The Problem with new spinners today...

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-"Try it without the poi first"

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-"Here, watch me!" [And do the hyperloop slightly differently every time]
-"You're thinking about it too much! Just let your mind clear"
-"Let the poi move you"
-"You've almost got it... try it faster and closer to your face."
-"Visualize it"
-"Be the poi"
-"Yup, that's it!" [When they clearly can't do it]
-"Watch, 1,2,3,3,2,1!" [Just count randomly while doing the trick for no apparent reason]
-"Try it without the poi first"
-"It doesn't work unless they're on fire"
-"I learned that in London, I can't teach it in New York" [Works for me only]
-"Which move did you want to learn? This one?!" [And then continue doing the wrong trick] "Or this one"?

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Man your one funny Pimp. Had me laughing out loud there....I'm so gunna use them.

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You could teach a child to play Mozart, but it wouldn't mean they could play piano...

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i was one of those child geniuses (so to speak) when it came to piano. i'm no rachmaninoff or beethoven, but it was one of those things i just got. i even thought about quitting at some point and my piano teacher BEGGED me to not. she tried to teach me my scales, keys, technique, theory, all that crap. and i just couldn't get it. i'd learn it for maybe 10 minutes...long enough to make her think i understood, but then it got away from me. i couldn't tell you what a single chord is or what key a piece is in. but i can play. it's one of the few things i do well enough to actually take pride in and (humbly) boast about. so in that respects, i think there are people who can learn isolations and hyperloops and btb 5 beat and all that stuff i'm crap at without learning the very basics. (they're the kind of people who REALLY frustrate me just cause i'm such a slow learner at poi and i wish i could be like them! )

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When teaching chemistry, I've got tons of tricks that I COULD tell the kids to allow them to get the 'right answer' on an exam without actually learning the concept. Of course, I don't tell them the tricks until AFTER I feel that they've learned the concepts. And the same is true for poi.

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Most people will go away and practice and they can sort out their planes on their own, but they only have so much time with a teacher and i know i certainly want to gather as many tricks as possible when i'm out, and take them home to practice.

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what a great point miss star

it hasn't really been mentioned in the teching moves thread (which is like this one but with a larger scope and more spiritual/philosophical viewpoints).

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But in terms of teaching (not just poi) isn't it better to provide someone with the basics so that they can then go away and learn and develop moves themselves?

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this is the crux of the whole argument

see the teaching moves thread for full discussion of this point but seeing as this is becoming somewhat of a reduced copy of that thread, i'll reiterate the counter argument for that durbs.

i think dave mentioned this point earlier in this thread and it is that maybe what we see as advanced isn't actually that advanced - it's just we discovered it later.

who is to say that if you teach a beginner hyperloops that they will not understand them?!
is it not possible that they will go off and play with them with the fresh vigour that we had when we were 'inventing' moves based around the 'basics' we were taught?

and as an extra thought, anyone ever wondered what would happen if you taught a beginner that isolated spinning is the basic spin style for poi?

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But in terms of teaching (not just poi) isn't it better to provide someone with the basics so that they can then go away and learn and develop moves themselves?

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this is the crux of the whole argument

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Then isn't the answer pretty obviously:

Both is better than just one or the other. So teach a few moves and a few concepts. Just like everyone i know who teaches spinning already does.

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yes.
probably.
you smart arse

different strokes for different folks i say.
every teacher is different, as is every student.

on a related note, i think this is quite an interesting read.
it is a parent looking for a teacher for their talented child.
they choose not to use a teacher that has proven results and has produced students of world class standards partly because of his attitude and partly because of the style he instills in all his students.