#276121 - 17/01/04 11:46 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: TheWibbler]
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the henna lady
Registered: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
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LOL...Now ya'all had to go and get me started. I am cooped in with a storm, so sit back and get ready. (and NYC, Durbs, all those who have been through this with me before...feel free to just bypass this!) 
This is a topic that gets brought up at least once if not twice a year, and what I am most appreciating about it is that there are people responding in this in favor of keeping it not-as-tech for the audience who used to argue with me about how it is more than light/fire in circles. I feel like a proud mama! :P 
New arguements brought up this time:
Quote:
In my opinion ~ if you spin for anyone but yourself you will impress upon no one. The Poi Flow through your Mind. The skill is in unifying your Mind to control the poi Directly.
I guess you didn't get into poi by watching a professional then? There are literally hundreds of people who saw a poi professional on a stage and decided they wanted to do it too. I would say that is definately impressing upon someone. I have had people offer to marry me, tell me they wanted to be like me when they grew up and ask for autographs for routines the tech spinners would concider beginner and rudimentary.
This has nothing to do with Ego and everything to do with a career I am passionate about, and in that career Poi is a very, very small part of what I do. There are so incredibly many people out there who are soooooo much better than I am in ways I can not even begin to express, to the point where I hate to spin around other spinners for fear of the criticism. No ego, it is my job to make it interesting to the audience, not interesting to me on stage, and that is the challenge I enjoy facing.
And for the record, the poi don't flow through my mind. They are so ingrained into my body memory that many moves are automatic and flow in a very controlled way without my even sparing a brain cell on them. To me, that is my ideal of flow and challenge in poi, whether on or off the stage.
Orignally posted by Simian:
"I don't think this is really about audiences who don't spin, but about unobservant or uninterested audiences."
That has nothing at all to do with it. In a five beat the nuance is in the wrist. Do you really expect someone sitting 10 feet, or more, away to notice that? Or what if they are watching at night? Same with most moves. Hyper and air look like tangles. An audience can be interested all they want but since they don't know what to look for they will not catch some of the extreme subtleties in the differences of what we do.
It takes alot of technical skill in a very different way to be a performer. We challenge ourselves on stage with making the things look like more than "light/fire in circles". And to an untrained eye, after awhile, that is what it looks like. My guess is that you saw a 3 beat weave and a 5 beat weave before you learned (if you were one of the lucky ones to see poi) and didn't know the difference. Does that mean you were uninterested? No, it means you were uninformed. And most people tend to want to stay that way, because then the mystery, illusion and danger of what we do is not detracted from. Very much like learning the trick to some great magical feat, some people want to know all about it, and others don't. The dichotomy helps keep my career in order.
And I need to add that it takes a tremendous talent/skill to really present it to the audience in a way they appreciate. And may I remind you all that at some point the weave, the butterfly, the windmill, thread the needle WERE DIFFICULT for you. It is with that mentality that a non-spinning audience watches a spinner.
I know that I like to learn some of the harder moves to challenge myself, even if I never use them on a stage.
Moves I find don't make an impact, no matter how much you do them..
Hyperloops and airwraps...they seem to look like tangles no matter how you do them.
Anything over basic beat (meaning 5 or less).
I disagree with throws. Audiences love them, but if you are in a situation where the audience can't see them, perhaps you need to turn up the lights or find an alternative then.
Long ago I remember that NYC came to the realization that he did what was (at the time for him) a difficult move which was met by silence. He spun at his sides really fast and the crowd went wild. For those who aspire to perform, this is a huge lesson to learn. For those who just want to spin, have fun doing whatever it is you choose to do.
Performing is about dynamic presentation.
Technical is challenging your own boundaries.
Both have virtues and drawbacks, and it is really a personal decision which route you choose to take, and neither is right or wrong. There is enough room in the world for both.
Edited by Pele (17/01/04 11:57 AM)
_________________________
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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#276122 - 18/01/04 12:44 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: Pele]
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monkey
Registered: 11/10/02
Loc: London
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#276123 - 18/01/04 05:08 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: simian]
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the henna lady
Registered: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
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You mean if they're unobservant, yes?
That is not unobservant at all, that is not-educated to the nuances. Big difference. Unobservant is not paying attention, they can pay attention till their brains hurt and still not see the difference.
Quote:
But an interested and observant audience will pretty much always appreciate technical difficulty with relation to coordination and physical feats, without any need for prior knowledge.
