Need help with baton?

hehe - love the contact stuff..

Wasnt sure about the championships video, so I didnt buy it...I think I will have to upon return to the UK whereabouts access to a video is a possibility. I think you can buy it for about $50US from the ustwirling website www.ustwirling.com

You guys are all caining!! tis great to see

my contact stuff is pretty basic...neck roll to neck pinch reversa back over the neck to elbow grip to elbow roll is about the hieght of it at the moment...Love it tho...its nice to get so close to my staff...hmmm did I say that wrong?

Big wassssup! from Vienna.

Goa tonight!

pozee, mail coming soon!

UK contactees, I'm going to be in the neighbourhood soon, I really wanna see this stuff!

Contact!

Josh

Be Well All

in schiphol airport.....

when i get back i will (shock) copy the video for those in desparate need.

back in 2 weeks with moremoremoremore stuff learnt from crazy finnish crew

josh get in touch when in uk....few festivals for you uto go to if interested..?

x

yeah josh, come visit! if you wanna see the highlands theres a place here for ya!

N

reply for Nix - your post on Aug.7, you were talking about a flatspin on the back.

Where on the back? lower back, or upper back between the shoulder blades (because the latter one is the neck spin I was descibing). The body has to turn the opposite way from the direction of the staff spinning. This move looks like the staff is spinning in between the shoulder blades on your back.
I haven't seen that particular video, but if I saw it I would try to give you my best explanation of all the moves you are trying to describe. I will be going to train (baton only)with my childhood rival in the early fall. Afterall, I may as well get lessons from her because she is the best there ever was in baton...ever, and I don't know who else to go to who is that advanced. She isn't that far away (next province over). After that, hopefully I will be able to depict more stuff in detail for you, and when I come out there, show you also.

You guys are doing great, I can't wait to hear more of your moves you're working on.

yeah, the one between the shoulderblades.

does the staff and body keep turnig continiously? or are there pauses in the body rotation?

jelouse of you going to see that girl, shes amazing.

N

Ok Rob,
I'm taking you up on that offer
nice one,
Don;t know if i should send you and address, or come up north and collect it;)

See you
Drew

This months games for me are:
Continuous Vertical spins on the back of the neck
Continuous neck wraps, (this one is still killing me since nix?s thread)
sore neck ooh

Yes Nix, the staff and the body keep turning continuously. It's like doing an open palm hand spin above your head, while turning the opposite direction, making it look like more more rotations are actually happening with the staff. Same thing with the "neck or shoulderblade spin".

I am in the prairies now already, my travels plans are always so obscure, I am currently 1000 miles out of the way from where I planned on being now. Oh well. Only another 1000 to get back. Starting early on those pro lessons, all over again.

quote:

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"...but to carve and shape the very atmosphere through which we look and see, that is the finest of the arts"

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[josh] do you ever read your PM's ?

Just watched the start of one of those videos on that baton site you recommended
I recon I know where I was going wrong,
I need a frilly skirt and a lot more make up and stick on smiles to get my staff to work.

Glass

glass, and a big rubber bung!

Tennessa, im glad your off course, best way to travel.

slowing down onna new staff moves, partly cos im injured and partly cos i got lots to learn offa rob. will say horisontal shoulder to across chest and catch behind back.

N

oops I lied the videos are here, not on the site josh said, I'm busy downloading at the moment, theres a couple of really nice contact moves in here.
I'm not a thrower, but I can appreciate the quality of some of these

http://www.worldsbaton2002.com/index2.html

Now I know where Robs getting his inspiration at the moment.

nix LOL. and on the merchandising on the site Josh recommend they have the "OFFICIAL" baton twirling leotard. I got to get me one of these.


Glass

phwaooor
watched the first one again
12 variations and ideas for me to work on, plush.

number 2 at 58% cant wait
cant wait tee hee

yeah, its kinda sickening, reasuringly mechanical tho.

gotta get back into it, been letting stuff fall.

N

oooooh oooooh back tomorrow to edinburgh with new and improved body designed for fire, asbestos hands and fire retardant deodorant waiting for return to madness(with some nice noo stuff to test also.... )
soon
R

have decided to enter british baton twirling champs next year in build up to world bid in 2004
just you wait!!!!!!!!!! *deranged laughter*

*swallows*

aaaahhh amazing what modern medication will do for you...
so after a swift rreturn to sanity, i feel it is time for a nooooooo move, not spetted on vid but sure it is there somewhere...

ooooh f*ck. feel this should be on new contact stuff... but feeling rebellious in my old age

doubles going same direction(clockwise, sametime) right hand staff drops over right hand onto back roll then down inside left arm for right hand btb catch....make sense? (if not will be problems to follow...)

as the first staff is being lifted out by the right hand the left hand staff goes btb upwards inside right arm into back roll, and out along left arm,wrist and hand.... so you kind of get a wierd sort of mirror thing going on....

ok so no sense made at all.......sorrysorry for wat of time... but brain picking is available for a fee of 10 euros/minute(or free hugs whichever get to me first....)
R

Ha, ha, ha, ha. It's great to see you guys watching baton competition videos. It really is a talent that I hated until I was "Down Under", and was turned on to a new way to baton.....staff it!!! Now I love it, and I can say I've put what I felt was a useless talent into something I enjoy, and look forward to doing. I won't say staffing is easy, it is hard as well, I know, I should send you the pic of me with my shiner from hitting myself in the side of the face with my stick. Yah, I've ruined a few shirts and baggy pants, have the odd staff battle scar, but I never hurt myself with my baton ever!!! All though I should have, with all the crazy shit I've done. Glad to see you guys still challenging yourselves.

