Defining a good spinner

When I first found this site and looked at the video clips of the moves, I decided I wasn't going to actually tell anyone that I was good until I could do all of the moves on that page, but in particular the behind the back weave was my holy grail of poi moves - I decided that once I could pull it off reliably, I could tell people I was reasonably good without feeling as though I was bragging.

However, since I can almost pull off the BTB weave, and after seeing loads of other people spin who are far, far better spinners than I am, I still don't consider myself good.

Since I know that being considered good is very subjective, I thought I'd ask you lot, how do you define being a good spinner?

edit...
Actually, come to think of it, that makes me sound as though I just want to be able to tell people I'm really good at spinning.
That's not really what I mean, I don't really like the idea of telling people how good I am at something or quantifying how good someone is at spinning, but I'm interested in what people have to say, so my question still stands.

[ 12 September 2002, 01:52: Message edited by: TheBovrilMonkey ]

someone who looks amazing doing it and how seems to be a part of their poi..there was this french chick at spittlefields a few weeks ago...(it probably didnt help i was stoned at the time)...and she was abso-fucking-lutly incrediable!! and she was only doing butterfly combinations and variations..she was like move...stop...move...stop...move...stop...move stop...etc
i think her name was corrine (i bet your blushing if your reading this)

btw how was spittlefields this week?

and are you comming mine on sunday?

[ 12 September 2002, 01:55: Message edited by: THE UNITED CHAINS OF FIRE ]

hmm... i had a similar thing when i was learning, cos i always felt that once i could pull off all the moves of my mentor, then i could consider myself to be half decent, cos i always though that he was...

i dunno, the more i spin, and see others spin, the more i realise that u gotta kinda make it ur own, its its more bout the little things that u do, rather than big tricks... There are only so many tricks, so it becomes how smooth u are at the transitions and stuff

when is a spinner smooth enough, well never really... so i dunno, but i might have thrown some ideas around

bollock! must stop doing that!

A firm believer in the fact that every being has potential to be 'good' at anything, I think ALL spinners are good. They may be on different lavels, but they're good none the less.

Plus, all spinners I know have such distinctive styles, I don't really think you can compare them. What I have noticed though is that spinning isn't a way of life for all. Some are completely besotted, while others merely dabble.
I have to say, the best spinner (for me) are those who do it with passion...

UCOF..
I know who yer on about, she's called Carine, and she IS fuking amazing! I don't think she posts her though...
She's been spinning for over three years So thats what WE have to look forward to!!

There was me thinking I'd got 4 replies already, only to discover 3 of them were from Havoc

Do you hit the back button when you're posting or something? I don't know how you get the multiple posts. If you click on the edit button, I think you can delete the extra ones if you want. Having more replies makes me think my threads are popular though, so you could leave them on there

Spittlefields was brilliant, despite it taking so long to get there - it's 2 hours each way for me. I got back home at almost 1 in the morning.
What time are people turning up at yours on sunday? I need to see some people early sunday afternoon, but I could come along for a bit of spinning afterwards. I'm not sure I can stay for fire though, I'll probably need some sleep before I go to work on monday.

yeah, its hitting back, and then when it goes "page has expired" going refresh! i am sorry to all the happy people that thought they had mail!

about 4 ish or so...if you need extra details...i believe you have my number from reading...(if not its either home 02084283979 or mobile 07732878373) see you soon...(where do you live anyway?)

Carine is amazing, as are ......actually I'm not giving people the ego trip that this would be.

Personally I'll never consider myself good, coz I have absolutely no style what-so-ever.....

But there are many peeps out there I do.....
Largely female ones but that's another story - lol

Seriously though, girls are just naturally good coz they slink (*droooooooooooooooooooooooooool*) but then that's something you have to work on if you're a guy.
Being technically good, is different from being rythmically good, which is different again to other stuff.....

Being good is a state of mind, but I know what you mean Rory, being able to do a btb weave doesn't make you it, it is a landmark/milestone but it just impresses the new peeps.

As you get better, you'll still probably not consider yourself good because the people you originally looked up to will still be better (by and large).