Hmmm....I don't appreciate the technical difficulty of each move in a circus performers repetoire. I appreciate the fact that I know what they do is something I can not and that they do it fluidly and adeptly. To non-spinning audiences simply spinning very fast looks difficult. It is not, as we know but they don't know that. They appreciate the presentation and that it is something either unique to them, or difficult appearing to them (though I get alot of people who say..."that's not so hard" because I make it look easy, then when they try it they hit themselves and realize it isn't).
In order to appreciate technical difficulty, you need to know that a move is technical to begin with. The average audience does not.
In fact, in performance art classes and such (I learned this from the juggling community, from the circus community and from the sideshow community) it is a very common thing to be told to do the difficult stuff after hours to challenge yourself and keep your stuff fresh (or use it to create performances for peers) but during a show keep it simple. The audience is still loving it because they are not in the know and are there to be entertained, not learn what is hard for you and what is not. In performing something you can do in your sleep there is a security that a) you won't mess up in your show and b) that it will be safe and the same each time, which is something alot of show producers want. Consistency of performance quality is a big factor in professional performing.
And you already said the important information for if a spinner happens to be in the audience...they are usually impressed anyway. Not to mention that if you are doing a show it is all about presentation anyway, and hopefully that is something stronly unique to you.
Remember this is about a non-spinning audience, and they think "Pretty lights..oooooh, let's check that out" initially. It is what draws them in, but since they don't know the difference between a 5 beat this and a 50 beat that, the pretty lights only hold them so long (especially in a day show). At the end of the day it is the show you make beyond spinning that keeps them. That is a huge key to any performance, and especially to busking btw.
Quote:
erm, yeah. If they didn't look like a tangle then you'd have missed... 
if you mean they always look messy, then you haven't seen them performed well.
I believe we are discussing things from the audience point of view and without fail I have heard "It was great till you tangled", not only aimed at me but aimed at other spinners. Smaller circles can be achieved other ways, though I suppose if you spin in darkness it doesn't matter which way you get them.
Most of the time in a show period doing four hyperloops in a row to make sure they get the point that it is intentional (as someone suggested) will lose the audience. One of the other things I have learned from so many sources is to not do anything more than 3 times in a row. Thanks to tv we are dealing with a society bred to have a short attention span. Doing them 5 seperate times in a routine looks like you ran out of stuff to do. I am not saying don't do them. The original question was about what you have found works or does not in a performance, and in the stage and busk type performances I have done over the past 5 years I was sharing what I found and explaining it, from how I am told by my not-in-the-know friends, to regular audience to what I have learned from being an audience member who takes notebooks to other peoples shows to take notes on what works and doesn't in presentations, and why.
In the end it is all opinion because all audiences are different.
Cheerios! 
_________________________
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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#276124 - 18/01/04 06:06 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: Pele]
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Aotearoan Adventurer
Registered: 11/04/03
Loc: New Zealand
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Pele: Ego manifests like this: Quote:
I have had people offer to marry me, tell me they wanted to be like me when they grew up and ask for autographs for routines the tech spinners would concider beginner and rudimentary.
Hmm,
Quote:
to the point where I hate to spin around other spinners for fear of the criticism
This is caused by your desire ot 'spin for other people'. If you internalise your movement then any one watching will be Impressed Upon because the Love you have for your art Shines through. If you are spinning for the audience then this doesn't happen and your performance will never be as good to watch. And anyway, if you are spinning solely for yourself then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
Quote:
And for the record, the poi don't flow through my mind. They are so ingrained into my body memory that many moves are automatic and flow in a very controlled way without my even sparing a brain cell on them. To me, that is my ideal of flow and challenge in poi, whether on or off the stage.
Do you comprehend the difference between Brain and Mind? There seems to be some confusion. Your Brain is inside your head and is used to teach the body how to move without its intervention. Your Mind however permeates every cell in your body and extends out and around your person. Where it mingles with the minds of everyone around you much akin to milk in hot tea.
Quote:
it is my job to make it interesting to the audience, not interesting to me on stage
Well, if your poi doesn't keep you interested then why should anyone else find it interesting. Your Mind should maintain a pure and fundermental bewilderment for the remarkable things your body can do
Quote:
In a five beat the nuance is in the wrist. Do you really expect someone sitting 10 feet, or more, away to notice that?
