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Waist Wrap

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#837525 - 10/09/07 10:23 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: simian]
thombre member Registered: 06/10/06 Loc: Nottingham	Christ, alright, I guess I should have known! Well, the only answer is to make whatever it is work as well as I can, and then when I meet someone more knowledgeable than me they can tell me Ive been doing it wrong and how to make it better. Sorted. _________________________ Buy gerbils cos you can't spin with hamsters
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#837526 - 12/09/07 03:19 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Old-User--43917]
Stone Carpal \'Tunnel Registered: 13/06/01 Loc: Melbourne	The waist wrap is a two beat move not a three beat weave. Lead with the right going to the right. I look it up, and get back with a description. PinkNigel, did you figure out the tangle? _________________________ The ingredients of health and long life are Great temperance, open air, Indian Clubs, little care.
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#837527 - 12/09/07 09:34 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Stone]
PinkNigel Pinker than thou Registered: 04/05/06 Loc: A little pink world all my own...	Written by: Stone The waist wrap is a two beat move not a three beat weave. Lead with the right going to the right. Hahaha.. Now you're doing what I'd describe as 3,4,1,2.. If I'm doing 1,2,3,4 it's either lead with the left when going from left-right on your first front circle or lead with the right going right-left with the first front circle. Is it any wonder we can all talk about the exact same thing yet disagree about it? Written by: Stone PinkNigel, did you figure out the tangle? Haven't had a chance to look at it yet, I'll dig out Schatz as soon as I get the chance.. (Problem I have with that book is that I always feel like I've had to read all of it up to the bit I'm interested in for the bit I want to make sense...) _________________________ A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)
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#837528 - 13/09/07 12:54 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: PinkNigel]
Stone Carpal \'Tunnel Registered: 13/06/01 Loc: Melbourne	Hi sp1ke333, was the video still up at media circus? PinkNigel, I think were are on the same page. These are two beat moves or follow circles; one hand is always following the other. For a waist wrap, to the right, I do the first circle behind. Like, from parallel long arm circles to the right, take the right club behind the right hip, the left follows. With the right leading come in front, cross and uncross in front of belly button, the right leads into a circle behind the left hip, do the pass back (clubs parallel) and start another one. I think the problem with the Schatz book is that we have to keep going back to basics, and for sure it’s takes a while to get back to those arm over back of waist arm over front stuff Bov, got any new moves? _________________________ The ingredients of health and long life are Great temperance, open air, Indian Clubs, little care.
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#837529 - 13/09/07 01:31 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Stone]
sp1ke333 Member Registered: 14/05/07	Written by: Stone Hi sp1ke333, was the video still up at media circus? Hi! Sorry but i havent understood...which video are you talking about?
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#837530 - 13/09/07 03:10 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: sp1ke333]
Durbs Classically British Registered: 23/09/01 Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England	Woot - time to upset several people and wade in with my own definitions and arguements Right, Waist Wrap to me, that is in poi terms, is wall plane with one hand BTB - that's it. I don't like the original "Waist Wrap" move that people first used, which was just split time spinning at your side in wall plane - or pretty much just a split-time tuck turn (from the Free Lessons - HERE) continuously. It also made what i'd call a waist-wrap move a "BTB waist wrap" - which sounds overly complicated and wordy and only one hand is BTB anyway. As I said, I use the term (as do several others) as I said in the second sentance; one arm btb, in wall plane - cos then you can have WW butterflies, WW 5bt weaves, "throw it from a waist wrap" - and it all makes sense. Incidentally, i'd like to take this opportunity to point out i'm always right about this kind of thing, unless Simon or Cole says i'm not, in which I case i'm still right, but less so _________________________ Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#837531 - 13/09/07 03:34 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
UnscrupulousChavOffersFoot Silly Chavs Registered: 17/04/02 Loc: Whales	Spike: I think Stone was referring to your original post of: Written by: Spike I looked for videos\tutorial regarding WW but I found only two videos by someone (sorry, forgot your name :P) and i can't see them, dont know why though. _________________________ Do not kick wallman. He will eat your leg. No joke.
