#758049 - 26/07/06 04:05 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: mcp]
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110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Registered: 11/10/02
Loc: London
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Written by:
(I think) the default anti-spin weave is the anti-spinised equivalent of doing constantly translated isolations. ie: you're just isolating in one direction in front of you, doing the normal one bit iso, and constantly translating the staffs. (changing the ends that are 'together')
I disagree, the 'translation' is an effect of the antispin itself.
The spin spin of a 3bt antispin weave is like the "rowing" isolations with sticks, where you keep one end of each staff isolated in front of you, but while doing a 3bt weave.
but the easier version is the antispin of the simple rowing iso (where arms don't twist over each other at all)
other ideas...
cross pollination of superspin with antispin is rather pretty i think
changing the phase of a staff so that you gradually change from making star based shapes with the length of the staff, to describing the sides of a polygon. (4 point = cross\box) The effect on the wick trails brought about by the change are really interesting and still rather mindbending for me.
You can emphasise different aspects of the antispin. A true antispin circle makes very different trails to an antispin circle thats been emphasised to, for example, make the wicks isolate vertically and horizontally (circle vs "curvy diamond")
and antispin doesn't have to be circles, it can go in ovals of any dimension (fat, thin, tall, short) or bumpy circles or swastikas (a really visually impressive pattern thats got a real bad rep thanks to those pesky nazis)
for example, instead of making an ordinary cross isolation, you can make a pattern like two crosses joined at the side, like this: ++
only joined up properly. So halfway through the pattern the "centre of rotation" of the whole pattern jumps to one side, then back to the other.
or you could do it like this:
+
+
but only with a tiny staff or long arms or long legs.
hmm, i'm kinda rambling and being confusing aren't i?
ooh and phase baby. it's all about the phase. try a move where the staff starts vertically with it horizontal in the same hand position. Then try it diagonal. then get really confused. Now superspin it. Now fall over.
oh and all that applied to single staff really. but thats the same as doubles. theres just two of them.
_________________________
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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#758050 - 26/07/06 04:22 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: simian]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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Written by: simian
Written by:
(I think) the default anti-spin weave is the anti-spinised equivalent of doing constantly translated isolations. ie: you're just isolating in one direction in front of you, doing the normal one bit iso, and constantly translating the staffs. (changing the ends that are 'together')
I disagree, the 'translation' is an effect of the antispin itself.
<slap> that makes no sense.
So in order to anti-spin a normal isolation you have to use tranlations. But it's not an anti-spin version of an translated isolation.
either it's an anti-spin version of a translated isolation, or it has to be translated because otherwise the anti-spin doesn't work and it has a non anti-spin analogue that isn't 'just' a constantly isolated translated weave or a isolated weave.
Because applying anti-spin to something should mean you assume the application of translation too, in order to make it work.
Written by: simian
oh and all that applied to single staff really. but thats the same as doubles. theres just two of them.
Oh, so that's why you illustrated your ideas with two pluses rather than one...
and if you just applied it to single staff it would be dull and easy and I could understand it, whereas if you apply it to two, I can't understand it. See that's an empirical difference that is.
non-stupid reply:
wait wait wait, are you saying to move the cross shape of an anti-spin movement in a circle that is itself anti-spin? So that not only the arm is anti-spinning, but the pattern created by the staff is moving in a circle... (or any other pattern) That would be cool. I think that would be compound circles ish.
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#758051 - 26/07/06 08:46 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: mcp]
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From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Registered: 08/07/03
Loc: Edinburgh
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You are both insuferable geeks and that is all i have to say about this conversation  although I will be asking meg to explain it on thursday 
_________________________
Viva UGLY STAFF
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#758053 - 26/07/06 08:32 PM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: TheApprovingNinja]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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So you must have the five point pentagon / pagan star and the three point triangle / flux capacitor also. Though at least for the box / cross the difference is mostly in the spinner, and not much in the pattern. (apart from the turning of the pattern.) The difference being in which lines you emphasise. The three beat weave with staffs anti-spun is pretty different from my extra beat anti-spin weave. Just gotta try the btb 3b weave anti-spun.... Forgot to try and join the crosses last night... will try harder at lunchtime. Plus all these weaves would be much more fun with random direction changing isolations chucked in... 
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#758054 - 26/07/06 09:15 PM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: mcp]
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Pirate Ninja
Registered: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
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To me, A doubles anti spin weave feels like an extension of translations where the translation is extented (rotated) to the point that it must cross the body in order to be continious. In short. there is no decent way to describe this and agree... it has to do with geekology and personal preference. I understand meg better that the monkey, but he knows what he's doing, no doubt. Strugz, maybe you can come back and explain it when meg shows you.  That way we can have it in three completly different languages. I havent played to much with this. But, my lovely Amelie has. After four dys of learning double staff she has cracked most or cetainly alot of variations. Including but not limited to hybrids (polyrythyms), flowers both paralell and butterfly and so on. its very impressive and yes meg, it does look cool. I want more, I reckon antispin is good for your brain in a different way to normal spin...