Whilst I agree that the 'nuance is in the wrist' ~ You seem to forget that your wrist is connected to the rest of your body and the movement ripples through every muscle in your body ~ And Yes, anyone will notice that. As for performing when the viewers can't see your body ~ For me the body movements are essential to any performance and far prefer people to be able to see everything.
Quote:
Hyper and air look like tangles.
Maybe yours do, mine don't.
Quote:
...they will not catch some of the extreme subtleties in the differences of what we do.
Of course they won't. But the overall effect of someone spinning super techy stuff with utmost Flow leaves a huge impression on people.
Quote:
It takes alot of technical skill in a very different way to be a performer.
I absolutely agree, if you are a truelly great performer it doesn't matter what you do with a set of poi, people will love it. However, if you are a fantastic performer who can do increadibly complex poi patterns then they will Love it even more.
Quote:
And I need to add that it takes a tremendous talent/skill to really present it to the audience in a way they appreciate.
Again I totally agree. My solution for this is not to Try to impress anyone but myself. If I can impress myself with poi then it's gotta be a great performance to onlookers.
Quote:
I know that I like to learn some of the harder moves to challenge myself, even if I never use them on a stage.
Why would you choose not to use a hard move on stage??? Personally I find that when I really get an audience going I can pull off super hard patterns I never even tried before.
Quote:
Moves I find don't make an impact, no matter how much you do them..
Hyperloops and airwraps...they seem to look like tangles no matter how you do them.
Anything over basic beat (meaning 5 or less).
Firstly you should learn how to do clean hyperloops. Secondly I'd say that up to 5 beat moves are generally all I use. However I mostly break these patterns up by dropping in a couple Releases, hyperloops or under the leg stuff.
Quote:
Performing is about dynamic presentation.
Technical is challenging your own boundaries.
The Duality of poi. For me Poi is a 'visual interpretation of the sound I hear. Why not try to challenge the boundaries of your performance by using more technical moves?
And don't forget that what You call 'Techy' today shall be considered 'Easy' by a new generation of spinners. As they perform more, so audiences will become more informed. Then the basic stuff just won't cut it.
Like I said before:
'The goal must be to do the most technical moves with utmost Flow'
_________________________
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
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#276125 - 18/01/04 10:26 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: TheWibbler]
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geek, level 1
Registered: 15/12/02
Loc: everywhere
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 clean airwraps have never failed to make any audience go wild(pele you have to put them all ove the place hence not repeating...) *  's matt for being my alter ego...* a note: (apologies in advance for appearing ego, i am just trying to relate a going-on.) in south island NZ 'techy poi' doesn't exist. when i arrived and played in the park, at a couple of gigs, at the regular meet....i had 2 responses from poi spinners saying 'cool, can we learn all these tech moves' from non poi spinners saying 'cool we have never seen spinning like that before' especially the airwraps seriously tho it was all the stuff that 1 year ago was not even vaguely in the mainstream of poi and is considered on this board to be techy boring nerd stuff by many that i have been asked most about. as PPP says what we consider hard future generations of poiistas will consider basics...most of the moves i spent ages learning from scratch take my students a few days or less to get smooth as. non performing friends of mine make observant and insightful comments about spinners... as this happens more and more then again to quote PPP "As they perform more, so audiences will become more informed. Then the basic stuff just won't cut it" and i'm afraid i couldn't agree more.  R
_________________________
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
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#276126 - 18/01/04 11:26 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: bluecat]
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member
Registered: 19/10/02
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne , England/...
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Hello Rob
Yes techy moves are great. Don't want to sound egotstical either, but I get bored of watching 'samey' poi.
i have been shown air wraps by your good friend Rob(also) in Edinburgh.
Pretty impressive. I can only say that I have managed it perfectly once. A little bit if fear coming into play unfortunetly. Maybe this should give me the push to try again.
Performance moves VS. Techy moves..Mmmmm...I think its great when something really different catches your eye. It cuts gently away from you already know and pushes that excitment.
Maybe I am a bit of a nerd too when it comes to moves, but don't want to get bored now do we?!
Hope you are still having lots of fun in NZ
_________________________
Hilary
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#276127 - 19/01/04 05:33 PM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: TheWibbler]
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addict
Registered: 17/10/03
Loc: Aotearoa (NZ)
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Quote:
'The goal must be to do the most technical moves with utmost Flow'
But then again that is your goal...and that wont apply to everyone. I am by no way standing up for Pele here (She'll let you know what she really feels) but i think if your trying to use buddaism or the Tao or what ever it is your into to bing others down or make your self feel better it aint working, because its only your opinion or belief, and we all have the right to believe in our own, no matter how wack or out there it may be.