O.K., I feel it about time to bring this thread back up. I have been asked questions as to how to perform certain moves, and I will try my best to explain them as I am asked. I can´t at the moment send a private email back to those asking, but hopefully by explaining a few things on this thread, will help those in question. I shall soon take the time out to explain in detail the thumb toss, which will give anyone the ultimate control on any toss you will want to perform. This means for height, and propulsion, as well as stability of the throw, period!!! Plz give me a short time to gather myself back to another internet cafe, to start the instructing.

quote:

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...but to carve and shape the very atmosphere thru which we look and see everyday, that is the finest of the arts!

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THUMB TOSS:
The thumb toss is like a forward spinning toss, but with greater control. This toss is not just released out of your hand, or off the palm of your hand, whether facing up or down, it is tossed off the thumb. Lets use the right hand, assuming most people are right handed, and for you lefties, do it in other hand, opposite direction:
To start: - start with the staff in your right hand, out in front of you, making a fist around the staff (palm facing down), (like you just reached out and punched someone in the face)
Lets also pretend that you have two different color ends on your staff, right now the end on the left is blue, and the end on the right is red.

1/ - turn your fist over so the palm is facing up, the staff making a half rotation (now the red end is on your left and the blue end to your right). THIS IS WHERE MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK TO RELEASE THE STAFF UP AND INTO THE AIR. Lets take it a step further from the open handed toss to the thumb toss here.

2/ - while your palm is facing up, open your fist, and let the staff make another half rotation, with the staff feeling like it is stuck between your thumb, and the forefinger part of your hand (the first finger so to speak), THIS FEELS AWKWARD AT FIRST SO DON´T BE ALARMED. It should now look like the blue end is back on the left (as far as it can reach), and the red end back on the right. You should feel like the staff is just stuck there, and physically will not rotate anymore.

3/ - This is where you will release the staff from, this awkward feeling position. So, back to the start, before practicing the toss, just practice turning your hand over and letting the staff make its full rotation, getting stuck (not spinning anymore). Get familiar with this ´´STUCK THERE´´ feeling. You should feel like if the staff turned anymore, someone was twisting your arm off, he, he, he. So, once you can´t spin it anymore, that´s when you will release the staff off the thumb and up in front of you.

Once you are confortable with this, you will be able to control the toss more. For example, try to just do small tosses up in front of your body, not really tossing the staff higher than head level, and than catching it. You will notice that the harder and quicker you spin the staff before you release it, the more spins you will have in the air, suspending it there longer before having to catch it.

Being a former baton twirler, our batons have a big end and a little end. This is also why I refer to practicing with two different color ends on your staff, one blue, and one red. Everytime I would toss the baton up and catch it, the big end has to be caught on the left, and the small on the right, to show a complete rotation, or rotations before the catch. If I were to accidently catch it with the little end on on the left, instead of the right, it would show that it was incomplete of a full rotation, no matter how many already made, and I would be docked marks in a competition. This is a baton ´´no-no.´´.

So a good practice for tossing the staff with two different color ends is:
Try to make the staff spin a full rotation in the air before catching it. Then move onto making your staff complete two full spin rotations in the air, then three spins. By the time you have made your staff spin three full times in front of your body before catching it, you have got ´´great spin on it´´. After three full rotations, you will also realize that you will probably have to start tossing the staff up higher than head level to get in more rotations.

Play with this toss, and get confortable, and you will see the great control you will have. All your tosses will end up going straight up and down in front of your body all the time, with as much spin on it as you want to put. The term ´´putting spin on it´´, refers to the speed and the propulsion you put on the staff before releasing it, enabling it to be suspended in the air longer. The more complete spins you have on your staff, the longer it will be suspended in the air, enabling you to do more of whatever under the staff ie. spins, cartwheels, whatever funky moves you´ve got, before catching it.

I hope that this explanation is easy to understand, if not, plz reply and I will do my best to re-explain whatever parts you need. For some reason I thought that I had posted this thumb toss already on another thread, but I could be wrong. It never hurts to post the info again.

Just a little word on the physics,

the spinning speed of a staff does not change how long it 'hangs' in the air, only the degree of upward force. It may apear so, but i think thats more to do with the relation between the vertical velocity and rorational velocity. I.E. more spins for the same arc, making it apear slower.

Nix?

nix is bang on there. the spin will most definitely not affect the amount of time the staff is in the air - this is dependent purely on the height it is thrown to.

for the geeks out there... the speed of the spin affects the angular momentum of the staff.
the higher the spin speed, the greater the angular momentum.
like linear momentum, ang. mom. must be conserved which means the faster the staff is spinning, the more energy is required to change its plane.
the same applies for poi and clubs by the way which is why its easier to keep poi in neat planes when you spin them fast.

Right on guys, couldn't agree more.

One other thing to note, Tanessa, as firestaffers aren't judged by Baton Twirling Judges, there's really no need to catch the staff after a full rotation.

In my humble opinion, that limits the variations possible with throws to half of what they could be, and doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Is there some other advantage that I'm not aware of here?