#492633 - 04/03/05 07:52 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: Pele]
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enthusiast
Registered: 12/04/04
Loc: bristol, uk
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Written by: Pele
I have to say I am really frustrated with the mentality of many on here.
Until the contest was removed, no one questioned the rules. And now, everyone seems to.
The rules have not changed.
Thanks FNI, as it was what I was about to post when I saw it.
i'm not sure i understand what it is that you're frustrated with  . i think what we're doing is clarifying the rules and coming up with suggestions (some of which i think have been very good) to try to improve the community video.
as far as i can remember the rules have always been clarified in the build up before a col. people discuss it being a competition and ask whether they can enter with certain props  .
this is because the rules have always been a little ambiguous. previous entries have had random things in them, but been dominated by poi or staff. however, i can't remember ever seeing an entry based entirely on one of the "other toys", so i was curious as to how malcolm felt about such things. particularly concerning contact juggling, which is related to poi and staff but you'd be hard pushed to interpret the rules to allow it  .
Written by: Pele
I should think that everyone would be grateful that they weren't cancelled altogether (which, btw, I was a proponent of)
i am grateful they weren't cancelled. i'm not sure why you're so against them. i think they're really rather fun. 
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#492637 - 04/03/05 11:43 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: 2bags]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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Im sad. I was really hoping to enter the competition this year. Sure, its nice to still have a community vid that will also improve our resources but half the fun was in the competition. It was really the only outlet we had for competition and it was a rather innocent way to compete as opposed to "Im better than you, my planes are way cleaner. No man, Im better than you cuz I can do behind the back hyperloops". Now, I know, most of you dont view poi as a competative sport of such and I dont either, for the most part. But it still is nice for those who went the extra mile for their videos, won the competition, and really felt like they have accomplished something by doing so.
And Im still unclear on exactly why the competition is canned... So a lot of people didnt follow the rules, big deal. Those are the people who dont make it onto the video. When CoL ends up having 3 videos on it of the people who actually did follow the rules, perhaps people will get the idea and try harder next time. Same thing with the music issues - people who dont have their own original music or permission to use their music dont make it. IMO, the competitioni wasnt handled right from the start, and in the end, we are the ones suffering from it.
_________________________
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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#492638 - 06/03/05 10:05 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: MikeIcon]
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Stream Entrant
Registered: 13/06/01
Loc: Melbourne
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Many thanks Malcolm, the COL series has been inspirational to us all. But some days you just can’t win, and it’s out of the frying pan and into the fire as they say. I think the bottom line on this one is that you can be reassured that the HOP community will support you 110% in whatever you decide, because Hop is a unique and special place with out peers Now back to the chase scene: I don’t come down here much, and I only dropped in to see what was happening with COL 6, but talk about hidden agendas. Sure, in the past there have been some great entries featuring juggling, like who can forget bassman  But the way this thread is going it seems like there has been “An Invasion by Jugglers.” The site is called Home of Poi and Fire Twirling, and according to Mission Statement Written by:
The mission is to "deliver the best resources and equipment in these arts by remaining a leader in areas of research, development, distribution, community and support services".
I think it’s great that Hop has assisted many people to expand their horizons so I suppose it really depends on whether Hop has grown and diversified enough to become something else. Even I juggle a little now, but I’m not big on watching lot’s of toss juggling unless it flows. So personally, I don’t want to watch a Col that’s predominated by juggling. Like I’d get a juggling video if I wanted to watch juggling, which i don't, as juggling is something I prefer doing rather that watching.
So perhaps the fair thing to do is stick by the decision that moved juggling out of the poi section, and let the current rules stand for this year.
cheers
and good luck
_________________________
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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#492639 - 06/03/05 11:30 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: Stone]
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Mumma Hen
Registered: 25/04/02
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Written by:
pele what is it thats saddening you? if malcolm doesnt like the idea of modifying the rules he wont.