Dude i could rave for hours about how my people invented poi and how they have a life of their own and a sex (mostly they are female) and... and ...and... but that is my belief and i dont impose it on anyone, and to tell the truth im sick of this word "ego".
If you guys are really having trouble keeping a crowd interested (and im really guanna get flamed for this 1) try lying on your back doing buzzsaw or butterfly and blow a ten foot fire ball (A.K.A Volcano) into the heavens.
Bring on the flaming
Edited by Taniwha07 (19/01/04 05:35 PM)
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#276129 - 20/01/04 12:28 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: ben-ja-men]
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veteran
Registered: 01/05/02
Loc: London, UK
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I agree mainly with Pele here in that there are a lot of moves that can't be differentiated if you're performing for others... but this doesn't mean that they're not worth doing if they contribute to the flow of a set. And if you're performing in the dark with firey/glowy stuff then a lot of more technical moves come into their own because they do produce different patterns. But in all things I think being able to flow well is the most important thing, rather than being able to do lots of separate moves
_________________________
"Moo," said the happy cow.
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#276130 - 20/01/04 02:51 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: Pele]
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big and good
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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pele said this: Quote:
Moves I find don't make an impact, no matter how much you do them.
Hyperloops and airwraps...they seem to look like tangles no matter how you do them.
...
without fail I have heard "It was great till you tangled", not only aimed at me but aimed at other spinners. Smaller circles can be achieved other ways...
which is interesting cos i kinda said the opposite:
Quote:
however (in my personal experience) hyperloops and airwraps done properly look beautiful ...
the fact that a tangle done well will often not look like a tangle at all is the whole point for me.
they remain the only way i've found to get decent spirals into my spinning.
pele, i find it quite bizarre that we have such opposing views about the same thing
either we are doing very different things or the audiences you have performed for are vastly different to the ones i have experienced here (admittedly comparably few to the number you have seen).
like rob said though, airwraps go all over the place - with enough skill they fit pretty much anywhere where you are moving using cross follow (weave motion).
its not fair saying "Most of the time in a show period doing four hyperloops in a row to make sure they get the point that it is intentional (as someone suggested) will lose the audience."
the fact that they fit wherever there is a transition from one side of the body to the other (or even just from normal to inverted planes if you include static airwraps) and that there are a whole bunch of ways of doing them (vertical or horizontal with leading or following arm on top/in front, buzzsawed and the variance of string length depending on tangle point) means that saying 'four hyperloops in a row' is not far off saying 'four weave moves in a row'.
[bonus example of a not boring 4 airwrap combo that i can actually do most of the time at the end of this post ]
i still reckon that well controlled tangles are the one reliable way to get decent spiral patterns into your spinning.
club swinging snakes (aka isolations) work too but are far harder to time and join together imho.
"Smaller circles can be achieved other ways..."
i'd love to know more!
if you can describe how you do this i'd be hugely grateful
of course wrapping chain around hands makes smaller circles but flowing spirals are down to a combination of larger circles from arm and elbow circles with smaller circles from tangles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
pele's requested move (a not boring version  ):
4 hyperloops in a row - base pattern is wall plane 3bt to rev 3bt weave (poi direction is fwd on right hand side (rhs), rev on left hand side (lhs)).
1. from behind on rhs, perform abasic hyperloop to front on rhs.
2. enter rev tangle buzzsaw in front on lhs, exit behind on lhs.
3. from behind on lhs enter rev hyperloop, exit front on rhs.
4. enter tangle buzzsaw in front on rhs, exit behind on rhs.
