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"Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS

      
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#322714 - 24/04/04 09:46 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS ***** [Re: vanize]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Quote:

I know Fire Breathing with alcholhol is more dangerous than with parfin from the "blow back" aspect - ie. setting your face on fire - but what about from the ARDS aspect? I would guess alchohol vapor in your lungs is not as dangerous as petrolchemicals, no? Just curious in an acedemic sense since I can envision (non Fire Breathing related) accidents involving alchohol in the lungs and am wondering how seriosly the threat of ARDS should be taken in a case like that.




I know that alcohol is very irritating to all tissues, and I can't imagine that something as delicate as the alveolar wall would take it too well.

But I don't really know. I don't know that a case of alcohol aspiration pneuomonitis has ever been described. I'll look, though.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322715 - 24/04/04 09:49 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Ali-bird]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Ali,

Anyone should feel free to post it wherever. Just credit me (and link back to the article if possible). And put as part of the post that any other copies should be credited to me and linked back to me.

It's not that I'm an egomaniac, but I feel like I should claim responsibility for writing such a post.

But I will write a proper article when I'm not being flogged to death by school. Which will be in 9 weeks...
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322716 - 29/04/04 04:06 PM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Doc Lightning]
Puck Dallas Offline
member

Registered: 10/04/04
Loc: usa, Dallas, Tx
Other added issues not just dealing with the lungs are commonly chemical burn and skin allergic reactions. Just think what this does to you gums. Cout your gums kids. Normaly the people I work with recomend using barrier cream to give your skin a layer of protection. If you use enough paraffin in a performance keep in mind that the mouth and tounge do also process the fuel through skin contact and can also commonly cause diareah. I heard somewhere that it can also aggravate heart problems. There was this old school guy that would swallow fuels and water and would get a candle really going and then put the fire out with water that he had previously ingested. He was a regurgitator. He died of a heart problem and I think I remeber them mentioning that his occupational hazards contributed to this. I wish I could rember his name. It was black in white footage though. Your body ingests the fuel one way or another. fyi

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#322717 - 29/04/04 09:21 PM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Puck Dallas]
Charles Moderator Offline
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer

Registered: 27/06/01
Loc: Auckland
(takes off his moderators cap)

Quote:

Cout your gums kids




Puck, do you really think that's an appropriate issue considering the above posts?

Somehow chapped lips and stinging gums just don't even seem worth mentioning, compared to what's above. in fact, I would prefer to use them as a deterent than offering ways around it.
_________________________
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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#322718 - 30/04/04 01:42 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Charles]
vanize Offline
Lord Ballchain

Registered: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
actually Charles, I think (?) Puck Dallas was trying to point out that fuel is absorbed through your gums and other mouth tissue and may lead to allergic reactions, possibly gum cancer, and other complications such as intestinal troubles and heart disease.

It's not really off topic - at least not compared to the way most threads are anyway. And offering a small suggestion that may or may not help in this one regard really isn't out of line is it? (that is if "cout" means "coat", and it is a suggestion for some minimal protection against fuel absorbtion thru the gums). I don't think it is inappropriate or out of line per se, unless we are deciding to use this thread to condemn Fire Breathing altogether and make it a taboo subject for HoP.

I mean, sure Fire Breathing is very dangerous, and I myself won't do it (decided that years ago without even trying it once), but is that where this is going?
_________________________
-v- Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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#322719 - 30/04/04 05:10 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: vanize]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
The thing about cancer is that cancer doesn't really scare people. I'm not sure exactly why, but I think it's because:

1) Cancer happens to old people
2) Cancer won't happen to me
3) By the time I get cancer, there will be a cure

That's my own personal theory.

There's something about diseases that smother you to death and that can happen to young people that tends to scare people a bit more.

So I don't bother with cancer and I just cut to the chase.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322720 - 30/04/04 05:26 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Doc Lightning]
NYC Offline
NYC

Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
Dunno... cancer scares the heck out of me. Looking at my family, I'm pretty sure that's how I'm goin out.