Im saddened by some of the attitudes here as well... I dont understand why people cant be happy and respect what they are given.... There will always be room for improvement, or areas that need clarification, but prehaps people should think of the people working on the DVD, before we request juggling and contact etc to be added into a firespinning video. I believe people seem to be demanding a bit too much from Hop/Malcolm.
The rules are what they are for a reason. Dont add excess stress for Malcolm.
Written by:
IMO, the competitioni wasnt handled right from the start, and in the end, we are the ones suffering from it.
*rant start*
We are lucky to even HAVE a video, and were lucky for all those years to have a competition as part of that. Malcolm must be under a HUGE amount of pressure from us to get stuff like this done, and we all seem to forget that he gives up his spare time and HIS MONEY to do things like this for us.
Guys, Malcolm just had a baby, cut the guy some slack, he doesnt HAVE to do stuff like this for us, he did it because he loved the project and the excitment it raised. It bought us together as a family.
In my opinion people are starting to ask for more, more, more...
If you want new rules/ toys included, YOU make the videos,
if you want a competition, YOU make the videos, and sponser the prizes
if you want to deal with all the legal, money issues and not spending time with your loved ones, YOU make the videos.
But dont expect someone else to do it on your behalf and then sit and whinge when you dont think its up to what it "should be"
Icon I will be happy to support you, if you decide to bring out a comp vid.
*end rant*
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#492640 - 06/03/05 02:55 PM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: Valura]
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in his element
Registered: 29/07/04
Loc: Cambridge UK
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my thoughts, short version:
Malcolm is great for putting up HOP and organising COL!
COL is still on despite the circumstances!
This is great!
I think the question of the circles of light is more a philosophical discussion than a discussion of the rules!:D
Don't question the rules just put together the best entry you can involving swinging , twirling, or any of the fire arts!
If it's a great vid that's what matters!
Everybody be happy at the prospect of a kickass COL!
and to all the unhappy people!
Edited by LazyAngel (06/03/05 03:02 PM)
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#492641 - 06/03/05 03:11 PM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: Valura]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Registered: 28/08/02
Loc: sheffield
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Just to clarify my position-
I don't want a COL dominated by juggling/other skills
I'd like entries to be permitted a portion of juggling/other skills if the entrant desires to use them
I don't want to make extra work for malcolm or anyone else, and believe that permitting a portion of juggling/other skills would not add to anyones work
I'm grateful to Malcolm for HOP and the COL videos
I believe that a COL video by the community for the community will be more successful if that community expresses its opinions about what it would like that video to be
I'm saying that my input, where opinion is concerned is that I'd like, if I entered, to feel free to insert some juggling/contact in my entry without fear that it will be disqualified for doing so
I'd like some juggling/other skills allowed, and I'd like to see more non-fire entries.
_________________________
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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#492642 - 08/03/05 04:05 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: Valura]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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i think this has got a bit out of hand. there seems to be a very strong defensive element trying to protect malcolm's time and effort (a noble gesture) but i don't think anyone was actively asking for malcom to 'do more work' at all. Written by: Valura
In my opinion people are starting to ask for more, more, more...
If you want new rules/ toys included, YOU make the videos,
if you want a competition, YOU make the videos, and sponser the prizes
if you want to deal with all the legal, money issues and not spending time with your loved ones, YOU make the videos.
i think that's exactly the point - that the people asking questions ARE the people who are going to make the videos.
malcolm edits and handles the production side of the compliation but the actual material that makes the video up *is* provided by these people.
malcolm rightly reserves the right to edit the material down but beyond that, if you are going to spend time making a video (finding a location, deciding on what to showcase, getting there on time with decent lighting, getting good footage on tape and eventually editing it all together), it makes sense to clarify what is acceptable before you go wasting your time producing video of material that will not even be considered.
if i spent two weeks putting together a video with some juggling elements, i would be very upset if i later found out that the juggling had no chance of ever being included at all.
if the 'other toy' parts were edited out due to time restrictions (which is accepted for all of the entries) then so be it, but if i dedicate time and effort, i'd like to know that my work will at least be considered for inclusion.
