Teaching Moves (or...The Longest Post Ever)

hey ade i haven't forgotten you. i've been using my spare time to search the old board for a decent answer to your question... time is getting scarce, been BUSY...but truly answering your question has been the work of my life for some time now!
my first answer?
take a yoga class!!!!!! for at least a few months.
for poi, if you don't want to become a yogi, and only want to do a bit, try and focus on the standing, warrior poses, really learn how to stand, and raise your arms. a good teacher should be able to show you how very slight changes make big ramifications.

I totally agree. I only just figured that out recently, extending you arms just a slight amount can change everything and especially when your getting bored, u can take the same move you'v been doing for ages and turn it into something "new", well it aint really new but you get the idea, and the few people i taught love it, cause it helps expand your base. It all has to do with base, pyramids and basics. I love those pyramids Arashi, thanks man, my whole universe has changed, and now my base is huge.

Freestyle ON!!!

thanks arashi - I appreciate it, because it's talked about quite often, but I've not seen a core comptency list ever emerge - it seems to be a nebulous sort of thing

but I really appreciate any thoughts you have, the yoga one was a great start
respect indeed

Hi Ade, I’m butting in a bit here, but if u want a core competency list try Schatz. It’s also interesting to note that Anna Jillings combines yoga with club swinging.

With learning I think we all find our own paths, which usually includes lots of practice.

Butt away stone (unless you've been haning out with bender emulating the butting likes of llamas.....)

thanks for the schatz reference - yet another reason to go back and read that classic tome

couple more. i'm slammed busy right now and no end in sight. here's some of my beginner class lessons.
there's such a language shortage here, i'll stick to stuff understandable in hop jargon.

glass mentioned tai chi. i'll second that, i teach tai chi stances and weight shifting from class one. it rocks.

longarm pendulums, with turns. throw in some flowers circles intermittently too. also try smaller pendulums, then stalling at the very horizontal points, and then moving your hands during the stalls. these all fit together.

moving around between split time and regular TTN in all locations, all heights. and move your feet!

nobody really does much horizontal moves, which makes no sense to me. htey are very different from vertical and each has many benefits.

1 beat butterfly- i suppose they would be "crossed weaves" where one is stacked directly on top of the other, IOW the crossovers are parallell. so you're doing two 8's almost exactly overlapping, on their side. IOW poi are always on opposite sides from each other on the outside of the 8 but cross over at the same time right on top of each other, parallel. this one is invaluable even though that probably makes no sense. {edited to attempt more calrity}

well at that i'm throwing in the textual towel til next time

reading this thread really confused me . I never had a teacher for poi or staff . Then I went to a small convention here in Bavaria and who was there ? Robert Heart . My heart jumped , I've never heard before anything about this guy he just told me that he's doing double staff and that he'll teach me some things . That was really a crazy convention because I had so many expectations and I really wanted to learn something from this guy . But he didn't teach me many things and for me it seemed like he avoided me . Well that was really said . This first "meeting another spinner from anywhere" situation in my life made me suspiciously . Now I made the plan to go to the BJC , expecting that there are at least a few nice spinners out there in the world
don't want to learn from videos and texts anymore

I'm already very excited and so this thread was like a shock for me . Should all the things I've been practising for more than a year be useless ? Should I really relearn all the things ? I don't know why but even to imagine that makes me frightened in a special way ... after reading this whole thread I need a break before I can response in the way I want to . Damnit Iam too confused to make at least one clear sentence



bye
duvan

Don't worry so much!!! If you made Robert Heart avoid you then we all like you already! Mr Heart is all talk, glitter and ego with no real style.

If you're going to the BJC you'll meet people who will show you a lot of cool things. And if you go to the EJC you'll meet even more people!

