#848690 - 06/11/07 07:48 PM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: PK_]
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newbie
Registered: 26/08/04
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PELE:
Your feedback didn't literally name performers, but the comment about the more theatrical videos was extremely directed.
You seem to have a very strong idea about what makes a good video, but don't we all, isn't that the point of competitions like this, so people can put forth what they think they have to offer?
I think the theatrical, dance parts of the performance are just as important as the fire itself, and having seen fire for so many years, I get bored of same old and are more interested in an evolution into different interpretations of the fire.
The competition never stated it was primarily about skills first, it seemed a lot more open then that, and the general consensus was that the most technical aren't normally the ones that win, it's the people doing something different.
Shame to seeing a judge try to box in what this should all be about....... I think you've got the word creativity and contrived confused.
So yeh i say bring on over the top  , otherwise i'm going to get damn bored.
Edited by scatterface (06/11/07 07:52 PM)
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#848692 - 06/11/07 09:44 PM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: PK_]
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Classically British
Registered: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
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PK - Of course she's entitled to an opinion, but is it really so much of a chore not to air these? Most people (I think) know she's on the judging panel, so regardless of whether it's posted as a "I think" or "The judges thought" - it's still coming from one of the judges. Meh, i'm not saying she was hugely critical and said lots of horrible things. I just think that aside from praising the DVD layout, it came across as rather negative - "I was dissapointed". I'd be mildly peeved if one of the judges thought that, almost "nothing was very good, here's the best of a bad bunch". This would rather take away some of the warm fuzzy glow you'd get from being put on the DVD. If someone else criticises the DVD - the entrants can think "ok, they didn't like it - but others will". If a judge posts that it might dent the joy somewhat. It's only thanks to X-factor and Strictly Come Dancing shows that it's starting to become the norm for judges to offer vocal criticism. And I hardly think these are a good example of best-practise to follow  (I took the "we" to mean the judging panel, not a group of friends - I could well be wrong  ) Shorter version: Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but is it so much of a ball-ache not to post it if you're on the judging panel? There's plenty of others willing to post feedback... (But yes, I agree Scatterface has possibly taken things a little close to heart after apparently mis-reading one of the rare bits of positivity in Pele's original post...)
_________________________
Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath. 
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#848694 - 07/11/07 12:46 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: strugz]
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addict
Registered: 12/07/04
Loc: Bristol
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Have many other people in the UK received their copy yet? mine still isnt here and im dying to watch it. Damn postal strike.
Durbs: you noticed that then. They were filmed at the same time but i carefully used different footage for each so as not to break the rules. Its also why effortless is only around a minute long, i saved the best footage for COL.
_________________________
"Don't do it naked!"
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#848695 - 07/11/07 12:51 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: -sandy-]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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Yeah, tell me about it. i ain't got mine yet either.  Leaves me lots of time to download anime! yay!
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#848697 - 07/11/07 01:11 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: PK_]
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what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Registered: 03/03/05
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Written by: PK_
**** idiot hasn't even read this thread, just piping up with a two cent post. *sigh*
PK I think it is very wrong to swear in this way at someone in a forum.
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#848698 - 07/11/07 01:17 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: newgabe]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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I thought not-yet-shagging one of the moderators got you special privileges.
I was setting my sights on Dom.
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#848699 - 07/11/07 02:46 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: mcp]
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Still wiggling
Registered: 22/10/02
Loc: Belfast
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  Meg... get back to your anime... muppet x
_________________________
Getting to the other side 
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#848702 - 07/11/07 03:59 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: _Clare_]
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Classically British
Registered: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
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Wait - there's anime muppets now?
_________________________
Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#848703 - 07/11/07 04:48 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: Durbs]
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50 deluxe
Registered: 20/12/01
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Written by: Durbs
PK - Of course she's entitled to an opinion, but is it really so much of a chore not to air these?
Most people (I think) know she's on the judging panel, so regardless of whether it's posted as a "I think" or "The judges thought" - it's still coming from one of the judges.
Meh, i'm not saying she was hugely critical and said lots of horrible things. I just think that aside from praising the DVD layout, it came across as rather negative - "I was dissapointed". I'd be mildly peeved if one of the judges thought that, almost "nothing was very good, here's the best of a bad bunch". This would rather take away some of the warm fuzzy glow you'd get from being put on the DVD.
If someone else criticises the DVD - the entrants can think "ok, they didn't like it - but others will". If a judge posts that it might dent the joy somewhat.
It's only thanks to X-factor and Strictly Come Dancing shows that it's starting to become the norm for judges to offer vocal criticism. And I hardly think these are a good example of best-practise to follow
(I took the "we" to mean the judging panel, not a group of friends - I could well be wrong )
Shorter version:
Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but is it so much of a ball-ache not to post it if you're on the judging panel? There's plenty of others willing to post feedback...
(But yes, I agree Scatterface has possibly taken things a little close to heart after apparently mis-reading one of the rare bits of positivity in Pele's original post...)
I can see your view point Durbs. 
I don't think that there hasn't been a col thread without Pele making criticism though, I'm just narked that people just view her as a Mod and not a person... people kind of miss that there is actually a person there with feelings.
As for mcp's post, go for it with Dom I wish you all the luck in the world... but can you reiterate what special privileges your talking about  ..
I'd have said the same if it were Flash, Charles or any other member of HoP... I think your missing some thing there... or just intent on a personal attack.
_________________________
PK.