Aside from NOT doing things that cause cancer... are there any preventative measures that one can take to decrease the likely hood? Aside from not being a chemistry teacher.
_________________________
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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#322721 - 30/04/04 06:16 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: NYC]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Well, get plenty of antoxidants in your diet. Lotsa broccoli, cauliflower, brussles sprouts, etc. Also, get plenty of fiber as there is some evidence that that can reduce the risk of colon cancer.

Also, do not:
Expose yourself to hydrocarbons like fire fuel
Work as a chemistry teacher
Live in an urban area
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322722 - 04/05/04 01:26 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Doc Lightning]
Chris Bailey Offline
the person occasionally known as Rovo

Registered: 30/07/03
Loc: St John, USVI
I decided not to start a new topic because this topic is about Fire Breathing and its dangers. I have read Pele's "Season in Hell" and this post so i realize the dangers in Fire Breathing. Anyways this past Friday night there was a small rave at this castle near where i live. I didn't have the funds to go but a few of my friends did. Well yesterday i ended up talkin to a friend that went to that party and she told people were spinning fire and Fire Breathing. Which disappointed me reatly since i didn't go. She also told me that the guys doin this were letting other people breath fire without any experience or knowledge of how to do it the dangers associated with it. Plus all these people were highly intoxicated some not just drunk. I think people should be a little more responsible instead of lettin a group of girls try something that could cause serious injury to them just to make themsleves look better or increase their chances of gettin with them that night.
_________________________
Peace, Love, Circles

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#322723 - 04/05/04 09:39 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Chris Bailey]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
It's real simple:

Someone's going to get hurt.

Someone is going to get sued for it.

Karma. It's real; it works.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322724 - 04/05/04 11:42 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Doc Lightning]
squarefish Offline
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)

Registered: 23/09/02
Loc: the state of flux
Lightning,
forget about getting sued, what happens if someone dies after you've shown them how to fire breath? Culpable negligence, manslaughter, what?
-M-

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#322725 - 04/05/04 01:26 PM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: squarefish]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
In this country, it would be something. Negligence, I dunno...

Trust me, you could get sued. And possibly prosecuted, too.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322726 - 05/05/04 09:01 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Puck Dallas]
Pele Moderator Offline
the henna lady

Registered: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
Quote:

There was this old school guy that would swallow fuels and water and would get a candle really going and then put the fire out with water that he had previously ingested. He was a regurgitator. He died of a heart problem and I think I remeber them mentioning that his occupational hazards contributed to this. I wish I could rember his name. It was black in white footage though. Your body ingests the fuel one way or another. fyi




His name was Hadji Ali. He would drink something like 2 gallons of water, a cup of Kerosene, spit the Kero to fuel a fire then spit the water to put it out. You can see it in the 1931 Laurel and Hardy film Politiquerias. And I would like to point out...it is an illusion. It is not real and should not be used as a reference. Knowing fire safety a person knows that water does not extinguish fuel fires, it spreads them. And that while oil and water don't mix, it is hard to seperate liquids in the regurgitation act. I know several people who do the real thing, and know that he was a traditional sideshow charlatan.

Next on, thanks for all the support and such. I do appreciate it tremendously. My whole point was that so much more goes on that the medical. It honestly reflects on every single portion of life, and we don't concider any of that in these conversations. And every day I get people writing to me for advise on *how to firebreathe*, and it astounds me.

I also want to remind that my medical bills (thankfully mostly covered by insurance) were up in the Hundreds of Thousands of dollars. All for something that took a few seconds, so for those who think that Fire Breathing will pay more for their shows...no show pays that well.

I have been travelling around teaching burlesque dance, tribalized poi and have been giving lectures and having open forum discussions about my accident and I must say that it has warmed me to no end to hear how many people are not Fire Breathing because of someone finally sharing. I agree that I need no sympathy. I knew that I could die when I went into it. I had absolutely no clue what else could go wrong with it, to be sure, and was completely unsuspecting.

If only it weren't such an easy thing to do.

