#42248 - 19/07/02 12:37 AM
I just want your opinion....
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Dreamer
Registered: 15/03/02
Loc: York, England
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Official US govt description of operations TIPS:
Operation TIPS - the Terrorism Information and Prevention System - will be a nationwide program giving millions of American truckers, letter carriers, train conductors, ship captains, utility employees, and others a formal way to report suspicious terrorist activity. Operation TIPS, a project of the U.S. Department of Justice, will begin as a pilot program in 10 cities that will be selected.
Operation TIPS, involving 1 million workers in the pilot stage, will be a national reporting system that allows these workers, whose routines make them well-positioned to recognize unusual events, to report suspicious activity. Every participant in this new program will be given an Operation TIPS information sticker to be affixed to the cab of their vehicle or placed in some other public location so that the toll-free reporting number is readily available.
So, what do you think? i haev some follow up commentary myself, but not until i get reactions from this from you guys.
_________________________
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
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#42249 - 19/07/02 12:41 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 17/05/02
Loc: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
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Well I think that is a bunch of bullshit!
_________________________
You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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#42250 - 18/07/02 01:04 PM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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Tantamount to fatuity
Registered: 30/07/01
Loc: Down the road
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I'm not going ot enter into this discussion because this is going to turn into anotyher of those unfriendly threads where everyone snipes at one another.
I just do the weave really fast.
_________________________
"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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#42251 - 19/07/02 12:32 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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old hand
Registered: 31/05/02
Loc: Brigadoon
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this will be my only post in this thread so i'd better make it count.
it cannot be denied that any repetition of an event such as was experienced in new york on september 11th must, if possible, be prevented.
the question is, how can something like that be prevented? those who have taken it upon themselves to 'wage war on terrorism' (most significantly the american government) have a virtually impossible job. there is no specific target for their actions. there is no front line. if they are attacked it is civilians who will bear the brunt. the government has to make decisions concerning how to fight a type of war that has never before been considered, let alone attempted.
they will make decisions that, with hindsight, will turn out to have been unnecessary or even wrong. but having never been in this situation before they have no way of knowing that. hopefully the actions they take that prove to be beneficial will outnumber those that are detrimental.
i don't wish to make out that i'm a great fan of the american government. i'm not, in fact it scares me that such a bunch of imbeciles run the most powerful country on the planet. however, at least they have the wherewithall to actually try to do something about it.
if you don't want to support an attempt at ending terrorism don't stand in the way of those that do. growing up in an army household i've had enough exposure to the difficulties concerning northern ireland to know you can't call it bullshit when nobody's even tried it yet?
it might just help. stranger things have happened.
_________________________
wherever you go, there you are.
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#42253 - 19/07/02 02:14 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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very inteligent post gap... ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42254 - 19/07/02 02:24 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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i have no problem with this.. alot of people are gonna jump and say we are encourageing americans to spy on each other liek its the cold war.. well its just like mind the gap says, its a new kind of threat. a for the most part unseen threat. the only way to defend against a terrorist attack (in my opinion) is to have evey citizen watching and reporting. im all for it. i was doing that anyway i dont need to be goverment appointed. if some innocent people are questioned so be it. we arnt trying to catch car jackers here. we are trying to catch mass murderers. im all about doing whatever it takes to stop them.. these fools need to be stopped. there dancin around laughing and havin a good old time. it makes me sick and i will give up alot to finally stop them. they have the whole world gripped in fear.. lets make them fear us. ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif)
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42255 - 19/07/02 03:21 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 18/07/01
Loc: Stroudsburg, PA, USA
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I think it sucks ass.
there are enough nose ass people around. We dont need to have the govrnment getting more.
I cant even begin to think of all the shit I do that could look shady from another persons eyes.
_________________________
I smell something burning.