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#276131 - 20/01/04 04:21 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: spiralx]
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Scoiattolo de mare
Registered: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
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hummmm, you can perform very efectively with totally non techie moves (aka NYC's "do the weave fast") untill someone comes along who can perform techie moves. By this I dont mean just accompishing the moves, but performing them, making them accessable for the auidence, realising how to present and flow between techie moves. To add to the airwrap debate if you show your audence the change, if you exagerate the circles and chages in size or direction, and if you do it clean, the auidence dosnt even have to know what your doing, they just follow the pretty lights. with standard moves you can do a lot, but technical ability expands you repitoir, giving you more dynamics to play with, shurly a good thing in a performance enviroment? For me its all about circles and body shapes, what does it look like? for this reason i think normall 5 beat is pretty useless, but 'split' 5 (with one hand spinning at the elbow/shoulder) can be really effective. A standard parrelel extension gooks great, but if you add ww to it it becomes continious, and the whole body position begins to change. Also, there is such a thing as tech performance, where the whole point is the difficulty (percived or otherwise) of the tricks. A good example is the 'big finnish' in street/circus routeens, where the performer has worked up his tricklist methodically untill it reaches an unbelievable peak (see the walking globe man, pole on the chin, ball bouncing on the poll, juggling 5 balls and walking on a globe, not bad) of course to pull this kind of performance off you really have to be shat hot. In poi, one of the best looking tricks is also one of the hardest, yes, Im talking about isolations. thease twist peaples heads up something rotten, they can be added to anything non tech so all that range is still there but they remain a real brain bender. especially if you slip a couple of airwraps in to prove they are indeed flexible. so in conclusion, i dont think there really is a distinction between techy and performance moves, its just a distinction between performing and playing, anything can look good presented right. T
_________________________
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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#276132 - 20/01/04 05:34 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: coleman]
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the henna lady
Registered: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
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I am not responding to PPP because of the aggressive nature of her post and because of the extracting what she chose to twist things around. I really do not appreciate it and will be moving past it, except to say that my mind is not in every cell of my body and I did not make my statements on that assumption. Coleman, all audiences *are* different. They come with difference experiences and expectations. Where I live, and in fact at other things I have seen, the wraps are percieved as tangles. Just sharing experience. I am glad that for you they work. Rob, I did distinctly include them being placed in a routine here and there as well as in a row. I expressed that in either situation it does not work. I know I am doing them fine, the people I perform for don't enjoy them. The Four in a Row was a completely fair and valid statement which was based on someone earlier in the thread stating that if you do many in a row that people eventually get the idea that you are doing it on purpose. My statement relating to this was yes they do get the idea but that they will also lose the audience in that time. I think it is funny that I am getting flamed for having the opinion that airwraps and hyperloops don't work. We were asked for opinions, I gave mine and I stand by it. I recall someone saying that they felt throws didn't work. I believe they do, but I didn't flame him/her for it. Spiralx, no one is saying don't do a move if it adds to the flow. It is more of a "don't expect a resounding reaction for it" type thing. No where has anyone said that things must always be tech or must always be basic or "absolutely don't do this". It is up to the spinner completely. The audience will react to whatever moves them. Again, it is up to each performer. I think I will now return to my rule of not posting in these areas and leave you all to it. I want to say this is also why I don't submit videos or spin for other spinners. Too much criticism and emphasis on what everyone feels should be done instead of appreciation for how it is presented. I love what I do and am very passionate about performing and I don't appreciate being asked for an OPINION and then ripped apart for expressing it (this is not to all those who just expressed a differing opinion, I completely respect that you have different experiences with different audiences and a *very* different style of spinning from me, which is where your opinion comes from).  ~P
_________________________
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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#276134 - 20/01/04 06:38 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: Pele]
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big and good
Registered: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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hey pele. cheers for your reply "We were asked for opinions, I gave mine and I stand by it." i think the reason you got 'flamed' (and all that really means in this case is 'i got a lot of direct replies to my post') is because the statements you made were exactly that - statements. more often than not, rather than say 'i think...' you said 'this is how it is...' if you percieved any aggression in the replies you got i think it may have stemmed from the fact that your posts were a little dismissive and set out your opinions as fact. please realise i am fully appreciative (and very respectful) of the fact that you are a professional performer and know many, many other industry professionals too - i always ensure i read your opinions on these subjects because of this. in part, this vast experience is why i asked for some comments on your spinning technique (small circle - i have heard a lot about what you think on the subjects of safety and performance but due to your 'rule', rarely see you around this forum when you surely must have a lot to share  ah well. back on topic: the big difference between intercontinental audiences thing is very bizarre i think. it made me wonder how a circus can manage to tour the whole world with the same show. maybe a circus like that would be better recieved in the us but less well in europe or vice versa? has anyone performed extensively in both the usa and europe that can comment on this discontinuity...? and finally (not directed at pele, just to clarify the comments we have already made): "The Four in a Row was a completely fair and valid statement which was based on someone earlier in the thread stating that if you do many in a row that people eventually get the idea that you are doing it on purpose. My statement relating to this was yes they do get the idea but that they will also lose the audience in that time." i still don't quite understand why you would lose the audience here pele's original argument was that "Doing them 5 times in a routine looks like you ran out of stuff to do" and mine and rob's point was that there is so much variety available that you could likely do a large portion of a routine with airwraps (tangles) alone and not repeat a move once.