@dom....

yes. worry not duvan. this thread was not(i thinkk) intended to make people feel their learning was worthless; if anything i feel it has highlighted how many different ways of learning there are.... so just play and learn the way you think is best for you, then come to the bjc and ejc and everything will change *mwahahahaha*
cause of the sudden impact of loads of spinners(and at least 99% of them lovely and helpful and unRHlike

smiles
R

arashi, i loved your message. i have to say i'm quite new to poi, although i'm spinning for a few months now. a few years ago i was backpacking in thailand and discovered some poisters for the first time in my life. i thought it was so beautiful, but i just feared to talk to them and ask them how to do it.

few years later, last year. i still didn't know what it was they did and built my own poi to try to do the tricks the ones did that i saw in thailand. then i found this site on the net and copied the tricks in the lesson section. anyway, i could do the tricks, but somehow i couldn't link them together and somehow it also wasn't fun at all. and i thought maybe it's because i don't know too many tricks and bought a book about poi spinning and in this book it said after the basics: "time to play, just have fun!" and that was the best thing that could happen to me, because i started to play a single move for like 5 or ten minutes and now i can just "dive in" into a move, i don't know how to describe it, it's just like i'm floating with it, although it's just the basics. i'm still in developing my own style, and i still have to learn alot, but now is the time where it's making a lot of fun.

just so sad i haven't read your message earlier!

actually, duvan, i would hope that you came away from this thread realising that you don't necessarily have to have a teacher at first, as long as you keep working on control with the basics all over your body and playing, then you will be ready for a teacher cause they can build upon your vast base of control with refined techniques. whereas if you only try to begin with more complex moves without control you will have to spend your techer time working on control and cleaning up.
that being said i know from experience that having a good teacher from the start is the absolute bestest. i'm teaching a teenager to do BTL and pendulums and stalls and butterfly crossovers and wraps really well and she's only benn spinning for two months. having a quick learner is great, i can see such a realtime verification of my teaching techniques.

novalee, cheers, i think you are just beginning to have fun! the more those basics are there, the easier and fun-ner things will be later! it only gets better!

found this paragraph somewhere in my archives, this'll help ade. sorry there may be some confusing terms.
Start this exercise off with the chalk grip or pencil grip in your dominant hand. Swing the chain in a clockwise circle in front of you in the wall plane, as if standing in front of a chalkboard and the chain were describing a circle on the surface of the chalkboard. Try to minimalize the amount of movement your hand is making. When you get your hand movement down to almost nothing, pay attention to the force you are applying to the chain. If your plane control is dead on, and not flopping around like a bent bicycle wheel, the force which your hand applies to the chain to keep it going will really only happen in one key moment, when the poi is between 6 and 9 o'clock. After that the wick should just steer its{ follow its true course, until it gets to the 6 again, and you apply just enough tug [upward?] to keep the process going.
After you get a feel for this, try moving your hand around. As you do, pretend you are holding a piece of chalk and not a handle. Trace large letters or pictures on the "chalkboard" with your hand until your hand is comfortable guiding it no matter where it is. Use your hand in different positions, so your wrist has to bend, sometimes holding the chalk and your hand perpendicular to the board, sometimes at an angle. This will give your wrist and hands a sense of independent dexterity. []Now try it with your other hand, and []both hands together. []Next, to make things even more fun, try moving your body around while keeping the chalkboard in the same place, and slowly twisting your wrist also. You can step back and forth so the chalkboard is closer and further away, you can bend over, put your hands between your legs, you can even turn, eventually turning all the way around so your arm is behind your back. Practice all positions with both hands.

Most importantly try turning your wrists up or down as you go, so that you can "write" with your wrist in any position, facing up, or down, or anywhere in between. [Doing this exercise a lot will enable you to do most behind the back moves just as easily as one right in front of you. To me there is almost no difference .

I just want to say thank you - as this is the greatest thread ever - and I am learning a lot from it - especially to trust myself that having fun with my poi is part of the learning process.

Thanks for being so interested.

*cough* oh was that me

That was really beautiful and inspiring. I didn't read all the comments, because I don't have the patience right now, your post was long enough.

