#831306 - 29/06/07 01:19 AM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: [Nx?]]
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newbie
Registered: 27/06/07
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Written by: UnderControlOrFailure
I think Motley means in Wheelchairplane, not wall plane.... I think...
If you can do those, crossed, in wallplane, I'll eat the first fat person I see.
When I do this guy, I keep my hands crossed at the wrist, which could be considered a crosser in that you don't come out of the arms being crossed thing... but that's a whole different arguement.
I vote for 3:1 butterfly hybrid.
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#831307 - 29/06/07 01:24 AM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: BlueHairSarah]
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Scoiattolo de mare
Registered: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
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oops cole, You best get the ketchup out, I just realised that crosser garthgoof/mercadese/bfhybridgoof is pretty easy as a crosser.... T 
_________________________
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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#831309 - 29/06/07 10:43 AM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: UnscrupulousChavOffersFoot]
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Hyperlight zealot
Registered: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
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I can just about do a Mercedes ( ) both ways now, but as I do it crossed with hand underneath long arm, it makes the direction switch less neat as I need to spend a beat swapping over 
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#831310 - 29/06/07 09:54 PM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: Yakumo]
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monkey
Registered: 11/10/02
Loc: London
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Yakumo - Why swap over? Should work crossed either way. After all, if your hands are together, whether\which way they're crossed is pretty trivial except for aesthetics. How about crossing at the elbows instead?  i don't see the reason for cole needing ketchup  crossing arms is nothing to do with whether or not antispin is isolated, or am i missing something?
_________________________
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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#831311 - 29/06/07 10:02 PM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: simian]
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Hyperlight zealot
Registered: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
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I just found the way I can get it to work cleanly, comfortably for me at the moment, is with the hand doing the longarm as the hand underneath, wrists crossed. so when i change direction, as the longarm hand switches from right to left or vice versa, i have to change my crossover over. yesterday was the first time i'd got it working in both directions reasonably though, so I've plenty of time to experiment to go 
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#831312 - 29/06/07 10:53 PM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: Yakumo]
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Silly Chavs
Registered: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
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simian- you dont see the need for Cole needing Ketchup? Well, me and him do look very similar. So much so, that Nx gets us confused very easily.
_________________________
Do not kick wallman.
He will eat your leg.
No joke.
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#831314 - 30/06/07 05:33 AM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: [Nx?]]
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big and good
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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yepyep - happy birthday jonny-yoo 
meanwhile, at the supergeekfriends' secret lair...
Written by: simian
Written by: cole
three loops is the minimum number of loops you can spin with a poi in an antispin pattern that starts and ends at the same point.
Really? why not two? because you can't move your hand fast enough? or because its not "proper" antispin then?
why not two?
two reasons: because of gravity and because poi are not solid.
same reasons as why you can't make a trammel with poi.
Written by: simian
Also, if both the spin poi and the anti poi are travelling the same distance, i'd have thought that you'd have points rather than loops.
the loopy-ness of the antispin pattern is dictated by the size of the big circle (the path both hands follow) and by the speed at which you move your hand along that path.
i assume we all agree on that cos its been clearly proved by the god of epicylclic motion, the one and only 'mafamatix'.
so, consider the move symmetrically - i.e. do the big circle one way then the other way.
the possibility that switch itself suggests to me that the poi don't change linear speed and, if that is the case, they must travel the same distance, whether they are doing the spin or the antispin part of the pattern.
having said that, i haven't done the maths so you may well be right that the pointy-bendy-triangle pattern would be equal in distance to the longarm circle rather than the trefoil.
the antispin poi would in that case have to move slightly faster than the other, since the trefoil is a longer path than the pointy-bendy-triangle.
its only a tiny bit longer though, so the antispin poi only has to spin a tiny bit faster.
my point is IF the poi are moving at different speeds, there's still absolutely no way whatsoever that this move is a 3:1 polyrhythm.
i still reckon that the garthybrid is 1:1 but until i can be bothered to work out the path lengths to prove it i won't argue that point too hard
if its not 1:1, it'll be some meaningless speed ratio like 1.2:1.
the reason i say ratios like that (i.e. non-integer ratios) are meaningless is because you only spin at those kinds of ratios when the moves themselves create them - you couldn't intentionally spin at that ratio and maintain it through a variety of moves otherwise the poi would end up out of time for every move other than the first one.
tonnes of moves have small speed adjustments like that - its possible that its actually a high majority of moves.