_________________________
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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#276135 - 20/01/04 08:05 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: Pele]
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Scoiattolo de mare
Registered: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
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Pele, this is a flame, you wuss. you cant expect to hold forth so definatly and not get peaple (specially peaple who are in love with airwraps) comming back and expressing why they think your wrong, i mean, you spent large portions of your posts saying that other peaples opinions were wrong. i.e. 4 in a row debate. for someone with such experance to say "Im not going to contribute, cos peaple dont like me and say nasty things" is pathetic. personally I think a lot of the stuff you said makes sence, I agree about performance being much more than a set of moves, and you hint a a deeper knowlege of performing than you have ever shared, so share it, dont scare it! common love, we're all friends here, no need to sulk. T (cor, what a nice flame )
_________________________
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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#276136 - 20/01/04 08:21 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: coleman]
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NYC
Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Everyone pois for different reasons.
Everyone performs for different reasons.
I think that many people in this thread are posting their opinion as fact. And not only that, but taking their own personal experiences as uncontrovertable supporting data.
Again, we've got huge Egos here... most of whom don't understand the word Ego and think it's an insult because it is often used as such. There is Ego in EVERYTHING we do... especially career. On the other hand, any statement that starts with "The goal must be..." is opinion and is, in a way, offensive. I don't think anyone should dictate what MY goal for poi is, despite the fact that they practice more than me or take it more serious than me.
I'm sad to see people using their perspective as the only perspective and their opinions as the only option.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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#276138 - 20/01/04 09:44 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: TheWibbler]
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Bastard newbie messiah
Registered: 14/03/03
Loc: Apparently lost in my ego
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I don't understand all this...
I mean there are a loit of techy moves out there that can be done beautiflly.. like the 7bt weave.. it has a flow.. but its a different flow... a lot of people aren't comfortable with it but it can be done nicely.. and yes people can notice.. and say "wow that's didfferent.. but honestly.. its an extra rotation... for the audience just another circle...
offset weaves.. not an offest 2 bt weave.. but 5 and 7 beats weaves offset.. and even offsettting an already offset weave.. getting wierd combinations like the crossovers some SA kidz think they invented.. crowds like it because it breaks up the monotany(sp?)... one person said it looked like I was taunitng people.. its the same reason they love wraps.. because its broken and random yet continuous and flowy..
sam,e reason they love airwraps... its something that appears to defy logic (even though it makes perfect sense)...
the crowd digs showmanship.. speed control, flow, appearance..
poi people dig technical sides... creativeness, difficulty, etc..
I say learn it all... test yourlimits... I always use my showy stuff until I meet a poi person then I get all techy...*shrugs* to each their own..
now the hyperloop discussion has me kinda confused..
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More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
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#276139 - 20/01/04 10:34 AM
Re: Performance Moves vs. Techy-moves
[Re: Rev]
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geek, level 1
Registered: 15/12/02
Loc: everywhere
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Pele i'm sorry you feel this way about what you percieve to be unnecessary criticism but in my opinion is necessary discussion. I find it fascinating to read your opinions on technical AND performance spinning.(and yes i know we've been holding similarly opposite points of view on this subject for quite some time now.... ) but please stick around and hold your corner on this one or the thread will become poi-ntless. so. two things: 1 remaining on subtopic. one not. the not remaining on subtopic but back to the original point of the thread: with a stick, i find the most wonderment i provoke is doing either contact, acrobatics, or *really* high throws.(haha, i missed the comma between contact and acrobatics first off... but now i can do cartwheels with the staff on my body maybe i should have left it out anyway!  ) and once again the contact is the most technical and yet produces the most  however there are a few ultratech moves that people just don't see... fishtails(got a huge round of applause on the renegade stage in front of 150 jugglers, none doing double fishtails in front of a 'regular' audience) being the most obvious example. decided to leave the other point to a pm... so over and out. cheers R
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Holistic Spinner (I hope)
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But at the end of the day, how much they appreciate what you do depends on whether they are really interested, o just watching to be polite, or watching and thinking "ahh pretty" without analysing. 
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