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#837532 - 13/09/07 04:56 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
TheBovrilMonkey Liquid Cow Registered: 03/09/01 Loc: High Wycombe, England	Written by: Search I don't like the original "Waist Wrap" move that people first used, which was just split time spinning at your side in wall plane - or pretty much just a split-time tuck turn (from the Free Lessons - HERE) continuously. Yeah, I also don't like that definition, because it's only a sixth of a full waist wrap. Just like this one: Written by: Right, Waist Wrap to me, that is in poi terms, is wall plane with one hand BTB - that's it. Written by: It also made what i'd call a waist-wrap move a "BTB waist wrap" - which sounds overly complicated and wordy and only one hand is BTB anyway. Not quite - it'd be wallplane hip circles with one hand btb Closest to BTB waist wrap would be one pair of circles there, a pair of circles behind your back, then a pair of circles (with the other hand behind your back) on the other side, then a carry (or possibly more circles if you're nigel ) back to the start. I'd call that a BTB half waistwrap. I'm all for making terms more economical to use, and I accept that maybe a lot of people don't recognise the term 'full waist wrap' anymore, but I also don't see why we have to abandon terms that've been fairly well defined (in Anna Jillings' book, the wikipoidia, Michal's poi book and, I think, the Gandini club swinging dvd), for a while now. Edited by TheBovrilMonkey (13/09/07 05:05 AM) _________________________ But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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#837533 - 13/09/07 08:38 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: TheBovrilMonkey]
Stone Carpal \'Tunnel Registered: 13/06/01 Loc: Melbourne	Hi sp1ke333, I posted a link to a sample video at media circus. It’s from the Gandini club swinging dvd, and has a full fountain. The lower part of the fountain is a waist wrap. Search do a Durbs. Warning: If you wade into this one with your own definitions you could possibly drown, if you are winding us up you could also possibly drown I'll bump the Club/torch swinging thread. Well said Bov. I'd call that a BTB half waistwrap, a hipster or waist circle. All precursors to the waist wrap. Nigel’s extra circles are what I think of a the hip tangle (double) start in front of left leg. _________________________ The ingredients of health and long life are Great temperance, open air, Indian Clubs, little care.
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#837534 - 13/09/07 08:46 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: TheBovrilMonkey]
Durbs Classically British Registered: 23/09/01 Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England	Well, I guess it's the difference between "Waist Wrap" being a specific move and a variation/body position. Written by: Sir Bov of the Monkeys Not quite - it'd be wallplane hip circles with one hand btb ...except, depending on your point of view, wall-plane hip circles each have one hand btb for half a beat In my mind, "waist wrap" implies something being wrapped around the waist, which the "split time tuck turn repeated" doesn't have. "Full Waist Wrap" I never fully understood, other than being what I'd call a proper (;)) waist-wrap, but then I don't get why you'd name something "Full", as this just means it's the proper/complete version Yay! Bring on more semantic waffling _________________________ Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#837535 - 13/09/07 08:47 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
Durbs Classically British Registered: 23/09/01 Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England	Incidentally, i'd like to point to the top of this thread at the large words saying "Poi Moves". Take all your badly named club swinging moves with you, and don't let the door hit you on the way out _________________________ Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#837536 - 13/09/07 10:29 AM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
TheBovrilMonkey Liquid Cow Registered: 03/09/01 Loc: High Wycombe, England	Written by: Search "Full Waist Wrap" I never fully understood, other than being what I'd call a proper (;)) waist-wrap, but then I don't get why you'd name something "Full", as this just means it's the proper/complete version I think it's just to give it more emphasis that the full waist wrap is the proper/complete version. Otherwise people very quickly pick up on the behind the back part as a waist wrap but don't generally include the bit in front as well Written by: In my mind, "waist wrap" implies something being wrapped around the waist, which the "split time tuck turn repeated" doesn't have. I agree, which is why a repeated split time tuck turn isn't a waistwrap. It's a part of one, but only in the same way that a circle spun at your side is part of the weave. _________________________ But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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#837537 - 13/09/07 07:13 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Stone]
sp1ke333 Member Registered: 14/05/07	Written by: Stone Hi sp1ke333, I posted a link to a sample video at media circus. It’s from the Gandini club swinging dvd, and has a full fountain. The lower part of the fountain is a waist wrap. yes i found it! Thanks for the video!
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#837538 - 13/09/07 07:24 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: TheBovrilMonkey]
Stone Carpal \'Tunnel Registered: 13/06/01 Loc: Melbourne	Excuse me, mr search, Written by: Incidentally, i'd like to point to the top of this thread at the large words saying "Poi Moves". Take all your badly named club swinging moves with you, and don't let the door hit you on the way out I’ll think you’ll find that nearly all (say 80%) of the “so called” poi moves discussed at HOP, originate from club swinging. Certainly Maori short poi is nothing like what you describe as poi. This has all been discussed before. Bov put some links on page one, I recommend doing a search and some home work. Try Jillings or Kahn. Then come back when you can make a positive contribution. cheers _________________________ The ingredients of health and long life are Great temperance, open air, Indian Clubs, little care.
