Fire poi made completely out of kevlar

well, i got the idea from Tepooka Toys at PLAY, they had prototype fire poi made completely out of kevlar, it was basically a knot for a handle, and they wrapped kevlar around the bottom for the head.
my friend bought 5 meters of kevlar rope at play and we made poi like that too, at the top we had this knot for the handle, at the bottom we had a monkey fist (2 wraps in each direction). these poi worked great, too bad we didnt soak them in paraffin and they were ruined .
anyway i might make those again, any suggestions for knots for the handles that will give the handle weight? and do you think they're safer than regular fire because there's no metal (as in i'll be able to do wraps without getting burnt)?

Does that mean you only should dip the very end knot? I could imagine people wanting to soak a partial amount of the 'chain' part also to get a cooler effect, but wouldn't the possibility then that the fuel soaks up into the handles then? It sounds like this temptation could make them really dangerous.

I met a German guy last year (damn Im so bad with names, did it start with an M?) that had fire meteors with a type of kevlar rope instead of chain, which I must say for handwraps and whatnot the far better construction is. But the rope looked really different, it had an extra synthetic braid on the outside that made it even less likely to light up somehow. I think he said he got it in some kind of rock climbing shop. If your out there could you post maybe the details?

yeah they told me that the fuel can go up the rope if i soak it too long, the point of those poi isnt to be like fire snakes, but to be like regular fire poi, but more comfortable and safe (and believe me, those are the best fire poi i've ever used, i've even managed to do contact poi kickups with them when i could barely do them with socks)

sound exactly like the ones mr bovril monkey (or was it mr chutney...?) made a year or so ago.

i remember playing with them at a falmouth and saying something like "oooooh, these are *seriously* nice...".

anyway, one of those two guys might be able to give you some idea as how to weight your handles.

good luck with your next set of them


cole. x

yeah simian had a pair of those but with a different knot at the bottom, he told me mr chutney made it for him

OK

Matt, Matt Terry, Spherculism MATT made the ropes that I copied I first saw his set almost 2 years ago and he had had them for the best part of a year then. I inadvertently leaked the idea and so here we are with Chutney ropes left right and centre. I deserve only the credit of a plagarist (an enthusiastic one no less).

Before people go telling everyone to make them it MUST be recognised that FIREPOI OF THIS DESIGN ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

They are just one big wick and there is absolutely nothing preventing your poi from soaking completely and burning you. Also the rope above the dipped knot of a head gets extremely hot and will no doubt perish in time- at some point, the rope will fail and it is likely the head will come off during a spin. I say again; FIREPOI OF THIS DESIGN ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

No new spinner should play with these as they will punish and hurt the inexperienced (both in poi spinning and proximity to fire toys and the dangers).

I'm sorry to be all fire and brimstone, but in the wrong hands people really could be seriously injured and I really, really don't want it ever to the the case that someone comes on HOP one day with a 'chutney ropes burned my face' or something like that.

That said.

They offer a level of feel and control which is unsurpassed- they are more throwable (again, read the dangers), wibbleable (if you construct them well) and in theory are safer for wraps as they don't have the metal which is often the culprit in burning spinners.

Thay also have their limitations. They don't tangle very well (the rope needs to be thick which in turn makes it less flexible)- airwraps are find and 'normal' (sorry rev) cross body hyperloops are acceptable, but no extended tangling is really possible. You also need to be pretty dextrous (?!) when attempting buzzsaw and antispun moves as the rope will twist and turn, making the spin less predictable.

Handle construction is an area I'm just getting into myself poiboy- bearing in mind that the weighting of the unlit poi will change significantly with the dipped weight of the heads (and throws also change with the wind resistance of the fire.) I'm experimenting with my fourth set and I've still yet to reach my ideal set.

My bag is empty, the cat has left...

I was experimenting with this design around three years ago and have follwed this subject with some interest, I was never really happy about relying on a kevlar only build and was concerned about rope failures and head detachments, ended up going down a different routes, although I did made a few of these, they seemed to last fairly well.

mark

Maybe you could reinforce the rope at the head with an extra layer of kevlar tightly sown with kevlar string around it to protect the rope. If put on snug enough the extra kevlar coating would be the only thing that burns and not the actual rope holding the weight.

A friend of mine made her kevlar ropes entirely out of regular kevlar wick that she folded up and then sewed together with kevlar string. They not only burned longer, but toy lifetime was longer, and since the material is much stiffer she never had to worry about tangles (for her this was bonus points).

great idea, i thought of doing that, i'll try that when i get some kevlar

Essentially that is where I went with my snake builds, either 65 or 120mm wick spiral wrapped around a chain former, this is individually stitched through each chain link, I have also used tubular kevlar wick as a shroud around regular kevlar rope.

mark

since PLAY is approaching and i want to make these, is there any solution to the problems with them soaking the fuel up the whole rope or with the rope above the wick breaking off?

Bovril tried whipping the rope with kevlar thread to stop it drawing fuel up the wick. i think it worked, not sure though.

regarding the rope breaking above the wick... im not sure what you can do about that
I think its just wear and tear.

would thinner rope be good? like 1/4 inch? since the monkeyfist would burn for a shorter time? also putting it out using damp towels instead of spinning it out?

I doubt it.

Actually.. doing no hyperloops or airwraps would probably work..

Thinner rope would be worse as it would break quicker.

The 'original' set that Simian had failed a while back, just as predicted- the head flew off mid spin- not safe, not clever

I still haven't really got to a decent fire poi construction- I've only burnt once in the last year or so and it really isn't a driving factor in my playing at the moment.

The thinner rope, greater flexibility thing is a real shame as it inherently weakens the design and that design is already critically flawed.

Before failing, the section just above the wick had become very obviously frayed and degraded. I was saying it was only a matter of time before it broke about a week before they actually died.

So if i'd been responsible and sensible then I'd have scrapped them on safety grounds when i noticed the damage.

Before they failed they were easily the nicest fire poi i've ever used.

Monkey! Nice to see you around these parts

I wasn't suggesting that you were irresponsible- if that was the understanding i'll reword my post- I merely meant that the poi are pretty dangerous and tha they will inevitably fail (albeit if you don't take heed of their deteriroation).

Re their difference in spin due to rope twist- they probably break in quite a bit, so the effect is lessened, and your particular set were very well bedded in. Early in their life the ropes are quite structurally rigid and, in comparison to my hyperloop cone poi for example, are far less flexible.

just a quick question, does any one know if white spirit is ok for fire poi?