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Fishtails

      
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#163734 - 20/08/03 03:55 AM Re: Fishtails
bluecat Offline
geek, level 1

Registered: 15/12/02
Loc: everywhere
[Embarrassed]


lovely uninspired spin yesterday to put me in my place.


just working on wall plane fishtails....mmmmmm [Idea]
_________________________
Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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#163735 - 29/08/03 10:49 PM Re: Fishtails
Morkai Offline
member

Registered: 20/08/03
Loc: The ib....
I may have got the 'Wrong end of the stick' but i think fishtails are easier with longer staff..in contrast to what tanessa said.
Im about 5"10 and me staff comes up to my shoulders and i can do about 250 fishtails in either hand in either direction...
I think the weight makes it easier cus' me' staff is a heavy git! [Wink]

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#163736 - 30/08/03 12:57 AM Re: Fishtails
bluecat Offline
geek, level 1

Registered: 15/12/02
Loc: everywhere
quote:
Originally posted by Morkai:
I may have got the 'Wrong end of the stick'

[LOL] [LOL] [LOL]


think it just depends on what you're used to.

[Angel] R
_________________________
Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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#163737 - 05/09/03 05:21 AM Re: Fishtails
duvan Offline
ancient oachkatzlschwoaf

Registered: 13/11/02
Loc: germany
my experience : don't try fishtails if some persons are standing next to you

"a fishy business"  -

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#163738 - 05/09/03 03:00 PM Re: Fishtails
Stone Offline
Carpal \'Tunnel

Registered: 13/06/01
Loc: Melbourne
Me and a few of me twirling mates are getting into fishtails by spinning the staff on the back of the wrist. Now, that hasn’t worked for me so far, as speed kills, and I’m going back to just balancing the staff on the back of my wrist and doing basic contact stuff [Smile]
_________________________
The ingredients of health and long life are Great temperance, open air, Indian Clubs, little care.

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#163739 - 13/09/04 11:55 PM Re: Fishtails [Re: bender]
Twirly Offline
Shoryuken!

Registered: 25/05/04
Loc: Hexham, Newcastle, England
:bump:

I still have absolutely no idea whats going on here, and I don't have realplayer so I cant see those vids :S

Am I just trying to keep it spinning round continuously by shoving it round with my hand? Cos I can't do that lol. Is it meant to look like what alienfox's little alien dude is doing? Or is that irrelevant?

What kind of pattern will the actual staff be making if I do it right?

Sorry, I find it hard to visualise staffy-goodnesses.

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#163740 - 14/09/04 12:05 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: Twirly]
ado-p Offline
Ninjaneer

Registered: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
Here are two very clear posts from PK and Bluecat that really helped me alot.

I havent read any of this thread so i hope im not repeating anything....

I just learned how to do this about three days ago as you'll see here

I've only just started to learn contact, its much fun and hurts.

Written by:


Fishtails: Forward

Path of the staff

The path that the staff travels is like when you kayak, each end of the staff stays on its side. As a starting point it is helpful to hold the staff like a paddle as if you where kayaking with both hands on the staff. I find fishtails are easier to do on the side of your body as the hand movements to stop the staff from hitting yourself are smaller. After having paddled infront of yourself try paddling on the side of your body.

Hand movement

Now that you have an idea as to where the staff has to move you can practise the hand movement. with your palm facing down move your hand in a halfpipe shape. When your palm is facing directly down to the ground this should coincide with when the staff is parallel (well close to) with the ground. When your hand is coming from the right hand side to the left hand side the staff end on the right side of your body with be furthest away from you as visa versa.

If the staff is parallel to the ground and your hand is not the staff will go sliding off, be aware it will do so quite quickly and if you have a grippy grip its like carpet burn without the carpet.

You want the middle of the staff to be as close possible to the middle of the back of your hand/wrist to make the movement as balenced as possible.

Speed

Try to do the move as slowly as you can as it is very easy to hit yourself with this movement. There is a rhythem to the movement, just remember that if you do it fast you will have to move your hand very fast to keep up. If you do it to slow the staff will stall.

Starting the fishtail

The way shown in the video is roll the staff over the back of the hand, so that the staff rolls from your little finger end of the hand to the thumb.

I find that doing a figure 8 to the side of the body holding the staff with both hands flows into the fishtail nicely. Make sure that you position your hands so that when you do the back hand roll the middle of the staff will be close to in the middle of your wrist.