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#42256 - 19/07/02 10:16 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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Not quite sure...I need to think about it.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#42257 - 19/07/02 10:23 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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journeyman
Registered: 24/12/01
Loc: london
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err... when you can denounce your friends/enemies you have the power to settle scores in a nasty way. hence it relies on people to be decent. ![[Embarrassed]](images/icons/blush.gif) theres that one gone then dont report me for my lumpy custard
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it's not that i mean to set things on fire...
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#42258 - 19/07/02 11:11 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 23/06/02
Loc: mesa, arizona
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i don't understand why only certain workers of our country are able to do this. national security is EVERYONE's responsibility. i don't understand why we have to create a new program (i.e. spend MORE money). if you feel that someones actions are suspicious, call the police, that is what they are for. i just find it odd that they have to create a new program for this purpose only, what about suspected child molestors and rapisits (just as an example)? do we create a phone number for TIPS for each type of crime that can be committed? when we focous our attention on one crime, others continue to go unnoticed (i.e. worldcom). just a few pennies from a crazy lady working in america... ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
_________________________
-ivy. = ^ )
Ralph, jesus did not have wheels.--sunday school teacher, the simpsons
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#42259 - 19/07/02 02:17 PM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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addict
Registered: 29/10/01
Loc: Hartford, CT USA
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eh, not like its gonna cost that much money, they just have to buy the stickers...
i think i might make my own TIPS stickers and start putting them on random peoples cars...
that would amuse me...
_________________________
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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#42260 - 19/07/02 03:32 PM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 05/07/02
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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Its ridiculous.
Lets remember that the main problem facing american intelligence is not a lack of data but too much of it. Analysis and gross managerial incompetance are what needs to be looked at. The FBI and CIA had, in retrospect, lots of tips about 9/11. A number of the hijackers were on a CIA list of suspected terrorists, which they neglected inform the INS of. All this does is add a boatload of useless information. Or wait, everyone who tries to commit an act of terror will leave "I love OBL" fliers on their coffee table when the plumber comes.
And thats *if* its not abused in any way. I can't state strongly enough how unlikely I consider that.
_________________________
Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random Musings
Sex, Drugs and Psytrance.
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#42261 - 19/07/02 03:34 PM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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Tantamount to fatuity
Registered: 30/07/01
Loc: Down the road
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I can't help thinking you've missed the point Whiffle.
_________________________
"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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#42262 - 19/07/02 04:18 PM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 11/07/02
Loc: Ontario
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I think the program will just prove to utterly useless. It will depend on the opinions of anonymous americans who could be racist/petty/ignorant/or just plain ol' not knowing what to look for. Im not saying Americans are like this but in any chountry you would get many many faulty or downright untruthful responses. Also it is very likely that many muslims will be targeted and if i was muslim i would be getting pretty sick of all the attention. I just think it's highly implausible that it'll work. Its good to be concerned about national safety, but not overly concerned and not with stoopid money spending programs
_________________________
rocketfire_tothemoon@hotmail.com
CARPE DIEM seize the day and you will never regret your actions
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#42263 - 20/07/02 04:50 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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well stella i agree with you .. there are going to be tons of false reports out there.. thats ok though thats how the cia and fbi work they get leads and then its there job to determine if theres any reason to detain the person in question.... so it doesnt really matter if a bigot works for tips.. about the muslim thing, well im sorry i feel for them but just about every terrorist attack is performed by a middle eastern male 20-30 years old.. thats a fact. so i think a little racial profileing is ok in this instance if it means we can save 5,000 people from death. its ridiculous to not say anything because you think your being racist. when i get on a plane with 3 middle eastern men your damn right im watching them. you dont have to make them uncomfortable or stare at them the whole flight but im aware of what there doing. if they act suspicous i will say somthing. its common sense to me. this is a sticky situation, but im not worried about being "pc" . im more concerned with people being murdered then hurting a muslim feelings.. i feel for them, i do.. i know the muslim is feeling the heat. if i were in there shoes i would honestly be accepting of this if it meant lives would be saved.
