Fuel names

No,it isn't a good idea to use turps.

This has been discussed in eg this, and other threads previously.
Good idea to search the forums, cos often there has already been an answer. Otherwsie someone might poke you for being angelic but lazy

Learn to look up the MSDS (material safety data sheet) of substances on the internet; Eg you will find the flashpoint of turps is 30°. That is not as low as what some people use (eg the very volatile white gas) but obviously below what a lot of us are tending to (the higher flashpoint odourless fuels.) Becasue they are generally sold as industrial solvents ( unless you have a juggle shop around that repackages and resells them), you might have to buy a drum. then you can do your mates a favour and sell it on cheap to them.

The other point is toxicity, and this is what is discussed in the link above.

Hello, i always feel out of place in the tech forums, but bear with me...

So, I'm bumping this cuz it has nice info on D70 which has been very helpful in my plight.

However, what i'd like to know is has anyone tried using D70 for tracing/eating? If so, how did it go? would you recomend it? does it do trails with the tracing?

(more interested in tracing at the moment, eating's still a bit scary, i like my teeth too much, but i'd like to know out of curiosity anyways)

its called firesol or firelite.if your in queensland you can get it at gooble warming or down at the goldie at palm beach there is a twirling shop there

For the reference of future searchers for fuel names, I stumbled across this page which has some fuels that are not mentioned on the the article at the top of this thread.

http://web.mit.edu/mitoc/www/activities/hiking/fuel.html

I might add that Shellsol D60 has been compared to "Fire Water"

They's is the same thing...

Speaking of uel names. I'm after some denatured alcohol or pure methylated spirit (UK) anyone know the best place? mostly as I'm doing the old coloured flames, wondered if minralised meths woould effect colour due to minerals.

i know around here most hardware stores have the denatured alcohol near the paint thinners and such.

No, they generally is not. d60, isopar G etc are names given by refiners/chemical wholesalers for industrial solvent/lubricants used in eg the printing industry. Here in Bris many of us have been buying directly from the chemical bulk suppliers for years, and find that different chemicals which are potential fire fuels are available at different times. Isopar G, the fuel I have been buying lately (in preference to d60) is used to lubricate sheet steel. It currently sells for about $85 for a 20 litre drum and is very clean.

'Firewater', 'Firesol' etc are brand names used by juggling shops who buy these sorts of chemicals in bulk, repackage and market them to firetwirlers. Those shops may or may not use d60- but usually they do not. Sometimes I call the local juggling shops and ask them what they are currently repackaging. It has only rarely been d60, which has a slightly higher flash point and therefore is slighty harder to set alight, is smokier and slightly smellier than the fuels (often Isopar G or H; previously KsolT etc) that are sold as Firewater or Firesol. Some people prefer d60 as it is not as 'flashy'- not as bright a flame, but also noticeably cooler-- this is useful practicing new stuff, also for contact staffers/ people with large wicks.

Well, that is a list, but does not add much to the discussion on fire fuels.
THe Australian varieties listed are:
Kerosene | Petrol | Shellite | methylated spirits|, of which kerosene is the only vaguely useful one, and it is disgusting- which is why nearly everyone uses d60, Firewater etc.

Does anyone use any of the BP products? I am looking around for options, but I can only find MSDS for those is Aus and do not know how they compare to Shell/Engen in RSA.

I have looked at the solvents, but am not really sure what would work. Currently I use paraffin, which I think you call Kerosene, yeah? Am looking for something with less residue.

Hi aston...your best bet is to contact the head office ( in SA ) via email and say you're looking for the SA equivalent of fuels you see mentioned here.

I did this with D60, only to find it's sold as something completely different locally and I'm planning on doing the same with Isopar G.

Pretty hard to beat white gas though...

Thanks for the idea. Will see what I can shake loose.

Back to the maze that is the BP website. :\

See, even white gas is different. It seems to be called Benzine here, which is apparently carcinogenic everywhere else.

ShellSol of some sort seems likely. Depends on if the local station has it or can get it.

Isopar is Exxon, which we do not have.

Hi Aston. For finding equivalents, don't worry too much about the name. Talk to your supplier and read their MSDSs for the flash point of various industrial solvents (which will give you an idea of the volatilty/explosiveness). They will know about odourlessness. Talk to a steel fabricator or printer about what they use for lubricants.... that will give yo a clue too as it is the primary use of them.

