Coloured Flames FAQ (First draft)

Solubility is the key with these salts, and here's a (somewhat) simplistic explaination.

This is a measure of how easy it is for the solvent (Ethanol, meths, kero or whatever) to dissolve up an amount of the metal salt. The way it dissolves it is by separating the two halves, the metal (Lithium, potassium etc), for the counter ion (Carbonate, acetate, chloride).

As a rule, the more polar your solvent, the easier it will be for it to dissolve your salt. Solvents are normally just chains of hydrogen and carbon, with other things like hydroxide groups (Alcohols), acetyl groups (ethers) etc added to them. Kerosene has non of these groups on it, so it's really polar. That's why you can't use it for the commercially available salts. Ethanol is ideal, as it is easily available and has quite a high polarity. You should be able to search on the internet for polarities of solvents. If you find a particularly good one though, a) make sure it's safe, as some are HIGHLY toxic, and b) make sure it actually burns, and at what temperature.

On the salts front, generally, the size match in two ions (metal and other) is what determines how easily they will dissolve. The bigger the difference in size, the easier to dissolve. Lithium Chloride therefore, will be quite difficult to dissolve, in comparison to Lithium acetate. also, if the counterion has alkyl chains (carbon and hydrogen chains), then that'll aid solubility in less polar solvents. These are usually quite difficult to get hold of though, and are usually only available to chemists (not Pharmacists, the other kind).

I've rambled too long now, and I hope this has been of use. If you need to know anything else, let me know through this thread or a message, and I'll see if I can help.

Paul

Gelfling. Do you seriously heat these things in a sealed container? I wouldn't advise anyone do this, as some of the solvent will turn to gas, and the pressure in the system will cause the vessel to explode.

If anyone want to see the injuries from this type of accident, I've got a few scars on my arm I could show you.

Good info is worth repeating.

My motto, and I'm sticking to it

Ducky - see method for heating using a desk light - to clarify I'm talking about temperatures under 50 degrees centigrade for no more than ten minutes in a plastic container (used for duty free gin as the alcohol does not degrade this sort of plastic).

"...the cancer caused by the inhalation of those chemicals would take a few years to manifest..." by which time they will never be able to link me as the cause - Mwa ha ha (that'll teach them for not completing their work). Seriously though, the quantities used and the exposure time are ridiculously small. In the UK any school experiements are assassed by two inpendant safety organisations: COSHH (control of substances hazardous to health) and CLEAPSS (Consortium of Local Education Authorities for the Provision of Science Services) so whatever I do ends up being risk assessed at least 4 times once by myself, once by my lab techs and once by each of these organisations.

Sorry. It wasn't clear from your post. I don't think I've ever heated anything with a desk light (I'm not sure I even know what one is). It's probably my job talking. When I heat things, I do it with a paint stripper, and industrial stregnth glassware. I wouldn't advise anyone else to do this however. I generally know what I'm doing in those sorts of situations.

I'm guessing that you've never incubated ant eggs then nor bamboo seeds. Simply shine the lamp onto the bottle - in summer dissolve near a sunny window - yah greenhouse effect

Amazing what you can find online

NYC, this sound about right?


Colored Fire / Star Mixtures

The following compositions can be burned loose, in a small pile to produce a colored flame.
They can also be made into "Stars". Stars are solid chunks of pyrotechnic compositions that are designed to either burn in various bright colors, or produce an effect such as glitter, streamer/tail, etc. while traveling through the air. Stars are the basis of Aerial Shells that paint the sky during firework displays. To make any of the following compositions into Stars, simply add a little water to them until the mixture has the consistency of cookie dough. Once in this form, the composition can be pressed or rolled into small pellets and dried. Once the pellets have thoroughly dried and become hard, they are known as 'Stars'. Never force dry pyrotechnic compositions with heat. Always dry them in the open air and in the shade. Depending on the type of composition and temperature/humidity,
drying times for a batch of stars can take from about 3 to 7 days.


Double Neon Blue
Potassium Perchlorate
127.6 g
Copper Carbonate
25.8 g
Parlon
27.6 g
Dextrin
8.6 g
Red Gum
19.0 g

Purple
Potassium Perchlorate
122.6 g
Copper Carbonate
14.8 g
Strontium Carbonate
10.0 g
Parlon
24.8 g
Dextrin
18.2 g
Red Gum
19.0 g

Pink
Potassium Perchlorate
140.0 g
Strontium Carbonate
30.0 g
Dextrin
8.0 g
Charcoal
4.0 g
Red Gum
18.0 g

Lemon Lime Green
Potassium Perchlorate
94.4 g
Barium Nitrate
56.6 g
Strontium Carbonate
10.0 g
Parlon
9.4 g
Dextrin
10.0 g
Red Gum
28.4 g

White
Potassium Nitrate
140.0 g
Antimony Sulfide
30.0 g
Sulfur
14.0 g
Dextrin
7.5 g

Electric Orange
Potassium Perchlorate
106.0 g
Calcium Carbonate
28.0 g
Magnalium
12.0 g
Parlon
28.0 g
Dextrin
8.0 g
Red Gum
18.0 g

This is the most intense pumpkin orange you'll ever see.
'Electric' colors are much brighter and vibrant than normal mixtures. This is due to the presence of a metal in the mixture (usually Magnalium or Aluminum). The burning metal dramatically increases the flame temperature and also the visible luminous output.