say i went ahead, produced it anyway and afterwards i find out that anything other than fire, poi and sticks would be removed from my work because the rules state it i would be naturally miffed - if i complained about it afterwards, the obvious reply from here would be "why didn't you attempt to clarify things before you made it?"
i don't want col to be opened to all object manipulation with whole sections on ribbons and club juggling, but if i get 20 seconds of decent contact or a 10 second long clip of time lapse balloon modeling interspersed in the spinning, i don't think it would be a bad thing.
in fact, i think the opposite.
how many people watch a col video from start to finish after those first few watches?
a little bit of variety is not a bad thing imho.
we often discuss here how the other disciplines we follow have affected our spinning styles and i for one would love to see a reflection of that on col 2005.
for example:
a 15 second clip of part of a tai chi form followed by 90 seconds of poi spinning using similar body movements would be a joy to see.
i personally have at least two general areas that i could show that have evolved from 3 ball juggling and amalgamated themselves into my poi spinning.
this is a community.
we are invited to express our opinions here, especially on the things that we, the members of the community, have a direct influence on (col possibly being the most extreme example of this influence).
i don't think its fair to say what amounts to "shut up and get on with it or piss off", especially as some of the people that that attitude has been directed at are contributors to past col projects.
i think i'll stay a comfortable distance from this project too.
good luck and thanks in advance to all those that put in the time and effort to creating the next col - the talent and the organisers - its my favourite way of supporting hop so whatever's on the next one, you'll have a buyer here
cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#492643 - 08/03/05 05:18 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: coleman]
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just lost .... evil init
Registered: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
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#492644 - 08/03/05 05:30 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: ben-ja-men]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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#492645 - 08/03/05 05:36 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: coleman]
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just lost .... evil init
Registered: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
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well if its not good enough it wont get on now will it come on you know you want to do it for little timmy
_________________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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#492646 - 08/03/05 06:18 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: ben-ja-men]
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big and good and broken
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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i care not for little timmy. i didn't say its not good enough to get on col (although i really don't think it is) - i meant its not good enough for col because its not me at my best. lots of people see col. if lots of people are gonna see me spin, it had better be the best i can manage. (and you know it would have to have me juggling in it too... ) cole. x
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#492647 - 08/03/05 07:20 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: coleman]
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just lost .... evil init
Registered: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
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awwww poor little timmy, he might not make it through the winter if you dont enter you uncaring brute you  oh just juggle your poi and be done with it besides how would u know if its you at your best you havnt seen it now have you ....... maybe if i actually get my act together and rip plus post it to you you will see how good it is and enter it to col? and incase meg posts about my slackness its all lies horrible horrible lies 
_________________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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#492648 - 08/03/05 08:47 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: ben-ja-men]
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old hand
Registered: 11/04/03
Loc: New Zealand
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Hey cole, i'd love to see some juggling and i was chatting to my friend over the weekend about doing some tai chi for the dvd he's training how to train tai chi, gonna be great. Got some really cool forms. m
_________________________
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
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#492649 - 08/03/05 10:04 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: TheWibbler]
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Classically British
Registered: 23/09/01
Loc: Epsom, Surrey, England
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"Circles of Light" - well, my UV acrylics look like circles and light up... And whilst this is Home of Poi the boards do cover every single other form of object manipulation. The shop sells most other props too - which, incidentally, could be seen as a reason to include other non-poi/staff props as they would/could boost sales. Ok, I'm nit-picking, but the rules themselves are fairly vague Written by:
Must be doing swinging , twirling, or any of the fire arts
On a personal level (and as a potential punter, I think it's fair to be able to put forward what I'd like to spend my money on) - I would prefer to see a DVD covering mostly poi and staff with a good reflection of the other arts covered also on this site.
Maybe just having one video of juggling, one of diabolo, one of devil-stick for example - just to show other people what else is out there.
I own all but COL4, and whilst I think they're great - I sincerely feel they are lacking in that they do focus too much on poi and staff. No matter how good everyone is - an entire DVD of the same thing can get fairly monotonous.