_________________________
Love is the law.
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#758059 - 27/07/06 01:45 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: mcp]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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the burning question then is exactly how those four crosses join up meg and what the true resulting pattern is...
i think i get what monkey is saying:
the double crosses ++ pattern is a continuous pattern produced by making a new pattern with the hand spinning the stick.
this pattern is like a double, joined-up version of the bendy sided diamond shape that produces the normal cross antispin isolation, no?
kinda like this shape if you join up the gaps on the outside (to make a continuous line enclosing a vaguely figure 8ish shape) with nice bendy-inwards lines:
Code:
^ ^
< = >
v v
the translation between the standard single cross antispin pattern happens on the horizontal lines (although in reality this is actually a bendy line in a smile shape) between the diamonds.
i used an equals sign to show your hand traces it twice - once right to left and once left to right, on its way around the shape.
i think 
i like it in this forum.
its like i can be vague and not care at all that i'm probably both wrong and incomprehensible at the same time :mediatate:
cole.
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#758062 - 27/07/06 02:19 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: coleman]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 06/03/02
Loc: Southampton - Possibly...
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#758063 - 27/07/06 02:48 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: strugz]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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thank-you mr strugz!  
however, i may be destined to never spin a staff normally...
even though i live with princess bambam and have watched you spin for countless hours strugz, my favourite things to do with sticks are still what drew used to do when he got bored doing perfect fishtails (i.e. off centre pendula, off centre spinning and translation) and monkey's techier-than-thou antispin-based wonderfulness.
me playing with a stick is not pleasent to watch and it may well never be.
but i'm having fun playing with my rod and that's what its all about in this forum innit
oh, and i answered my own question to meg in my last post:
if you do the crosses as x's, you can join them up nicely:
staff wick pattern:
Code:
X
X X
X
the hand pattern can then be determined by joining up the outside points of the crosses with those lovely bendy-inwards lines.
i'm not going to try to draw it in ascii but i have it on a piece of paper in front of me
damn you monkey and meg - i have loads of work to do and only and hour and a half left to do it!
cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#758064 - 27/07/06 03:16 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: coleman]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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good, I hope you never spin 'normally' as if there is such a thing... Who wants normal in our little hippy spinning world? Not me.
anyway: simian! quoting myself...
"does it involve going behind the plane of your body? Or snaked anti-spin?
I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row.
If I'm at the left horizontal trying to go up again, which end is going up? the end that used to be horizontal and is closest to the right vertical or the correct vertical end, meaning the horizontal end has to do something in order to get out of the way... ? "
still don't understand, please answer...
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#758065 - 27/07/06 03:28 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: mcp]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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monkey was desribing patterns that the wicks of the stick make.
you are assuming that he is describing hand patterns and are thusly getting confused.
i posted the equivalent hand pattern - did you read it or did you ignore them cos you thought they'd probably be about poi?
as for "does it involve going behind the plane of your body? Or snaked anti-spin?" that's far too complicated for my brain...
i am nonplussed about where i fit in crossovers in these hand patterns - there's probably a bunch of ways but i don't spin sticks so i just imagine doing everything in front of me using fingerspins
told you i'm not normal.
ich bin UNTERNORMALISCHE!!!
cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#758066 - 27/07/06 03:31 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: coleman]
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Flying Water Muppet
Registered: 20/05/03
Loc: Edin-borrow.
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Yeah I know he is talking about sticks, but talking about where the wicks go is all well and good until you find that it is impossible to do because you have to go past triplespin into the territories of mr fantastic.
THe hands makes a giant circle when doing anti-spin, so I don't see how you can have confused it with me talking about vertical and horizontal lines...
_________________________
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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#758067 - 27/07/06 03:42 AM
Re: Doubles Isolated Antispin
[Re: mcp]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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"THe hands makes a giant circle when doing anti-spin, so I don't see how you can have confused it with me talking about vertical and horizontal lines... "
no, they don't - that's exactly what we're talking about, no...?
quote from monkey's first post in this thread:
"antispin doesn't have to be circles, it can go in ovals of any dimension (fat, thin, tall, short) or bumpy circles or swastikas (a really visually impressive pattern thats got a real bad rep thanks to those pesky nazis)"
in order to make the double plus antispin pattern ( ++ ), the hands make the pattern i posted above:
Code:
^ ^
< = >
v v
and like i said, if you just cheat and do fingerspins until you understand at least the hand movements and resulting wick pattern, none of the level of twistyness of any of your joints matters at all.
i know this is poor technique but i reckon the pattern is possible while holding onto the stick too - you just need to work out when and where you need to cross to the opposing plane.
i'd hazard a guess that it would fit neatly into a forwards to reverse figure 8 pattern - now, go prove me wrong (or wait for monkey to turn up again)
cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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unsure as to what precedes me, is it my reputation? 
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