Electric Magenta
Potassium Perchlorate
16.0 g
Strontium Nitrate
76.0 g
Charcoal
10.0 g
Sulfur
10.0 g
Magnalium
24.0 g
Copper Carbonate
20.0 g
Parlon
36.0 g
Dextrin
8.0 g

This is a breathtaking color, producing an absolutely intense magenta color.
'Electric' colors are much brighter and vibrant than normal mixtures. This is due to the presence of a metal in the mixture (usually Magnalium or Aluminum). The burning metal dramatically increases the flame temperature and also the visible luminous output.

Electric Red
Potassium Perchlorate
106.0 g
Strontium Carbonate
28.0 g
Magnalium
12.0 g
Parlon
28.0 g
Dextrin
8.0 g
Red Gum
18.0 g

Electric Yellow
Potassium Perchlorate
90.0 g
Cryolite
26.0 g
Magnalium
60.0 g
PVC
10.0 g
Charcoal
4.0 g
Dextrin
10.0 g

Electric Green
Potassium Perchlorate
58.0 g
Barium Nitrate
46.0 g
Barium Carbonate
28.0 g
Magnalium
22.0 g
Parlon
28.0 g
Red Gum
10.0 g
Dextrin
8.0 g

White Strobe Composition
Barium Nitrate
51.0 g
Potassium Nitrate
7.0 g
Sulfur
19.0 g
Magnalium
18.0 g
Dextrin
5.0 g

Mix the components well and add just enough water to where the mixture will stick together when squeezed between 3 fingers. Surprisingly this mixture will work well even when it's still damp. Pressing a small amount into a small pyramid and lighting the top with a torch produces dazzling, bright white flashes.

Man, those things are awesome for fireworks, but I think they'd need some modification for poi.

Some of the chemicals used there aren't things I'd like to inhale. Parlon, for instance, is essentially PVC. At least some of the vapour from that will be pure hydrochloric acid. Unfortunately, all the pyrotechnic colour enhancers I've found tend to be similar. Sulphur is just as bad -- burning to produce sulphur dioxide, which will oxidise on contact with your skin (or in your lungs) into sulphuric acid. Not pleasant.

Don't get me wrong, the information is sound man. Just needs a little work is all. Thanks for the research. Very helpful.
This is kind of a pet project for me, actually (I'm a chemistry grad, and my best friend's a doctor ). I'm not so sure I agree on all the current HoP information on this, incidentally. Methanol is a pretty dangerous fuel to be using...


As for the mixtures being solid, an expensive alternative would be to have wicks dedicated to certain colours and then saturate the wicks with the necessary chemicals. Though you probably should use different wicks to avoid contamination anyway.

Kael, I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.

I say "Try it out as long as you are two states west of me when you do."

Bumpity-bump,
Check it out, http://www.more-than-light.com/index.asp
Anyone think it might be worth investing a few euro/dolars/yen/whatever?

Yeah, that stuff's been around for a while.

First thing that shocked me looking around the site was 1-litre of pure paraffin for "only" $20 We get 4-litres for £4-5...

For spinning use - "Paraffin oils burn brightly with minimal smoke residue and are perfect for most conditions, these oils are also available in color, (in this case the oil itself is colored, not the flame)"

It doesn't say what the fuel-base is for the Colored Flame Oils... the FAQ says "Our oils can be harmful and even fatal if swallowed. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting and Call a physician immediately. The product should be left to pass through the system normally.
The greatest potential danger is that, should the child or individual vomit, some of the oil could aspirate into the lungs and this could quite possibly cause a petroleum pneumonia, a very serious illness." - Which is nice and vague.
Not sure which of the thousands of petroleum distillates it is - are most of them potentially fatal?

Still, if it wasn't for the overwhelmingly expensive price, i'd try them
$12 for 200cc?! i.e. 0.2 litres?!
I doubt that would give me one burn on my poi...
Or the bulk-order back - 2litres for $90!


I wonder if they do endoresments/sponsorhip?

Epson Salt didnt work for me either....

Paraffin will never work for coloured flames. It burns too much yellow.

The stuff Kael is talking about is all the stuff I've been finding about coloured flames too. There's not much around about poi colours, cos it's the pyrotechnics guys that have been doing coloured explosions for like hundreds or thousands of years or something.

Essentially we need to take the chems they use and figure out which ones we can dissolve in liquid that burns colourless flames (like ethanol) , and will burn a colour at the temperature that said liquid burns at. Also if they didn't explode that would be good.

I've been trying but none of my mixes are as good as the flame dyes they sell here at HoP...