HoP is a community - and it's an all-embracing community. A quick look at the boards shows the range of interests people have on here, and I think it would be a great shame to deprive people of seeing just how awesome some of the "object manipulators" are. As someone who has dabbled in most toys, I shudder at the thought of someone not seeing DsAds doing devilstick, Glass doing CJ (or anything else for that matter...), Bender with 3-section staff etc.
An example, would be the "Detours" video (www.detoursvideo.com I think) which is a progressive hip-hop dance video. Whilst most of the dance on their is breaking/liquid/popping etc, they still throw in chunks of other random dancing, and it helps break up the video.
Aaaaaaaaanyway - I don't like to rant (and hope I haven't here), but for all this talk, I know COL'05 is going to be wicked and would hate to think for one iota of a second that Malcolm feels unappreciated for running the COL series.
_________________________
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
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#492650 - 08/03/05 11:37 AM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: Durbs]
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Mumma Hen
Registered: 25/04/02
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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cole I think that my point may have been missed a bit...
*disclaimer this is NOT a rant, and I am not a crook*
Written by:
it makes sense to clarify what is acceptable before you go wasting your time producing video of material that will not even be considered.
Absolutley it makes sense. I would understand that stance if this was a new project. Everybody knows already what the rules are for the submission for the vids, they have been on the site for years.
What I am having difficulties understanding is because the name of the vid has changed and the fact that there are no longer prizes, people are now wanting to totally change everything about the community video, which in turn does create more work for Malcolm, having to rewrite rules and edit more etc etc.
There are people on this board who have been openly slagging previous COL's and my "make the videos yourself" quote was specifically for them, because I believe that Malcolms good nature has been taken advantage of.
I am not saying that because its "noble" either. I just believe that there are some people on here voicing some hurtful things without thinking about the amount of work that has to go into something of this scope. I would be saying the same if it was anyone on this site who had taken the time to do something so positive for our community, only to have to sit and listen to what crap it was, and that the community demands "this and that" for the next version.
Written by:
i don't think its fair to say what amounts to "shut up and get on with it or piss off", especially as some of the people that that attitude has been directed at are contributors to past col projects.
Is this what you believe that I am saying? Or is it others in this thread also?
If this is what you think I am saying, it is not the case, and I dont apprciate that slant on my words. What I am saying is that there is so much more to what happens to COL behind the sences than most of us realize and the people who are whinging about no prizes are not being appreciative for the work and the money that goes into it.
Arsn and I and Puk have contributed to col before, and the video wasnt the greatest quality So it wasnt used unfortunatly.(or maybe im a  spinner) We are not the greatest with technology. The reason I am telling you this is because what I take from the above quote is that you believe I am sitting on my high horse and not appreciating the effort that the "contributors" to COL make by sending in a vid. This isnt true, I too have made the effort, and was disapointed that we didnt make it. So I consider myself a "contributor" as well
I do agree with you in regards to the variety. I love contact, I can deal with juggling, I love acro and all the other modalities that we use, but prehaps it may be a bit too much to be pushing for at the moment? We are lucky to have a vid at all right now.
Written by:
IMO, the competitioni wasnt handled right from the start, and in the end, we are the ones suffering from it.
Written by:
yeah I was disapointed with it too. I'm glad I didn't pay for it
It is this type of attitude that I am dismayed at Cole, not nessacarily you guys disscussing how great it would be to have other things added in the DVD so please dont think that for one moment.
_________________________
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
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#492651 - 08/03/05 02:21 PM
Re: COL6 cancelled
[Re: onewheeldave]
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NYC
Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Dang it, I hate it when I miss watching a good fight. What? Jugggling?! Hey, don't you come corrupting our pure poi and staff world. How would you like it if poi and staff spinners started showing up at Juggling conventions and taking up workshop space. Oh wait, scratch that.
_________________________
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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the whole 2 tangles from the 10 mins of flowy goodness. you know that i know that you know that i know you want to 
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