And to answer the question of would alcohol have been any better. No, it wouldn't. When I spoke with the doctor on a follow-up I was told that if I had have inhaled cola the same way, I would have faced several of the same issues, though not to the degree I did. The alveoli are very delicate and sensative and enjoy sending our bodies into tailspins it seems. Alcohol is damaging to tissues, as Mike said, and would have had similar effects. Mike, to look for information on this, you can actually find out by investigating illness and deaths associated with drunkeness I was told.

Anyway, hope to meet some of you on my travels!
Kindest Regards and Happy Breathing to all!
Pele
_________________________
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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#322727 - 05/05/04 04:30 PM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Pele]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Quote:

Alcohol is damaging to tissues, as Mike said, and would have had similar effects. Mike, to look for information on this, you can actually find out by investigating illness and deaths associated with drunkeness I was told.





I'm not disputing that alcohol would probably cause a nasty pneumonitis. I just haven't seen that in the literature. Then again, I haven't looked too hard and I don't like making a definative statement without being for darned sure that I have literature to back it up. But yeah, it probably would cause a nasty pneumonitis.

So what happens in drunkenness is that people get so drunk that they lose their ability to protect their airway. Then they vomit and suck the stomach acid into their lungs. THAT causes a horrible pneumonitis that can even be worse than the hydrocarbon pneumonitis that you had because, while the hydrocarbon doesn't cause direct damage to the lung tissues, stomach acid does.

As much as 80% mortality.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322728 - 05/05/04 04:31 PM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Doc Lightning]
Dentrassi Offline
ZORT!

Registered: 09/04/03
Loc: Brisbane
*shudder*
_________________________
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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#322729 - 09/06/04 05:19 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: vanize]
Twirly Offline
Shoryuken!

Registered: 25/05/04
Loc: Hexham, Newcastle, England
Written by:

I don't think it is inappropriate or out of line per se, [offering advice on coating gums] unless we are deciding to use this thread to condemn Fire Breathing altogether and make it a taboo subject for HoP.

I mean, sure Fire Breathing is very dangerous, and I myself won't do it (decided that years ago without even trying it once), but is that where this is going?




Yeah, while reading the above (thanks to everyone who contributed) should be enough to put anyone off the idea of Fire Breathing, you have to assume that people are still going to do it. I mean, EVERYONE knows how bad for you smoking is, but people keep starting. People ARE still going to firebreath, and so its only right that everyone helps them minimise the damage they're going to do to themselves.

If someone went against your advice not to go into a cage of lions, would you turn your back on them, or make sure that they at least took a chair in with them?

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#322730 - 09/06/04 05:40 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Twirly]
Mags The Jedi Offline
Fool

Registered: 30/05/04
Loc: Cornwall, UK
You guys blow my mind. Thanks all of you, Dr Mike and Pele especially. I'd kind of already decided that Fire Breathing wasn't for me, but that confirms it.

Lots of more fun things to do with fire anyway.

_________________________
"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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#322731 - 09/06/04 10:15 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Mags The Jedi]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Ok, if you type Fire Breathing, does it automatically become that link?

That's awesome.
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322732 - 09/06/04 10:17 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: Doc Lightning]
Doc Lightning Offline
HOP Mad Doctor

Registered: 28/05/01
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
apparently not...
_________________________
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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#322733 - 02/07/04 03:57 AM Re: "Firebreather's Lung" or ARDS [Re: vanize]
Maximus Ego Offline
member

Registered: 28/02/04
Great post, Mike.
Two other issues: dental damage and liver cancer.
After my first Fire Breathing session I had two fillings fall out. They cost more to replace than any paid gig, and I wonder about the damage done to the rest of them.
I use the purist ultra-refinined parafin oil I can find, but I still worry about swallowing trace amounts that can cause liver cancer and other internal disorders. I swallow charcoal caps and suds my mouth out with beer afterwards. And I eat foods (like vinegar, fish oil, and dark green leafed veggies) good for my liver and for fighting cancer. But I still worry.
I took up Fire Breathing aware of the risks. I practiced, took lessons, and trained my safeties in CPR. I still do it. I wanted to do it during our trip to Iran, but the only fuel we could find was naptha.
Even I am not crazy enough to put that in my mouth.

peace,
Maximus Ego

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