DFQ's right though, anyone that does it with a passion kicks ass.........people that do 5 moves flawlessly and with style are just as good as someone that dopes 50 moves ok and with no style at all......especially when it comes to fire.

Just ma thoughts......

agreed with the never considering urself good, cos even if u do get better then who u were looking up too, then there are always more peeps that u go "omg wow!" about, like this carine, who i dont know (unsurprisingly) but who sounds like a person i oughta meet

Yeah nice to finally meet you Mr Bovril Monkey

AND IT'S SPITALFIELDS.....................honestly you peeps

No it's Ewans fault for spelling it like that in the thread title under events.

I only said it coz no-one belives me and I thought i might invoke somekind of argument out of it - lol. (Evil aint I?)

I'm not sensitive about the spelling - hehehehehehe

admit it SmallWun, it broke your wickle heart.

that should read
adwit it smallwun...it bwoke wour wittle weart

Who is that nice man who made my poi look so good on Sat night (sorry, sorry - was stoned and forgot your name!!)

I don't agree that all girls are naturally good, cause they slink. My boyf says I look like a gerky video game character (but think that is more down to fact that I don't practice than a personal style )

It used to bite my ass that the Japanese girls could do a simple weave over and over and make it look so fantastically graceful.

I like watching beautfiully pulled off moves as opposed to technically superior ones, but if you can manage both - then I guess thats a top spinner!

Hmmmm, properly defining a truly good spinner will take weeks of carefull consideration and planning and months of psychoanalysis, tests and mental challenges......ahem.......actually I consider anyone who can spin whatever it is they're trying to spin without dropping it every second to be a good spinner........wait a minute........that includes me.....YAY!!!!!!!!!!

I was working on something new the other day, and my friend was like "Im not used to seeing you fuck up. This is wierd."

That made me feel like I was good.
but then again, all I do is the windmill.

I thought so too, about trying to get 'good'..

I don't think I'll ever be good though, I see too many errors in my own style.

I think its relative though, objectively. To the average person, if you can do anything behind your back, you're amazing. In fact, people cheer when Paddy lies on his back and does a butterfly, but they don't usually cheer when I do a side-2-side btb weave w/ turning.

So I guess, be as good as you want to be.

In my opinion a good spinner is not made up of how many moves they can do. It is if they look graceful, and are one with the poi. You can telll who these people are because they do not spin the poi as an object. To them the poi are an extension of their bodys. This is actually my personal outlook with poi. Some people will refer to people who spin like this as dangerous. These people will never be dangerous as long as they know that they don't control the fire. It controls them. This is why you can make a simple weave look like a piece of art. If you varie speeds you will eventually find that you can make it all look extremely graceful. Yes it is fun to go up to full spin, but it isn't about how fast you can spin or how many moves you can do, it is how graceful you are. Always remember that poi, staff, whatever is just a form of dance and dance is supposed to be graceful

I agree more with DFQ than High master Bram, gracefullness is a style, but passion is irriplaceable. I think the mark of a good spinner is someone who dosnt look like they are thinking about the spinning attall, where they are simply moving thier body and by some freak circumstance crating lovly firy patterns. It should look 'easy', smooth maybe, confident and practiced, litterly doing it with your eyes closed.

Thats from an external perspective, internally, I never feel like Im 'good' even though I know Im a good spinner, Im always reaching for the next kick ass trick and never happy with the smoothness of the last one. As Glass says 'happy begginer'. I still seem to do the same four old tricks even tho if i sit down and think about it I got loads, its just a diffrent set of four tricks each time.

yeah, passion. Someone who spins everyday looks like they spin every day. Practice makes.... well, a good spinner.

Another day, another essay from

Nix?

I gotta say, I often disagree with those that define "good spinner"... I happen to have great appreciation for the technical spinner. As a spinner myself, smooth transition and variety of moves is really stunning to look at.

Perhaps I separate "fire spinning" with "fire dancing". Everyone else seems enthralled by the dancing aspect of it.

I'm surprised by how many real fire spinners think that a girlie who shakes her booty while holding some burning wicks is a better spinner than a clean technical firespinner.

I'd never expect to hear at a juggling show: "Well she really can't juggle all that well but she dances nicely while she moves".

