Doubles Isolated Antispin

"does it involve going behind the plane of your body? Or snaked anti-spin?"
how would you do it "snaked antispin" without going behind the plane of your body???
it's a pattern of staff movement, the manipulation to achieve it is secondary the way i see it.

And the ++ doesn't get close to triplespin. As my esteemed colleague Mr Column correctly says, a forward to bacward fig 8 does the business nicely.

maybe you should try putting one of the staffs down miss meg. It makes it easy, you see?

"I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row."

um, bottom left to left vertical?? wha??
and i'd say the antispin prefers to go from vertical pole to vertical pole. Otherwise there's a direction change (which still looks sweet).

"If I'm at the left horizontal trying to go up again, which end is going up? the end that used to be horizontal and is closest to the right vertical or the correct vertical end, meaning the horizontal end has to do something in order to get out of the way... ?"

um, the end that alway goes up there in antispin?

This might help. The two wicks would make interlocking T shapes.

one wick is making this shape: ----]
while the other makes this one: [----
so the two of them together make this: --[--]-- (which is what i meant by ++ )

and coles
Code:

---

  X

X  X

  X

---

is like my ++, only the massive version
which is:
+ +
+ +
but i left that out cos it's impossible without icklesticks.

but you can fit the crosses together anyway you want really, like sticklebricks.

and no, hands don't have to make a giant circle when doing antispin. Well, it depends how you define it really. But mine almost never ever do.

that's not a pattern, it's like join up the dots.

Yeah, but we're not talking about those stylistic versions of anti-spin we're talking about bog standard anti-spin, with a singular movement in the middle to create two anti-spin patterns. After all, box anti-spin hand movements make the space between four circles in a cross, but we don't talk about that. Just the crosses and the boxes. hands aren't on fire after all...

But you answered after a while that you didn't know so that's cool.

Seems like it should work with a closed grip in my head if you went from top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left. But this could just be my head.

Think if I had a hour to kill I might be able to get some sort of under standing of what your on about (but would probably end up with something complete different). Think you should film so sort clips of the basic patterens (not that I would bother cos am lazy but you guys should).

go on, go on, go on

oh, yes, i see now meg - you are mental

translation of the double plus pattern to 'normal' (read 'hands move in circles only' or 'messy') antispin, would equate to something like two circles next to each other:

oo

to link them and maintain the antispin motion, you have to go over the top of the first circle, down to the join *staying on the top* over the top of the second circle then round and then across the bottoms.

"I start from the bottom left, up to the left vertical, then down to horizontal then up again? Or down to the the right bottom, which is probably what my anti-spin wants, rather than getting tricky with those two verticals in a row."

this seems to suggest that you think you link these two antispin circles/patterns by moving your hand in an infinity sign type motion.
and you confirm that line of thought here:

"Seems like it should work with a closed grip in my head if you went from top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left. But this could just be my head."

i can confirm, it is just your head.

that method does not work: if you traced top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left, you end up doing antispin round one circle and spi-spin round the other.

unless you cahnge the direction of rotation of the stick halfway through the pattern.

which is whooooooole nother story




cole. x

ahhhh, I was thinking in terms of starting in the forwards position and then going further away from my body with the second cross, rather than across my body to the reverse figure eight across my body position.

but you don't need to go behind the back to snake up an anti-spin, you might need to get out of the snake without changing direction... but that's another story...

putting down one of the staffs? I haven't picked one up yet...

I think you should try +x or y'know x+ or maybe two triangles or boxes or whatever, that'd be fun... if it wasn't sooo easy...

Do it with two and the pattern might be worth watching without a 8 second exposure on a camera...

for lushness and cross posting fun:

http://maniballe.net/files/antispicn07-2006.mpg

megsed: "box anti-spin hand movements make the space between four circles in a cross, but we don't talk about that"

its less that we don't talk about it and more that you just ignore it...

this was in monkey's first post:

"A true antispin circle makes very different trails to an antispin circle thats been emphasised to, for example, make the wicks isolate vertically and horizontally (circle vs "curvy diamond")"

and this was in my first post:

"the bendy sided diamond shape that produces the normal cross antispin isolation"



x+ doesn't work as a one stick pattern as there are gaps - show us where they join up and we'll tell you how to antispin it


cole. x

nobody cares cole, it's either a box or a cross. Or something else that doesn't look so nice.

Dude, who cares if there are gaps, it's a quarter rotation of the stick, get over it.