i think the only time its worth considering a move a polyrhythm pattern is when its built on a speed ratio that is made of inetgers (e.g. 2:1, 3:2, 4:3) and thus the move can be linked to other moves that maintain that same polyrhythm.
ergo, the garthybrid is not a polyrhythm whether the trefoil is of equal length to the circle or not 
cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#831317 - 01/07/07 08:57 PM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: garthy]
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member
Registered: 26/12/06
Loc: Colorado
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Disregarding the body, the poi are spinning a flower pattern. And, as the definition of a flower goes, there is no mention of how the body is positioned. So conclusion #1 is that this move is a flower. I actually measured it out, its a 5:6 speed ratio. The big circle being the five, the tri-petal the six. Cole hit the speed dead on, and so 1.2:1 is a meaningless change of speed, and therefore conclusion #2 is that the poi are not polyrhythmic The arms are chasing each other, and one is anti-spin and the other is not, so conclusion #3: the flower is goofy. The poi are spinning opposite, therefore conclusion #4 is that they are spinning butterfly So the traits so far are goofy butterfly flower. Now what about the fact that the hands are together and it is in front of you on the wall plane? good luck  Im goin to bed, I wish I had a good set of poi I guess thats tommorrows project
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#831318 - 02/07/07 01:36 AM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: Moloch]
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Scoiattolo de mare
Registered: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
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its still polyrythmic even if the distance traveled is the same, because the rythum comes from the poi hitting the top/bottom of its arc (or other abitary point, as long as you measure by the same point each time). So the longarm circle hits top and botto once each per round while the trifoil has two 'circles' (things like this get veeera confusing in antis-pain). I think its just a classic 2:1 polyrythum, certainly to learn it i spent a lot of time doing just 2:1 and then incorperating the hand movements. and i dont think its 6:5 or sommit strange like that, because in order to swich you have to start and finnish bang on splittime, and even the slighest sloppyness in timing results in tangle. Ive got a new name for the family too (of this move, im still not sure what to call it when both wrists describe the same circle) lets call it: The Isle of ManT
_________________________
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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#831321 - 02/07/07 11:23 AM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: Yakumo]
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newbie
Registered: 27/06/07
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See, now... I count polyrhyms by the number of completed circles. The long arm does one full circle, and the other hand does 3- one for each petal. So that would make it a 3:1... Ive never heard of the no. of times it passes a particular point method of counting, and I have noOOoo idea how you got 5 out of the longarm...
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#831322 - 02/07/07 11:02 PM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: [Nx?]]
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monkey
Registered: 11/10/02
Loc: London
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huh? what's the Isle of Man? Is it a goofy butterfly flower? Or is it a goofy butterfly flower when your arms are parallel same direction (like the move we've been discussing) as opposed to butterfly\splittime-butterfly\split-time same direction? garthy - i reckon i've been having this "you can't 1:1 antispin with poi" argument with cole for over a year now, and he keeps nearly winning until i forget why he's right again... let's hope it goes as well for me as the long running "staff spinning is easy" argument i had with meg it wouldn't surprise me in the least if G already had clean 1:1 antispin poi circles (or "ovals\lines" to be more accurate). Oooh i can't wait till play...
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#831323 - 02/07/07 11:27 PM
Re: Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)
[Re: BlueHairSarah]
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monkey
Registered: 11/10/02
Loc: London
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Written by: BlueHairSarah
See, now... I count polyrhyms by the number of completed circles. The long arm does one full circle, and the other hand does 3- one for each petal. So that would make it a 3:1... Ive never heard of the no. of times it passes a particular point method of counting, and I have noOOoo idea how you got 5 out of the longarm...
if you do a stall, then move your hand in a circle, the poi head does a "completed circle". Is that a "beat" of the "rythym"? In the same way, how is the little 'petal' my poihead makes in an antispin pattern a "completed circle"? The loops can be accentuated to make them bigger, smaller or even into points. When tiny loops turn into epicylcic points, the poi is suddenly making far fewer 'circles' while not really travelling a much shorter distance (or taking less time or going slower).
and basically, "beats" are kind of arbitrary aren't they? Lots of different ways of counting beats can make sense, depending on what aspect of the timing of the spinning you're trying to describe.
Gosh i'm full of digression aren't i?
_________________________
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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Its wickedly hard, but so beautiful. I've only seen Durbs do it 45 seconds into the patio, I wish there was more than one cycle though, then it might be said to be epicyclic 
as the Cole train said 
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