3 beat weave with doubles

It's just a question of terminology.

Keeping consistent with poi terminology (which helps avoid confusion more than create it) means that in split time the rotation of one stick is 180degrees further on than the other, and they are parallel.

In parallel time the rotation is the same, and they are still parallel. That doesn't mean split and parallel time are the same with doubles though. Just the sticks are in the same position.

Crosses (offset by 90 degrees) are quarter time, just like spinning poi at 90 degrees.

I understand all the timings (and can do the 2 beat) but I still can't manage the 3 beat without fingers. I went back over that old thread and it didn't help. I hadn't really been giving it too such effort (without fingures) up until yesterday but I gave it a few minutes last night to no avail...


I might give it another while cause it might just click in but I still want to know about these shoulder snakes.

Do they actually cross each other at any stage or does left hand stay left and right hand stay right (next to each other). Where does the throw off fit into the pattern? I presume you can only do these with match sticks otherwise how do you avoid impaling your heart on circle one.


Or is it that say while doing snake circle one with right hand, your doing circle 2 (with the left hand) and both sticks miss you on your left hand side.... and then circle 2 right hand it done with throw off on left hand and repeat or something like that....

Man if that's it, it sounds really sweet... *yummy yummy* or is it man overboard here

stuff about the Doubles 3 beat i know of...

Matchsticks or long arms are indeed necessary.
and the staffs do cross, or it wouldn't be a three beat weave would it?

Its very similar to parallel 3bt weave with poi. ever tried it? its an education...
Needs lots more placement than split time

But if you've got weave and butterfly 2beat crossovers with doubles you should be cool
(wierd how cross is easier innit?)

There's a very odd feel to it as you slide the rotating parallel lines over, under and around each other.

i cannot do this well, but have seen it on a few occasions.
was first showed it by Claire, Ogre\Tim's girlfriend
only seen it looking really smooth once, by Dantana(?) on Dio's booty vid(?) i thiiiink.
although possibly he was using fingerspins, or it was all in my head.

The usual disclaimers for possible stupidity and wrongness apply

Yea, obviously they have to cross... it's I think the last paragraph I wrote is the snake version. I say version cause my understanding is that it's different to a normal 3 beat? oh and possible super cool

er, trying to work out description.

you're talking about a kind of isolated weave, with the staff held toward one end, thumb facing outward. yes? or no?

IF SO...

can't think of a way of crossing hands like you describe (on left side, left hand inside, right hand outside) without hand-arm clashes during the circle though.

oh yes i can. doh! parallel (not split) timed. i think. yeah.

You wouldn't need big sticks for that. But with small sticks you could mix in isolated buzzsaw thingys too.

Seen a guy who was possibly King of Bongo or possibly Trees and Beetles doing nice double staff isolations inside and outside the arms, buzzsaw stylee.
Dromepixie can do that too (after i told her she should )

Hey, you could cross your arms like you can (well, like Cole can ) with poi isolated buzzsaw. (is that "inverted" or something else?) You'd need actual matchsticks or the arms of an orangutan to do it comfortably though.

on a totally unrelated note - quarter timed isolations (with poi or stick) look gorgeous
Jonny Moohaahaa used to do them quite a bit, but i've never been sure if it was on purpose

What I said mightn't make any sense. I'm sitting here holding a pen and a ruler like clubs, trying to do discrete snakes at my desk and trying to imagine there's another half to the object (making it a staff) and still see where they fit.

I'm kinda speculating, hoping that one of the 2 to mention the snakes (Josh or Rob)'ll come back and explain 'em.

i was wondering that too - seems like they would be cool until you twist up enough to have to throw off which would be ridiculous with 5' staffs

must be something to do with the crossover untwisting the snakes so you never get to the point where you have to throw off...

will ask rob to demonstrate later and if he hasn't replied already, i'll get back to ya tomorrow.

Nice one dude

i was like this close --> || to remembering to ask rob about this earlier.

but then i forgot

sorry man.

DSS the bit in the old thread that I thought was of value was the bit by funkenflug.

Quote:

---

..The learning process is rather simple, too!
(but not easy, i´m afraid, and it takes some time). As Stone already said elsewhere in this thread, start by gripping your staffs at the end and do the weave.(Do yourself a favour and use rather short staffs when first trying this). This shouldn´t present too much of a problem for experienced twirlers (yes, good poi-technique helps a lot here, even better yet if you have some club-swinging experience). Now while doing the weave, slowly change your grip by allowing your fingers to slip towards the center of the staffs for a few inches. Concentrate on keeping up the weaving motion you started out with pretty much undisturbed by this subtle grip-change. This is not easy at first. You will notice that the "short end" of the staffs is very much in the way, but persist and the move will get smoother rather quickly. Now when you have the basic technique down your aim is to increase little by little the "short end" of the staffs while at the same time keeping the move fluid and avoid collisions of the staffs and body hits-ouch (Its all in the wrists!!) When you manage to grip the staffs dead center and still weave them - success!
Take a time out to pat yourself on the shoulder and then graduate to longer staffs.
Speaking from experience, weaving 1.2 m doubles is perfectly possible and looks quite smooth. I´m still practicing on my 1.5m performance staffs and i´m quite convinced i´ll get it to work eventually, its just a matter of time and persistent practice.
Have fun trying the move!, by funkenflug

---

I think if people are using snakes to complete a weave then they are probably doing a double on each side. I’ve been trying the double on each side but without the snake. If U want to learn more about snakes then see Anna Jillings site on clubs and poles look under Club Swinging.