Benzene is a common petrochemical, but maybe you are thinking of Butane? which is a common name for white gas.

Aaaaah... the White Gas/Colemans/Shellite is Great but More Dangerous (cos it leaves wicks very clean but is more hot,volatile and explosive etc) discussion again. THis has been going on forever!

I found it more time efficient to just email the customer service department directly. So Isopar is Exxon, and if Exxon isn't active as Exxon in SA then they probably own another SA company and do business under that name,

For instance, Exxon does business under the name Imperial oil ( Esso ) here in Canada so I'm a emailing Esso Canada to see what they sell Isopar G as in this neck of the woods.

Chances are you're going to have to go to a wholesaler or bulk supplier, if I want D60 ( Called Vansol 60 locally ) I have a minimum 16kg bucket that I can buy + shipping, because I live on an island. there's nowhere I can just drive to to pick some up.

White gas *shouldn't* be called benzine, seeing as how benzine is a specific chemical, more properly it's called naptha which isn't to say it doesn't have benzine ( along with all sorts of other nasty stuff ) in it.

Butane isn't white gas, butane is a gas at room temperature and 1 atmosphere pressure ( like propane )so it wouldn't work as a spinning fuel unless you're into really big fireballs

Thanks for that Stout, I had wondered. Butane (sold in tanks) is often used as a fuel for camping stoves here hence my confusion.

White gas is apparently sold here (Oz) as shellite. SOmetimes I have known people to mix it with other fuels for extra buzz and it was dang hot for the staffers.

I've heard all sorts of "explanations" as to what white gas is and my all time favourite was this guy insisting that it was a completely non-toxic vegetable product.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is an excellent fuel but only if you're willing to manage the risks. I'm kins of paranoid myself, so I've never had an accident but I have seen the "burning handles" accident quite a few times due to general sloppiness when it comes to fueling up.

If you get kerosene ( paraffin ) on your poi handles it's still reasonably safe to light up an have your spin. With white gas, however you HAVE to let it dry ( usually a couple of minutes ) otherwise....remember that deleted thread..."another preventable white gas accident" ?

True it can be mixed with other aliphatic compounds, but why bother ? You can get a little extra buzz but the benefits are minimal.

The main reasons we use it are 1) it doesn't stink like a toxic petrochemical soup and 2) it doesn't leave a residue on the ground, which would definitely annoy some of the repeat venues ( hotels, restaurants ) that offer our services to their clients as an extra for their event. Most often we end up spinning on "sensitive" areas, like the pristine lawn,or the feature patio and if those areas reeked of kerosene and had a slippery residue the next day, we figure the proprietors wouldn't be so eager to call us back.

White gas isn't something you want to spill on grass though. If you were to spill it, and it soaked into the ground, it has a half life measured in the hundreds of years and the only way to clean up the spill is to dig up the dirt, burn it and replace it,,,much like the soil remediation done on former gas ( petrol ) station sites.

Long chain aliphatics ( like kerosene, lamp oil ) OTOH tend to biodegrade much more quickly. This is all a function of bacterial decomposition and is directly related to the amount of chemicals that are toxic on a cellular level ( eg benzine ) present in the different fuels. White gas has some of these chemicals, kerosene, relatively little.

So an important question to ask is "what do you want from a fuel?" and also take into consideration how often you burn. If you're one of these 10 burns/night 6 nights/week types, you'll probably live longer with a less toxic fuel. After all, you are breathing this stuff in raw no matter how well you spin off and that residue on the ground after a few spins with kerosene only reinforces this idea.

The solvents are confusing. What, exactly is in Isopar G and D60 ? the chemical makeup of these compounds isn't listed in the MSDS because these products are defined by their physical characteristics rather than anything else. Getting to the heart of this matter ( if your interested ) is best done by establishing an email relationship with an engineer at whatever refinery you get these products from.

Heck...I emailed Coleman's about the makeup of white gas and they replied with " we don't actually know" if it's got a certain viscosity, flashpoint, volatility...then it's white gas ( originally developed as a motor fuel FYI )

From my own reading, I was lead to understand that white gas is petrol with no additives. No idea how accurate this is though.

Well, what's an additive ? That stuff that keeps your fuel injectors clean ? But, yea, it's pretty much the same thing as petrol.

Lamp oil is kerosene with additives to make it smell, and smoke less.

Thanks heaps for your contributions to these topic/knowledge, Stout.