Question about my monkey fist heads...

Id invesitigate options for attachment of monkey fists, but i dont know how to tie them, so thats out. Oh, and as for increasted burn time with tube core, i read on another post of one way to do it. you wrap cheap old towel around the core, then wrap over the top of that wth kevlar. apparently the towel soaks in loads more fuel, and lasts just as long, because its covered from the fire. you have to make sure its sealed off, tho, or otherwise the wicks will hollow out. PVA glue, or whatever it is, over the unsealed bits, maybe?

Edit- Found the post its in:
Post with stuff about towels

@MiG : If you want to know how to tie monkey fists, google is your friend

thanks for that

Beefy,

In our design, the core can not, by design, be pulled out. In fact, the fist should tighten to a small degree, depending on what size of poi (i.e., how heavy) they are. If you would like to talk about design, please message me.

MJ

The flamma aeterna method (at least, the one on the website) is quite good. Thats a technique I've seen used in the marine world for making core-less monkey fists. Or more accurately, making the rope be its own core.

If you know how to tie a monkey fist (its not that hard to learn), then just tie a small overhand knot in the end of your rope, tie a two bight fist using that overhand knot tucked inside as its core, then tie a four bight monkey fist on the same rope using your first fist as the core. Basically you are nesting the knots inside of each other. This means you have no extra core, you have only one rope coming out of the knot, and you have 100% absorbent material, instead of a 'dead weight' of non-absorbent material in the middle. The knot will work itself tighter over time too.

Its tricky to do because you have to judge the excess rope well, or you end up with extra rope on the wrong side, or not enough rope to finish the knot. Start with much more than you think you'll need (mabye 20 feet per wick) and don't be afraid to untie and try again. There is a way to tie the knot in reverse which is a bit tricky, but makes it easier to judge lengths.

To attach, you can thread cable through the monkey fists as you are assembling it, such that the cable loop goes through the outer fist, and partially through the inner fist. Its hard to describe, but you can sort of 'weave' it through the fist to get a good connection. You can also use the rope coming out of the fist as an attachment point.

peace,
sam

I was discussing this method with someone yesterday, as well as how to calculate how much rope one needs. For 3/8" monkey fists, I think we have worked out to be 4ft to 6ft of excess rope required, whether you are making one fist or ten. Essentially, if you know how much wick is required for this method (~12ft), simply multiply by the number of fists you want to make, and add 4 - 6ft. We have our method down, now, but it is hard to give numbers, as everyone ties the knots with different tightness, etc.

I will be updating our tutorial soon to discuss the optimization of rope-use.

Matthew
Flamma Aeterna

Well, I just ordered 60ft of 3/8" wick from you (along with scads of other things), with the intent of making some big snakes w/ 30ft of it, and a pair of monkey fists with the other 30, so it seems I judged right. I'm practicing my reverse method now, and it seems I can do a nested monkey fist using 3/8" poly rope that consumes about 11ft of rope with only 1.5 excess feet. Its a bit touchy near the end, but it works.

The monkey fist is not a hard knot once you've learned it, but it is notoriously difficult to describe, draw, or take photos of because of its highly three dimensional nature. All my fire buddies were amazed that I was making monkey fists, but I think once I show them how, they'll say 'oh, thats not so bad...'

Considering the amount of time it takes me to ram a tube through kevlar tape to make cathedrals, this monkey fist business doesn't seem so hard at all.

I would love some more information on how you attach to the cables however... I'm experimenting with threading cable through the knots as I make them, but if you've come upon a great method, I'd love a picture or description if you have any!

peace,
sam

I'd be interested in a description of the reverse method--I haven't figured that one out. For the regular method, I've made a little jig out of dowels and some 1"x1", which makes it a lot easier to start off pretty snug--I've also set it up so I can make 5-bight knots if I want to.

Adam,

Working a monkey fist in reverse is essentially "threading" a fist. You start from the core and work "backward" from the way you would normally tie the fist. After you have the first bights around the core, you thread the end all the way back to where you would normally begin. It's a big hassle, but it can save one a few feet of rope if one can do it without pulling one's hair out. Easier with stretchy rope (Like the KF we use).

On the topic of saving rope; when making monkey fists either "in reverse," or when one has accidentally cut off exactly how much one needs, instead of having enough to make tying the knot comfortable, I have been working with stabbing a very long piece of KEVLAR(R) cord through the rope very near to the end of the rope, and use this as a guide to pull the rope through the knot. Another way to do it is use some cheap rope that is the same diameter, temporarily whip the end of that rope to the end of your kevlar rope, and treat it as one long piece. At the end, recover your cheap rope. So, in essence, you can buy exactly how much expensive KEVLAR(R) blend rope you need, instead of 5ft extra.

MJ
Flamma Aeterna