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42264 - 20/07/02 07:51 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 05/07/02
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
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quote:
Originally posted by lightbug:
well stella i agree with you .. there are going to be tons of false reports out there.. thats ok though thats how the cia and fbi work they get leads and then its there job to determine if theres any reason to detain the person in question.... so it doesnt really matter if a bigot works for tips.. about the muslim thing, well im sorry i feel for them but just about every terrorist attack is performed by a middle eastern male 20-30 years old.. thats a fact. so i think a little racial profileing is ok in this instance if it means we can save 5,000 people from death. its ridiculous to not say anything because you think your being racist. when i get on a plane with 3 middle eastern men your damn right im watching them. you dont have to make them uncomfortable or stare at them the whole flight but im aware of what there doing. if they act suspicous i will say somthing. its common sense to me. this is a sticky situation, but im not worried about being "pc" . im more concerned with people being murdered then hurting a muslim feelings.. i feel for them, i do.. i know the muslim is feeling the heat. if i were in there shoes i would honestly be accepting of this if it meant lives would be saved.
Perhaps. But remember Alqaeda has (supposedly) spread to a large part of the world. Think there aren't any blond blue eyed bosnian muslims in it? Chechans? Chinese? Indonesians? Philipinos? How about that palestinian woman that blew herself up? What about the west indian/brit Reid aka the Shoe Bomber? Or Lopez, or any of the other, very diverse converts? How do you know someone is muslim btw? Do you think they smell different? Or they all have beards and turbans? That they aren't smart enough to fit in? I also think you'd be very surprised at the variation in "male middle eastern men in their 20s-30s". Lebanese look nothing like Saudis, for example. There are a great man black muslims. Want to strip search and give a body cavity check to every black person on a plane? The fallicy of racial profiling in circumstances like this is this: If you were in charge of planning the next attack, would you use people who looked blatently middle eastern?
The reason 9/11 happened was because aircraft are insecure, the check-in security procedures are a joke, and the FAA (apparently) didn't follow their own written, published procedures regarding hijacking. By the last I mean getting a military aircraft on an intercept as soon as you hear about it. To this day I have yet to hear anything about having all cabin door be solidly locked and reinforced. This step alone would do more to prevent another tragedy than all the racial profiling. Why? Cause its expensive and you can't point to it and say "We at <some random airline> are keeping you safe by analy probing anyone with a tan and a beard".
_________________________
Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random Musings
Sex, Drugs and Psytrance.
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#42265 - 20/07/02 08:12 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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knowntobeinsane
Registered: 20/05/02
Loc: wanderingaroundtheglobe
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Ardvark you got a point! To be honest I dont think many people are thinking of this as 'international'... I mean dont you remember the Oklahoma bombings where one of your own country men decided to fuck every one else... What about anthrax? Who did that shit? Now the government of any country can just vote some group of people extreme and say they are terrorists. WTF?!? There are big sickos everywhere regardless of age, sex, nationality, sexual preference, eye colour, blood line, skin colour... You get the point... I resent anyone who agrees with racial profiling: its fucking stupid (retarded)! I have a good friend who is from saudi, shes going to the states this summer and I know shes going to get shit for it even if she shows her british passport they will bitch if she doesnt show the saudi one... You know what pisses me off too... When the shit hit the fan (11/9) a man in a turban was brutally killed in the states. People who wear turbans are seiks (sp?) not muslims they tend to be from india...They dont even know what muslims are or what their way of life/thinking is. Anyone know Joan Baez? Go listen to the words in one of her songs: Blowin' in the wind... She had a point! 'How many years must some people exist before they are allowed to be free?' Much love, Drome ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
_________________________
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
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#42266 - 20/07/02 09:38 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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Al-Qaeda would be unlikely to try the airplane trick again for a long while. They know that they're unlikely to get away with it again. Also, Al-Qaeda is not an airline hijacking organization; they are terrorists. That means that flying 767's into buildings is only one of a bunch of stunts they can pull.
The thing is that even before September 11, Al-Qaeda had repeatedly said that they were going to do this and that spectacular attack. They even pulled one off, setting off a truck bomb in the basement of the WTC. But the WTC didn't fall down. Imagine if it had...