"nobody cares cole, it's either a box or a cross. Or something else that doesn't look so nice."

that comes directly after a post containing a video with little other than cross antispin - that you yourself called "lush"

it does indeed only make a cross, but the way the wicks move through the cross is beautiful.

if you really think it 'doesn't look so nice', its probably because you're crap at it still - maybe when there's a contact version, you'll decide its hard enough to bother getting anywhere near clean...


until then, i apologise sincerely - please excuse my efforts to aid your understanding empress meg.

i truly did not realise when i started posting here that "if meg doesn't understand it yet then it doesn't count for sh!t".

i'll come back later when your brain has caught up...




cole. x

box and cross

you're mixing up hand movements and wick movements there aren't you?

the "box" antispin patterns make two perpendicular pointed ovals (like two of these: () crossed over)

how do you make a box with antispin? The only way i can think of doing it is spin-spin...

ON AN ENTIRELY SEPERATE NOTE
i still think the coolest thing about the bendy diamond pattern is that it's actually a circle thats been cut into quarters then turned inside out.

yeah, but what I am saying is the two most easily stated patterns that something makes in those patterns.

or you could just say:

"the bendy diamond pattern is that it's actually a circle thats been cut into quarters then turned inside out."

or

"After all, box anti-spin hand movements make the space between four circles in a cross,"

though I should have said outline.

or I could say box.

well kinda, but box hand movements make all sorts of different shapes, depending on the phase of the staff.

argh, just tried thinking about it without stretching first...

just got a mental infinite regression of box in diamond in box in diamond etc... while i was totally unprepared for it.

my head hurts now

ARGH

I want to watch this: http://eclectech.co.uk/thehump.php

but the sound doesn't work on my computer.... argh!

Yeah, that video by pich is almost enough to make me pick up four balls, the only thing that's stopping me is the completely ineffectual nature of horizontal anti-spin for anybody other than flying squirrels passing overhead.

Yeah I tried those patterns last night and they didn't seem very engaging. Just like doing a couple of anti-spins together. Something I've played with before but never thought about.

I don't know what the 'swoopy' business is in the monkey's first post thou, care to explain?

making a cross anti-spin travel over two crosses that don't cross your body (forwards and forwards, instead of forwards and reverse) is possible too, just with having to make an infinity sign around the points instead of doing them in the order that the monkey states. Might look alright if it was hella tight.

my personal favourate at the moment is getting isolations really smooth so i can do vertically with sticks the stuff done in pich's video horizontally, with balls.

full butterfly weave should make for a fun attempt at anti-spin. esepcially with the figure of eight transfer, when I learn it, or the one beat transfer.

yeah, pich has an overhead camera/projector setup that he uses to perform with i believe.

whereas, i'm not a performer so i don't care at all that no-one else gets to see the beauty in my hands

as you well know, to get those crosses really clean, you have to be well down with the bendy diamond hand pattern - doing this will, i'm certain, bring you around to the opinion that just moving your hand in circles (rather than in specific shapes that accentuate different parts of the antispin pattern) is crap

"making a cross anti-spin travel over two crosses that don't cross your body (forwards and forwards, instead of forwards and reverse) is possible too, just with having to make an infinity sign around the points instead of doing them in the order that the monkey states. Might look alright if it was hella tight."

i'm assuming you mean to do it on the right then do it on your right, then on your left in wheelplane?

if you do the cross in an 'infinity path order', the infinity sign must be 'folded' around you so the join is the crossover point in front of you.

relative to someone watching you from your side, you are always going the same way round the circles and they see an overlapping cross - is this not just an antspin double fig 8?

if the pattern is flat to an outside observer (i.e. it like this ++) and you do it in the same plane, but describe the crosses in the order of an infinity sign, to maintain antispin motion, you would have to reverse the direction of the stick's spin on the middle horizontals.

though tricky, this actually makes the trick possible as your arm then twists up on the left cross and untwists on the right one


and no - i don't get the swooshy pattern mr monkey was suggesting by 'transposing the left and right verticals' either...


cole. x

wow, i read it all, understood none of it. not word.

then i read your last post meg and now i get it... in a flash it all becomes clear...

first bit:
sorry meg - i don't understand what you're doing...

tracing an infinity sign with your hand would mean mean that you travel round one half of the pattern clockwise and the other anticlockwise.

unless you reverse the direction of spin of the stick as you go from one side of the infinity pattern to the other, one half will be spin and the other antispin, no?


second bit:

are cross antispin and box antispin not the same thing?

its monkey's buzzword of the week innit: "phase"

checkit:
do box antispin using mr bendy diamond.
stop at any point and rotate the stick 90 degrees.
continue and you should be doing cross antispin.
do you see?


cole. x