Steps to learning the move

1. Practise the kayaking motion

2. Practise just the hand motion

3. Do the hand motion and hold the staff on your hand using your other hand

4. Practise doing the palm roll and taking the staff to the opposite side of your body on the back of your hand

5. Practise the palm roll over to the other side and back again in the fishtail

6. Do 5. and repeat without the palm roll

two handed fishtails.

a beautiful slow move that has helped me enormously in smoothing out my fishtails.

put the staff on the backs of both hands to your right side.the hands should be approx 40cm apart on a 150cm staff... the hands will not move from this position with regards to the staff, so i will refer to the staff ends as the left hand end and right hand end...

so the left hand end is pointing in front of you.
lift the right hand end and drop the left hand end making 1/2 a revolution and moving both hands to the other side. this should end with the staff is the start position but on the other side of your body.... repeat but the other way.

the second hand stabilises and makes fishtails easy... the movement of both hands is veryvery similar to the movemnet on one hand fishtails, hence why i use it as a practise.

for backwards you use the same start position...only you lift the left hand end and drop the right hand end. make the half revolution. and tadaaa! you should be there or thereabouts.




Best o luck

a

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#163741 - 14/09/04 12:19 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: ado-p]
Twirly Offline
Shoryuken!

Registered: 25/05/04
Loc: Hexham, Newcastle, England
AAaaaaah thank you very muchly. As you can see, I was waaay off track.

I can tell this will screw with my head, but cheers!

/goes and plays.

EDIT:

/comes back inside.

Nah I'm too sh1t for that, I'll find something else to try.

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#163742 - 14/09/04 12:50 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: Twirly]
ado-p Offline
Ninjaneer

Registered: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
Dont give up, practise balancing it on the back of your and move around with it. Do LOTS of hand rolls and stuff and try loads of variations. I still cant do it very well but it'l come evantually.
_________________________
I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.

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#163743 - 14/09/04 02:55 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: ado-p]
Twirly Offline
Shoryuken!

Registered: 25/05/04
Loc: Hexham, Newcastle, England
Aww your encouragement is much appriciated. I'm bound to try it again some day, but I'm feeling a bit down at the moment so anything that frustrating is just going to make me angry with myself.

I read how you (I think) do palmspins while leaning forward, I'm gunna go try that instead, see if its easier (cos my palm doesnt 'do' flat.)

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#163744 - 14/09/04 01:00 PM Re: Fishtails [Re: Twirly]
musashii Offline
starring Skippy the green llama

Registered: 14/12/02
Loc: Seattle, WA
anyone played with horizontal fishy tails yet? lots of fun, I'm sure it would look great w doubles.

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#163745 - 14/09/04 09:56 PM Re: Fishtails [Re: musashii]
ben-ja-men Offline
just lost .... evil init

Registered: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
ooooo trixy
_________________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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#163746 - 15/09/04 02:40 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: musashii]
tenticle Offline
Cheesecake Impersonator

Registered: 13/08/02
Loc: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
yep, clockwise and anticlockwise horizontal ones... discovered by accident when playing with a cricket stump. they're one of those moves that really pis* off devil stickers when you borrow them and do contact instead...

--ben

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#163747 - 15/09/04 03:33 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: tenticle]
Dr_Molly Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/05/04
Loc: Away from home
is that like a devilsticking curl but without the handsticks?

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#163748 - 15/09/04 09:25 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: Dr_Molly]
tenticle Offline
Cheesecake Impersonator

Registered: 13/08/02
Loc: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
dunno what devil stickers call them... i just like asking for a go, being crap with the stick things and then handing them back and using my hands instead... devils are so nicely weighted it's untrue...

--ben

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#163749 - 16/09/04 09:29 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: tenticle]
Jarviz Offline
Member

Registered: 27/08/04
My first post, wheee!

I've been trying to understand what a fishtail is and just couldn't understand how I was supposed to pull such a move of until I watched the video, which were an amazing help. But, here is my problem, I can do it, sort of, but I'm using a 142 cm Concentrate staff and just seems to get away from me when it gets up to speed. Someone mentioned that the move is easier with a shorter staff, does that mean that it's really, really hard with a long staff?

I'll keep trying to do it though
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Jarviz

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#163750 - 16/09/04 09:35 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: Jarviz]
musashii Offline
starring Skippy the green llama

Registered: 14/12/02
Loc: Seattle, WA
Welcome to HOP

part of the reason might be the weight of the concentrate staff as well, fishtails were easier for me to learn when I had a heavier staff. The length didn't make that much of a difference as the weight for me.

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#163751 - 16/09/04 09:45 AM Re: Fishtails [Re: musashii]
Jarviz Offline
Member

Registered: 27/08/04
Thank you!

I think you might be on to something, my staff is pretty light but the distribution of the weight could be the problem. The ends are very heavy in comparison to the center which probably is why the staff has a tendency to "slide" away when I try to do fishtails. Whenever I get to the point where one end of the staff is pointing down it starts sliding away and I can't right it using just to top of my hand. This could just be because I need more practice though
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Jarviz

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#163752 - 16/09/04 10:47 PM Re: Fishtails [Re: Jarviz]
ben-ja-men Offline
just lost .... evil init

Registered: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
you want to work on making your fishtails slow and controlled, id say its most likely sliding because you are moving the staff from one side of your body to the other when its not parallel with the ground. also do the fishtails to the side of you rather than infront when your using a long staff you dont have to move the staff so far
_________________________
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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