It's interesting though. I was really interested in spinning when I first started, and had only minimal help in learning from real people. Most everything I learned I either figured out or started getting from the lessons here. And then I got busy or distracted, and stopped. I've picked it back up a year later and am amazed that I still have all my moves.

The part of your post that really interests me is the aspect of teacher/student. I really only know a handful of I'd say advanced beginer to low intermediate, but I haven't seen a lot so I don't really know. Anyway, the best girl I know who is also a friend, started dating my roommate at the same time I picked spinning back up, and is therefore over a lot. I had always considered her an uninvolved mentor of sorts, as I watched what she did and tried to figure it out later. She was so graceful, and ultimately fancy tricks do not impress me if they are not carried out with style and grace.

So she saw me spinning one day and was like, "wow, I didn't know you could spin, you're awesome!!!". A few days later she dubbed me her new mentor. And was like, "I can't be your mentor, you're my mentor" We still fight over this, but as it turns out we had two almost opposite moves, and in figuring out how to do each others, we have each unlocked the ability to many more, or at least know how to conceptualize moves we've seen, even if we're not coordinated enough to do them yet.

I really wish I knew more people in my town who spin, so that I could get together and watch.

Thanks for taking the time to get all those thoughts on paper.

Not sure how I came about this thread. But started to read it anyway.

Thanks for that Arashi.

I'm still pretty much a beginner, and have been getting alot of insparation from the videos etc. I was amazed when I first watched peoples stuff and tried so hard to become good as quick as possible. but was getting so annoyed with myself because I couldn't do the moves and look as fluid as you guys.

Only now am I reaping the awards of keeping stuff plane and simple until it becomes second nature. The rest of the stuff is now beginning to fall into place nicely now, as I'm not having to think about the moves anymore, and just go with it.

Wish I found this earlier on.

Thanks again

wow - nice thread thanks for reserecting it kiteman

when I teach I try to emphasise the concepts rather than the moves. I also tell students that the way I'm teaching them and the way I do it is just an interpretation of natural geometries that we all know, we just have to realise it.

On competition - I see it as extrinsic motivation. Its very difficult to maintain motivation when it comes from comparisons.

In cross skill studies of experts and expertise, its very rare to find anyone who gets to the top of their field without having a thorough enjoyment and dedication to what they do, first and foremost. Oh and also - in terms of expertise in a given field or body of knowledge in general ppl are not considered experts until they have been studying and practicing skills and knowledge as their primary occupation in that area for at least 10 years. and the learning curve continues increasing until you get too old to do what you are doing. Perhaps with something like dance or gymnastics there is a physical component that limits you when you get older, but I reckon with juggling and poi and most other things, there is no reason why people shouldnt be able to spend a lifetime increasing in skill.

I love what I do and I'll keep doing it for as long as I enjoy it. We are all entitled to that.

thanks again for this interesting reading Arashi. I have greater respect for many ppl in this thread because of it (not that it was lacking, but anyhow )

Josh

And thanks to you all for the thanks. I'm very glad you are getting something out of this thread. It's still my favorite

Having FUN with your poi is really what is going to make this poi thing catch on... I really want to raise the bar across the world so this can one day be an olympic sport, or at least a woldwide financially substantial art form like ice skating etc... simply standing there and doing moves can't possibly sustain your "fire" for more than a few years, or the audience for more than a few performances. and as Josh was saying...

I've been spinning pretty darn zealously for about 8 years, I'm one of those people blessed with a REALLY quick learning curve, and I still feel like i have a long way to go! There's so many beautiful styles of dance, and so many ways to integrate flexible weapons! My mind reeels with the possibilities. With so much to learn and so many that have come so far, why worry about how far everyone else is in their path, save perhaps to give yourself a goal to shoot for? Just have fun. And work hard. do bflies while watching tv or better yet smash the tv and watch yourself in the mirror

Yes, I remember reading this thread 2 years ago and being very moved and inspired from it... don't know why I never told you that, maybe cuz I was a lurky turkey. It was very encouraging to me at just the right moment... thanks!

lurky turkey