Al-Qaeda has attempted literally hundreds of attacks on the U.S. For the most part, our intelligence system worked quite well, catching all but a very few of these before they even took physical form. But the thing about terrorists is that in order to win, they just have to get lucky ONCE, and they did.
Americans have to accept that no matter how secure we make our borders, there will be a failure rate and there will be attacks. Americans are so used to thinking in terms of "100% safe" that they've forgotten that there's no such thing. And it sickens me to see how people are so afraid of death that they are afraid to give up living to avoid it.
Even if it means that my Jewish ass gets a suspicious looking-over when I stop at a Subway in the middle of Utah. That annoys me.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#42267 - 20/07/02 09:40 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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HOP Mad Doctor
Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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One other thing: the last successful terrorist attack on the U.S.A. was done by Timothy McVeigh. I don't think he was very Muslim.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
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#42268 - 20/07/02 09:48 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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yes aardvark it hasnt been limited only to middle eastern.. i did say most.. i for one just keep my eyes open for anyone suspecious.. middle eastern men just put up an extra flag for me.. dont get me wrong i have faith in mankind.. i know that most people are just tryin to make there way.. i dont fear people i just dont ever want to be caught off guard and i play to the numbers.. your awfully smart for a drugged up aardvark. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif)
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42271 - 21/07/02 05:26 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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nice attitude aardvark. i guess aardvarks have tough skin but no back bone.. j/p .. numbers are all we have and i do not let those cloud my vision. im still watchin everyone jus like i did before 9/11.. however now they appear to be the most probable threat. if you dont want to watch out for possible dangers in your area thats your business. if anyone tries to pull anything around me im gonna beat them to death. i hope everyone else would do the same.. well you dont have to beat them but say somthing at least. you may just save thousands of lives.
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42272 - 21/07/02 05:36 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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Dreamer
Registered: 15/03/02
Loc: York, England
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i'd prefer that beating to death not be on a suspicion basis, and mpre on a threat or direct attack basis... by threat i mean, threatening you... or ur kid... just a point... btw, i never did quite get aroudn to putting up my thoughts on this. (they are kind of drawn out.) as it happens, they are relatively irrelavent though, cause TIPS will not go into effect, and neither will national identity cards. now lets just hoep teh RAVE act doesn't pass.... sicne we already got the patriot act ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif)
_________________________
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
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#42273 - 21/07/02 05:37 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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quote:
You know what pisses me off too...
When the shit hit the fan (11/9) a man in a turban was brutally killed in the states. People who wear turbans are seiks (sp?) not muslims they tend to be from india...They dont even know what muslims are or what their way of life/thinking is
it shouldnt matter anyways. i dont care if the person is a muslim. that was just evil bullshit.
theres no need for that.. theres muslims in are military fighting for this country.. you dont lash out at a religion or race.. you lash out at a person who is actually endangering you or others.
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42274 - 21/07/02 05:39 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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Dreamer
Registered: 15/03/02
Loc: York, England
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rrrrghhhh teh computer ate my reply
oh well, the most important thing i said out of teh whoel mess was that tips won't actually be happening. neitehr will national identity cards.
_________________________
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
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#42275 - 21/07/02 05:51 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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im sorry kyrian, i didnt mean for that to come off that way. of course you dont attack someone on suspision.... you can watch someone that your suspicous of though.. and if you see them produce somthing like an explosive or other weapon then you jump on them and beat the dog s*** out of them.. even if you just seem them tampering with somthing you can atleast report it to someone who can determine whether that person belongs there or not, plus other people will then be watching as well..
_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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#42276 - 21/07/02 09:02 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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Dreamer
Registered: 15/03/02
Loc: York, England
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k gotcha lightbug sorry for the misunderstanding!
_________________________
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
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#42277 - 21/07/02 09:15 AM
Re: I just want your opinion....
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member
Registered: 24/05/02
Loc: arizona
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_________________________
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
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