hero, and Elias (still not) On Fire managed to reinspire me to pick up my toys. Fire Groove rocked my planet and I dig sexy people performing well to their audience. So much hooping!!! (anyone else giggle at that word; other connotations...) Accoutrement de jour.

Yes, there was some amateur stuff, and also some things that I personally didn't love - but that's just me and I get enchanted by shiny things, but overall this DVD is leaps and bounds ahead of it's earlier incarnations.


Well done all, and thanks very much for your efforts, time and courage to be reviewed by your peers.

actually to be quite honest i got a little aroused at certain points on the video
kinda became a habit around the same time i got into 'these arts'

my only criticism is that ben's impersonation of meg is not at all true to her col 2007 entry. i expect an apology on my desk by monday, Dr longstaff!!

Post deleted by ben-ja-men

Bender - I thought your video was great. Strong postures and creative movement, but I would like to see a little more extension of your lines.

applauds miss flash.

Having watched it again last night, some further comments..

Bender - Really nice to see fans done in a different style to the norm. A small shame the film quality wasn't a smidge better...
Fire dance with light - Nice show, and that's a fat flame coming off the staff. I would've liked to see more of the fire-sphere-thing, very interesting prop.
Petey - Beautiful location and top-notch spinning. Smile
Burning Match - I nearly skipped yours, but so glad I didn't. So funny, and some nice moves in there too. Only real crit I could offer would be the long-distance shots were fairly dark.
Nosh (I think it was Nosh...) - That was the most bizzare spinning video I've ever watched, definitely in a good way. Sweet editing.
Noel, Greg and Dave - Nice manipulation and skills, not sure a porta-loo makes for the best backdrop though
Elias - Very pretty and top skills. In terms of video i would've chopped the camera angles up a bit more...

Only general comment which applies to a few would be the "Just because you've got 3 minutes, you don't have to use it all". It's very hard to take a step back from your own video and say "That's enough", but a few videos seemed to go on just-that-bit too long. For this reason, I'd give an honorable mention to "Short Fusion" for not being afraid to limit the time.

That's all I can remember at the moment...

Funniest bit of the DVD?
First music credit - "Juicy Meatstick"
Class.
(Also "Flamming Passion" - enthusiastic drummers? )

[complete side-note]
Would it be possible to have a HoP-name list against each of the videos? I had no idea Flow Garden was Kahn for example (nice vid by the way ) - it's just nice to put a name to a video in a "oooooooo that's who you are" way

I Totally agree with you Durbs!
For me the purpose of the DVD is not to see good spinning, but to to see good spinning *video*. The DVD have one main purpose - to inspire. Inspiring video for me will be a one that did something that hasn't done before. New artistic idea, new choreography, new style.
I want COL to do for spinning what "Hero" did to martial arts. To use the media to extract something more powerful than the spinning itself.
I tried to do this in my entry (Burning Match). It was a comic entry more then the next thing in spinning because this is my style, but my goal was to use the video to create something special. A video-art, and not just a documented routine.
Pele, maybe it is worth to split the DVD into two different things: one to show the most hot things in spinning, the best moves, hardest tricks etc', and the second to show artistic creations in which the video take a part greater then a media to spread the routine.

Durbs, I'm glad you liked it! The long-distance shots were really dark because they didn't catch the light from the side-torches... Next time we will use extra lighting...

Daniel

like a skateboad style 'hardest trick' competition..... ?

gay

T

Hurrah! my copy arrived today. Havnt had a chance to watch it yet but will watch it after our weekly burn tonight and post my impressions accordingly.

As to the idea of dividing COL, i have mixed feelings about this. It really depends on how you would split it up. I dont think that having a pro's and a amature category would be sensible. I know a number of amazing spinners who arnt professional and a number of professionals that arent that amazing.
Im more in favour of having a technical / skill level catagory and an artistic interpretation category. Which category you prefer is a matter of taste but i think that most people can appreciate something done well in either, spliting the 2 would take away judging bias dependant on taste (e.g. i like technical spinning more than dancey stuff, so if i was a judge i would be more likly to vote for the technically proficient, splitting the categories would force me to consider both and make it fairer)

Good idea, in theory...

But then you've got 2 competitions (regardless if there's 1st, 2nd 3rd places - it's still a comp to get on the DVD), and I really wouldn't like to judge the tech' category.
Hardest moves make it on? Best explained make it on? Which is in fact more tech - prayer steve or inverted 7-bt atomic weave

Plus I think you'd lose a lot of entrants - dare I use the word "amateur"... The single-camera angle, single-shot performances. Unless of incredible choreography or beautiful movement, they wouldn't count as artistic, yet knowing roughly where the bar is to be classed as "tech", they might not feel they can enter into this category either.
Whilst you could argue (and I'd probably agree) this would make for a better DVD - it wouldn't be as community focussed as CoL currently is.

Again it comes down to what CoL is, what it should be, and what it could be