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#837539 - 13/09/07 08:26 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Stone]
Durbs Classically British Registered: 23/09/01 Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England	Sheesh, there seems to be an awful lot of missed sarcasm in this here thread Aaaaaaaaaanyway, yes yes modern poi derives many things from club swinging. I don't want to turn this into another arguement about semantics and definitions - however I would possibly offer up the suggestion that many of the poi spinners I know use the term waist-wrap to describe the position, as opposed to specific move - what jugglers would call a half contortionist I think (or half straight jacket?). Possibly as many of them haven't read club swinging books or Drew's-I-mean-Michal's poi swinging book PS. I thoroughly enjoyed being told to do a search, i love the taste of irony in the morning _________________________ Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#837540 - 13/09/07 08:35 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
Durbs Classically British Registered: 23/09/01 Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England	Also, if it strictly means a certain move, how would you explain w/w butterflies, 5bt w/w weaves and such-like? _________________________ Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#837541 - 13/09/07 08:50 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: TheBovrilMonkey]
PinkNigel Pinker than thou Registered: 04/05/06 Loc: A little pink world all my own...	Written by: TheBovrilMonkey I'm all for making terms more economical to use, and I accept that maybe a lot of people don't recognise the term 'full waist wrap' anymore, but I also don't see why we have to abandon terms that've been fairly well defined (in Anna Jillings' book, the wikipoidia, Michal's poi book and, I think, the Gandini club swinging dvd), for a while now. .."For a while" being since they all got the name from the Schatz book, I'm thinking... _________________________ A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)
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#837542 - 13/09/07 09:12 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
Stone Carpal \'Tunnel Registered: 13/06/01 Loc: Melbourne	Ok, perhaps that was a bit harsh. I agree the name waist wrap sucks. I learn't it as the fountain, though these days I think the waist wrap might be a bit different. I'll have a go at explaining the fountain later. But basically it hooks up together, the front with the BTB fountain (waist wrap) into full in front fountain. It’s a great sequence. The building blocks are the exercises you describe. I call them waist circles; joined together they are called the hip coffee grinder Written by: Also, if it strictly means a certain move, how would you explain w/w butterflies, 5bt w/w weaves and such-like? Ok for a start the 80% of moves I referred to were the basic moves. Some have names, most are just exercises. Like, you would hardly go to a juggling conventions with your own definition of a cascade. These moves are also well documented in books by Jillings, Kahn, Schatz and others. The waist wrap is a 2 or 4 beat move (follow circles). The five beat weave, like it’s cousin the three beat weave, is not a basic part of waist wraps or fountains. Though you can change gear by chucking in an over/under. This will take you from a 2 beat move to the three beat weave (cross and follow). Also from a lower to top fountain, sans the carry/pass. _________________________ The ingredients of health and long life are Great temperance, open air, Indian Clubs, little care.
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#837543 - 13/09/07 09:25 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Stone]
Durbs Classically British Registered: 23/09/01 Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England	Let's not start using the word fountain eh? There's the largest can of worms on the planet there Just a genuine query - "The waist wrap is a 2 or 4 beat move" as in it can be both or you're nor sure which it is? Cos if it can be both, straight off it's rubbish having one name for 2 variations on a move (let alone the dozens of other not-strictly-w/w variations ) Meh - video please _________________________ Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#837544 - 13/09/07 09:45 PM Re: Waist Wrap [Re: Durbs]
TheBovrilMonkey Liquid Cow Registered: 03/09/01 Loc: High Wycombe, England	Written by: PinkNigel .."For a while" being since they all got the name from the Schatz book, I'm thinking... Quite possibly - it's been a fair while since I dug out my copy of Schatz, and it's never easy reading at the best of times, so I couldn't remember if he mentioned the waist wrap at all. Written by: Durbs however I would possibly offer up the suggestion that many of the poi spinners I know use the term waist-wrap to describe the position, as opposed to specific move - what jugglers would call a half contortionist I think (or half straight jacket?). Possibly as many of them haven't read club swinging books or Drew's-I-mean-Michal's poi swinging book That's one of the reasons I've been making sure to add the 'full' in front of the waist wrap. I'm starting to think it's futile to keep insisting that the term waist wrap is used just for the whole club swinging pattern and not anything that involves one hand crossed behind your back. But I'd still like the full pattern to have a proper name. I'll see if I can borrow a video camera from someone at Bristol for a while and make a video. Hopefully that'll include what I've provisionally named a 'head wrap' (an upside down waist wrap with the behind the back parts changed to behind the head) _________________________ But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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