"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."
*Francois Couperin.
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#848704 - 07/11/07 05:04 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: PK_]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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Written by: PK_
As for mcp's post, go for it with Dom I wish you all the luck in the world... but can you reiterate what special privileges your talking about ..
I'd have said the same if it were Flash, Charles or any other member of HoP... I think your missing some thing there... or just intent on a personal attack.
errrr... you called someone a fuckin idiot! Does that not count as abusive in your book?
By special privileges I meant the right to break the rules / guidelines of hop with impunity. ie:
"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. "
But yeah, if you think I'm intent on a personal attack. Go for it.
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#848705 - 07/11/07 05:11 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: mcp]
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50 deluxe
Registered: 20/12/01
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Yeah as it was...
So there is an edit function and I used it.
So by saying that then you had no point to make at all in your previous post...
Edited by PK_ (07/11/07 05:16 AM)
_________________________
PK.
"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."
*Francois Couperin.
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#848706 - 07/11/07 05:16 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: mcp]
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the henna lady
Registered: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
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Scatterface, really? Which of the multitudes of theatrical videos was it directed at? I can think of numerous that fit into that category off the top of my head. Care to clarify what I was thinking then? Yeah..moving on. English is my first language. I know the difference between creative and contrived. I used the word I felt most appropriate. I stand by it. Durbs, I believe I did say "one of the people sitting in my living room" and it is no secret that I live in the US, so um....explain how I saw this with the rest of the judges? And no, not common knowledge that I'm a judge. Hell, I'm not even sure who the rest of the judges are to be honest, or how many. Next, yes, it really is hard. Why shouldn't I give feedback? My feedback is pretty much about the DVD on the whole here. And I said, and stand by, that I think all the entrants did a great job. Standing back and being silent doesn't get anyone anywhere. And concidering I offered constructive criticism and feedback.. just as I have always done publically. Why is it only now that I am being called out on it? Why should I stop now and not years ago? My issues with it weren't with the individual submissions, as I think everyone did the best they could and did a bang up job. I also said that. No one learns from silence. I'd be pissed if I put into this and everyone just patted me on the back and said good job. I'd be pissed if I put time and effort into a video and everyone just said "Oh that's nice. Best yet!" Really? Why? I want to know why it's better. I want to know what can be improved next time. I want to progress and this is the only way to do it, and in this case..where I was making *BLANKET* statements quite on purpose, public is the best place to do it because it gets people thinking about next time around. If I do it in private, who learns? Only specific people. Not people thinking of putting in next year. And honestly, I've already had emails and pm's from people who said they want to what I've said for submissions next year. Yes it is one persons opinion. I admit that and I've never said I was an authority but I won't sit and be quiet either. I find it interesting how you are focussing so hard on the "bad" that you are failing to see any good or benefit. I find that sad and limiting to the experience. PK- newgabe is right. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without attack. mcp- crass, rude and disgusting much? Very uncool and uncalled for and just as far offbase and unwarrented as PK's name calling. Pineapple Pete, 'kay...now that is really funny. I think you did it on purpose to tease people to come lick it off! Now I have to look for it! Wanna make it easier on me? Which leg?
_________________________
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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#848708 - 07/11/07 06:06 AM
Re: COL2007 - it's here!
[Re: Pele]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
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Written by: Pele
And considering I offered constructive criticism and feedback..
I think this is the point where the misunderstandings are coming from. I'm not sure if its a cultural difference or that some meaning is getting lost in the text only communication. Pele perhaps you could provide some clarification on your constructive criticism as I am a little bit puzzled.
Written by: Pele
I have to agree with the DVD itself, the menus, the artist selection, etc being better than before.
The music as well.
Props for that!
Beyond that, I was disappointed.
can you elaborate as to how this is constructive for the performers? I fail to see how this can help them to produce a better entry next year.
Written by: Pele
There was a severe lack of diversity on this thing. The staves, all done to varying skills, were all done extremely similarly. Same with the hoops. And the fact that it was sooo completely heavy in these areas as well. Watching these every year one can not only determine the hot topic of what prop to use but also what the newest focus of movement groups with that group are.
This also reflects back to another discussion I've been in about how so many HoP spinners now look alike because of the common influence. I could literally look at people and go "Oh, that's Nicks influence"
im a little confused as to what the suggestion was for how to fix this? seeings as the entrants don't see each other submissions im not sure how they can avoid this short of going off to spin in isolation for the next year?
Written by: Pele
Story driven was another hot thing this year, in several videos we felt, to the detriment of actually showing spinning skill. There were a few I can think of where the story was far more emphasized and skills were shown but a fraction of the video time. That was *extremely* disappointing, since this is actually a spinning/skill video, not a- as one of the viewers in my living room put it- freshman film class project.
My understanding of constructive criticism is that generally instead of saying you've done a rubbish job you would suggest perhaps using a camera boom, getting some film students to borrow a rig/have input into how to shoot it.
Written by: Pele
I understand that HoP worked with the videos they were given and they did a bang up job with it.
I was a bit surprised by this comment, perhaps this wasn't the intention but when I read this i thought it implied that what they had to work with was under par
Written by: Pele
However, we (as we had a large group viewing it) would have prefered to see more diversity, in styles and in tool list.
i can see how thats constructive feedback for the editors, im not really sure how it translates over to the individuals?
ps meg nice work with the full staff on fire, but where was the head spin?
_________________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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