Negative space and framing

thanks for sharing rob!!! you have helped me greatly today!

indeed? how so?
i was being intentionally obtuse(arashi staying in the house has worked wonders on my elitism gland )

After Fal4 I've started playing with NS and mindgames (At Rob's instructions...)

They're fun

I would post some moves, but I think this might be too on topic for this thread

It's easier to use NS in CJ anyway...

and its even easier if you just put the toys down and dance...

i still reckon inversions and insides are the way to go with this stuff.

although inverted moves are not completely physically framed, they are far more flowing than any other ns applications with poi and they dynamically create and destroy the negative space as and when it they are required.

as for negative space vortexes and the epidemical spread of the ucof principle, i deny all knowledge


cole. x

This all sounds interesting, think i will have to play around with this idea some and see what happens!

negative space- pah! just none of you forget that i am the supreme ruler of all things negative and spacey. in fact the kingdom of airhead goths worship me as their god incarnate. "thou shalt pay a finders fee" is the whole of the law.

negative space is the area immediately surrounding arashi after a heavy night on the curry.

wheres the video?? i dont understaaaaand.....

so. somebody posted in a thread in discussion that there was nothing going on in new moves...

but i disagree..

this whole NS concept is growing uberfast, and there are sooooooooo many new moves coming out...

i kind of bumped this also for mark/madjuggling, cause there's some great shpiel early on in the thread..

so just as an example: got a lovely bitewrap that creaates a negatve space loop for the other poi to be dropped into

and one where the left poi gets dropped onto the left shoulder, the right poi comes through the gap from the top, and the right writs picks up the left poi into a barrel roll exit(everybodies favourite at uberoz.. trust you all to go for the beautiful one rathre than all the ggekmanoovas)

smiles, and inspired grins


R

I didn't pay much attention to this thread when it was first posted a long time ago, but I wish I did.

I came up with this just now to see if I understood this thread:
Catch the left poi in the right side crook of my neck, then stall the right poi downhward through the loop. Next hand the right hand poi's knot/handle into the left hand so both ends are in the left hand. Then with your right hand grab the right poi head and spin it counter clockwise and after one roatation release the left poi from your neck and you'll be in a left-handed one-handed buttefly.


This is definately another one of those things with countless possiblities.

Just when I think I have enough on my plate along comes a big steaming helping of mashed negative space to throw on there. I have to ask though where's the gravy?

mm. we(not you and me, but me and NYC ) have had that old chesnut out in the past 6 months or so... i'm inclined to agree with you... and to rejoice that finally poi has become waaaaaaaaay too big for anyone to even contemplate learning everything there is to learn.

i was almost crying with pride at uberoz that i could never spin as well as everybody there, because everybody had such different styles and had (in some cases) spent several years developing and refining one technique to its limits(well, current limits)

anyway. thiss is but seems like a good discussion.. PMs or a new thread i think..?

as for the negative spacery, yes, rovo, thats definitely a good'n. i found after a while i wasn't contenet with dropping the second poi head through and stopping it, but using inversion/isolation technique to get throught he gap while still spinning, and sarrying on into weave shapes with one hand static on a shoulder, or moving between the shoulders.

currently working on smooth transitions from

frame with lefthand/leftshoulder, right poi weaving--->frame with rh, rs, left poi weaving without ever opening up....

I'm really bad about threadjacking..


negative space got me playing more with the body tracing.. because then you always have negative space to spin through.. and it helps clean up one's spinning..

Blue, that move sounds wikkid but I have a question. When say your left hand is on your shoulder and the right poi goes through the frame do you move your left hand away from the shoulder once the poi goes through? Oh and what does the left poi do when your left hand is on your shoulder?
I'm having trouble visualizing what it should be doing.

Its Poi(give more space) or hand that is laying on the shoulder and the negative space is the place inbetween your body,hand and shoulder. You deosnt move neither hand nor Poi to let right Poi with hand pass throught. It continue than, leaving "contact point" with your left Poi/hand into revolution. For example weave.

:R

I just don't understand t yet. I tried playing around with different things today but havn't figured it out yet. Oh well I can let this one wiat a while.

Wow, that concept gives me loads of new ideas. *runs off to practice*

cool. try throwing through your space too.

rovo: curently the poi head does nothing.
got plans tho(weasel ball )

rob

thank for directing me to this discussion. i must say there was a lot of crap about definitions, but it seems to have been sorted out.

i must say i have never been excited about poi ike this before. i have always loved club swinging, and the only move i had trouble learning with clubs was TTN, but i learnt it with poi briefly, then learnt it with clubs, and have hardly touched poi since... until uberoz.

it was funny meeting Dom again, who i met at EJC04 and bought his sock poi, and when i was first at uberoz, they still looked completely new (even though they were a year and half old). but i got them nice and dirty over that weekend, and still cant put them down.

anyway, is there a point to this post. i hope so...

most things that can be done with poi can be done with club swinging, and still look similar and have a similar difficulty. one thing that i like about the negative space moves that i learnt is that they are unique to poi and dont carry across to club swinging, and so i have to spend time with poi in my hands, which is a good thing.

the major types of negative space that we seemed to explore at uberoz were:
* Resting a poi on a body part (shoulder, leg, back of hand), then letting the other poi do things through the hole
* holding the end of the poi in the same hand, creating a loop, and then passing the other poi through it (a body part could also be in the loop)
* holding the other end of the poi in the other hand, and the other poi passing through the space created.

other areas from reading other posts were:
* creating the negative space with just your body parts
* Creating it with your body and the ground

are there any other major concepts/ways people explore negative space? (im sure i have forgotten some, and am definitely new to this area so i havent seen much of whats out there)

is there a list of examples of tricks with negative space, with descriptions? only because i learnt a whole bag full in uberoz, and have also come up with a new bagful of variations. maybe we should start one. maybe using the above points as categories?

hope the post is useful, and gets you thinking

mark
still not sure if i can call my self a twirler... do i know enough? what will all my juggling friends say about me?

for the semantic side, i'd call what most of you seem to be talking about as "manipulating degrees of freedom" in a mathematical sense. "negative space" for me is any opposition to that which is only implicitly present. if i'm doing all front of body moves for a performance, BTB is conceptually a "negative space" to those that know it's usable. hell, standing only on the front half of a stage makes the back half "negative space" visually. pendulla make excellent use of negative space (the implied top halves of the circles) that's noticable by an audience... that's what i want more of.

making holes and putting things through holes was cool and new here when TT1 came out, but i'm looking for ways to play with my audience's head by making them expect one thing and then get another... got any ideas?