Just a note before I go back into hibernation. I think it is confusing to talk about it split and parallel time because, imho, they both describe different things. Like u can have parallel and alternating moves in same or split time. In the poi world, is there not an alternating, split-time butterfly. CU

will reply with description of 3 beat with the alternating snake tonight when I have more time to analysis. Katinca is cracking the whip to get ready to go out...

Josh

I can do snakes one at a time with my staff but my progress was cut short last night when I smacked myself in the eye and had to run inside for ice... ...kinda lost my enthusiasm after that

Yea I know when I learnt to weave with my clubs it took a little getting used to. Is it the same wrist co-ordination or even more I wonder. I'll try the slowly creaping back toward centre tonight me thinks.

That'd be really cool Josh...
No worries Cole.

Ok, got the normal 3 beat.

I'll explain what clicked for me in case it helps anyone. Say circle one is right hand over top of left, then circle 2 is right hand underneath left hand on the left hand side. I couldn't do this because the pinky side of the right hand stick was getting caught up somwhere between my left arm pit and kinda pointing at my face.

I moved the pinky side from in between my arms to outside my right arm, while the thumb side of the stick was completing circle 2 on my left hand side,under my left arm.

Once I got this 2 beat and then the opposite side it clicked.

It does feel like there is some kind of adjustment or small seperation (my hand are definetely not next to each other) to make it work but it is definietly a 3 beat with no fingers...

as i recall i showed simone this one on tuesday so he can come back and explain it. just one snake either side (2 would give you 4 and 5 beat weaves, tricky but not impossible with 5 footers)
i would, but i'm on ultra slow dialup so can't be stopping

soon
back to the burgh and all the playtime in the wooooooolrd*evil laugh*
R

ps i'll be hopping into the other stick thread about names and sturf then too... wait for me would ya?!

when seeing it, i discovered the source of my, and possibly your, confusion

stone say:
I’ve been trying the double on each side but without the snake.

bleuchat say:
just one snake either side (2 would give you 4 and 5 beat weaves, tricky but not impossible with 5 footers)

i think when Stone says snakes he means proper ass clubswinging snakes like what is in Ms Jillings nice instructions. Where you hold toward one end with the thumb pointing toward the end of the staff.
Thats what i mean by snakes too...

Bleuchat means a low doublespin (i think) which does use the same wrist twisty action, but is held in the centre of the stick.

so i was thinking "3bt + snakes" meant isolated buzzsaw crazy weave but it didn't.

Hmm, i still don't quite understand it yet (even tho i scene it)

Way i saw it:
Both sticks do half a rotation on the non-reaching side, and a full rotation on the reaching side, with one stick half a rotation ahead of the other.
OR
Both sticks do 1.5 rotations each side, with one stick half a rotation ahead of the other.

but i may be wrong on both...

um. no. sorry.

proper reply when i have time.

hugs
r

ok heres a description of what I'm doing;

both sticks held in the centre, twirling forward in wheel (think segway) plane, parallel timing. Which ever hand is leading in the cross to the other side does a normal figure-eight movement to cross to the other side of the body, while the other hand does a 1/2 snake (the 1/2 snake starting after that stick hand completed its turn of leading) to cross. Then as the first snake finishes, start the other hand snaking, it should be on the other side of your body and snaking back to the start.

The snake movement is used to float that staff from leading to chasing. So, the snake is the swap before the cross, the same as that in the 3-beat weave with poi.

Does this make sense?

Josh

yeah cool, cos that means

Quote:

---

Both sticks do half a rotation on the non-reaching side, and a full rotation on the reaching side, with one stick half a rotation ahead of the other

---

which was my first guess. Yay!

hmm, maybe should have qualified that: non-reaching side is left for left hand, right for right hand. reaching side is right for left hand, left for right hand. but who cares cos josh has now explained it with clearly clear clarity, clearly

now i just have to practice this thing for long enough without getting frustrated and doing poi instead

Don't get fruterated! To tell you the truth poi and doubles are about the same thing/ same movements. The cool thing about the Double staffs is that you can toss and catch them a bit easyer.

I say the 3 beat weave IS posible, but it is a lot nicer to look at just 1/2 of the weave or the "split chase" '2 beat' they have been calling it. Its alot easyer to spinn 180 and 360's with as well. You can also come inside your arms with it the weave , or stop one staff and start "Staff Slaps" up or down (depending on weather you are going forwards or bakwards.) There are alot of different combos you can do from the Double Staff Weave. I just think the 2 beat looks and is alot nicer to do than the 3 beat.

It'd be real nice to see this...it's hard to learn just hearing descriptions.