I know that there is a presentation aspect to fire spinning as well. I don't mean to discount that. I'm just generally surprised that the SPINNING COMMUNITY doesn't show as much props for the technical quality of spinning.

I agree with whoever I'm agreeing with...my opinion is that it is the flow iof the energy and moves that makes a good "spinner". One who is at harmony with their instrument, and moves their body without the "carrot up the arse" look. A good example is the staff....there are only really a handful of staff moves and none of them are particularly hard, so pretty much everyone you meet who does the staff can do the same thing- yet there is a definate difference between all the staffers, and it comes down to grace and style, not really technical aspects. The same goes for Poi, I have seen some amazingly technical people, but try as they may, they look like dickheads.
Same with Fire Breathers, some people may be able to blow amazing flames, but they just look like a tosser- lack of grace and style. Anybody who has ever skateboarded, I am sure will agree, and the same goes for a lot of physical activity.....in fact in skateboarding looking cool is more important than being a good skater!!!!

It brings up the most important philosophical question that I think should challenge anyone who is on this forum...Why the hell do you care what people think of you? In asking this topic question, it seems that it is as if one is "Spinning" to look good, and especially to others...surely you should be doing this as a form of self expression and therefore not give a shit what anyone else thinks....??

Generally when one is worrying about what others are thinking it blocks self expression- being self conscious disrupts the natural flow of energy- which means that no matter how technical you are, you still look like a dickhead, because you are to self conscious to let go and truly let your inner spirit flow through your body and instrument, and show the world the real you! (Some of us are really good at faking it....it....this could be called style????)

Defining a good spinner? Ask 20 people and you will get 20 different answers. I agree with NYC, and consider technique, rhythm and a good repertoire to be important criteria for a good spinner.

However, for a great spinner you will probably also need a few intangibles like talent, imagination, creativity, artistry etc.

Sorry, small boy I think know what you mean , but I don’t really agree with: Being technically good, is different from being rhythmically good. Why not??

Seriously though, girls are just naturally good coz they slink... Not necessarily, or do you mean girls are nice to look at, so they have an advantage when it come to performing? Plenty of people (male and female) are just naturally good/gifted. Not necessarily me though. Anyhow, I don't think anyone becomes good without heaps of practice.

oohh, no... a good spinner needs to be smooth!

u can be passionate as hell, and be really into it, but if u aint smooth as well then its gonna look shite!

i mean quite often having that passion creates smoothness, and viceversa, but i dont think u can only have passion...

its a combo of all three me thinks

I havent had time to read this whole post but I generally agree with everything that I have read.

Technical spinning - is about transitions and being able to pull off good combinations of difficult moves.

Rythmical Spinning - Is about listening to the music and completing the moves in time to the music, whilst dancing really.

So what makes a good spinner?

I think personally it is a combination of rythmical and technical spinning, being able to move with the poi and music and basically flow through a set. There has been a point made earlier in the thread that girls look better, I think this is from a blokes point of view and yes I think I would agree. However I would like to pose this question to some of the female spinners on the site :

Do you think male or female spinners look better?

Mark P

Stone:-
OK - a technically good person may be able to do a 5 beat btb weave but if he doesn't move his feet then he's just technically good.

A rythmically good person may be able to look lush but only do windmills, the weave and a few butterflies.....

Both are good, both are different.

Women kick ass.........but then I have a thing for watching women do poi.....so maybe that is just me. (And "slink" sums it up)

Edit to say:- Women just spin totally differently from blokes by and large, if you see a lot of them do it you'll know what I mean.
Not alwayz tru but mostly and I've seen a shit load now.

[ 12 September 2002, 23:17: Message edited by: SmallBoy ]

mostly with NYC on this one....

technical spinners do it for me in terms of goodness....

but great spinners have style as well...

to only have style you have to have a hugehugehuge amount of it to make up for lack of technical ability.....but there are a lot of people like this, who are fully appreciated by me....

and really great spinners have passion and practise loads also....

but most importantly if you are having fun spinning it does not matter how good how stylish etcetcetc you are cause thats the best bit.

x
Rob