#155160 - 04/09/02 03:25 PM
coloured flames
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member
Registered: 15/04/02
Loc: australia
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has anyone had experience with mixing potassium permanganate and kero??? ive read a few msds'and i think it will be ok but if anyone has any input im listening!
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#155161 - 05/09/02 06:22 AM
Re: coloured flames
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Liscensed to Sell Intoxicating Liquors
Registered: 26/10/01
Loc: Bath, England
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Hi jeremy, This has been discussed in quite a lot of detail in previous posts. Here is how to do a search : Click on Technical Discussion. Under the button that says 'New Post' click search. In 'Search Word' box put 'coloured' and in 'Search In' box put 'Title Only' Then you should see a list of 9 topics that discuss flame colouration ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif) Hope this helps, Mark P
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#155163 - 06/09/02 01:42 AM
Re: coloured flames
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Liscensed to Sell Intoxicating Liquors
Registered: 26/10/01
Loc: Bath, England
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Personal experience with Chemicals : I have tried using Lithium Chloride, Boric Acid and Strontium Nitrate for flame colourations. The best results were from Boric acid runs (green flames) but the strength of the flames was fairly weak ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif) The main problem with using these salts for colouration of flames is that they wont dissolve in kero/paraffin you have to use either ethanol or methylated spirits. These fuels produce a flame that is a lot weaker than that produced by kero/paraffin and therefore it dosent look nearly as good. Here is a link to a couple of Boric Acid pictures and you can see what I mean : Boric Acid Boric Acid and Paraffin soaked doubles so that you can make a comparism Another thing about Boric Acid is that every time we have used it we have all ended up with nasty coughs so we only use it for special occasions now ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif) Hope this helps Mark P
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#155165 - 06/09/02 07:06 PM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 26/09/01
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
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Send a Personal Message to Supafly off this board. He has experimented with everything possible involving colored flames. I believe he said that the Potassium Permanganate sucked. It didn't show up very good or something along those lines. Might want to ask him, though. I do know that you will hae to use denatured alcohol to dissolve it, though.
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#155166 - 06/09/02 07:14 PM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 17/06/02
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are any of those chemicals safe to have in your mouth?
I don't do fire poi nor do i breath fire, but I imagine it would be interesting to shoot out a green flame while still using the normal bright fire for your poi.
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#155167 - 07/09/02 01:20 AM
Re: coloured flames
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NYC
Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Not only aren't the additives good to put in your mouth. But neither are any of the fuels that you'd use to get the additives to show that color. Bad idea.
_________________________
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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#155168 - 07/09/02 05:55 AM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 17/06/02
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ok then completely ignore my last post ;D
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#155169 - 12/09/02 06:57 AM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 17/05/02
Loc: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
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What I want to know is ne safe chemicals that will properly mix with kero/parrifin for breathing. Some depressent that is hard to get will dissolve in kero and gives a purple flame but i don't know what it is called
_________________________
You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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#155170 - 12/09/02 11:03 AM
Re: coloured flames
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Sporadically Prodigal
Registered: 25/01/01
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
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Lithium.
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#155171 - 14/09/02 03:42 AM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 17/05/02
Loc: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
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NO it isn't lithium
_________________________
You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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#155172 - 14/09/02 04:01 AM
Re: coloured flames
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Liscensed to Sell Intoxicating Liquors
Registered: 26/10/01
Loc: Bath, England
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<puts on dress to get into Theater mode> "Oh Yes it IS!" No I was only joking I would be careful using any inorganic salts to colour flames for breathing, you need to check out the MSDS safety sheets as most of them are dangerous. I know for a fact that Lithiun Chloride is a strong anti depressant type drug and when it is in tablets it will be in much lower concentrations than you need to colour a flame. The other chemical I use to colour flames is boric acid which is coincidently used as rat poision - am I going to put that inmy mouth? - Am I *$%£! - It is bad enough when you are spinning with wicks that have been saoked in it, it seems to give a nasty cough. Oh well that is my 2 peneth worth and I highly recomend you find out FULL information on anything that you are going to use. P ![[Roll smile]](graemlins/ubbrollimages/icons/smile.gif) Play safe people BTW : someone was talking about using potassium permangenate to colour flames earlier if it does work which I dont think it will have a second thought - if you get KMnO4 on any of your clothes it is gauranteed to stain, as is the same for skin and it will make a mess around.
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#155173 - 14/09/02 07:11 AM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 17/05/02
Loc: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
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Where is our mad scientist when we need him?
_________________________
You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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#155174 - 14/09/02 09:11 AM
Re: coloured flames
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NYC
Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Lithium is a depressant and hard to get but gives a nice red flame as has been discussed eighty bafriggin zillion times.
Potassium burns purple as stated in the article on THIS website.
This HAS been discussed. The colors of the metals NEVER changes. Here is the section of the article...
*****
Boric acid, which gives a green/blue flame. This is sold in pharmacies in powdered form as it has antiseptic properties.
Lithium chloride, which gives a nice red flame. Tricky to get as it's an anti-depressant.
Copper chloride, which gives a good green/blue flame.
Indium, expensive and hard to find, gives a deep violet.
Other which are theoretically possible, but might not give such good results are:
Strontium compounds - red.
Calcium compounds - orangy-red.
Barium compounds - green.
Potassium chloride - a purple flame.
White gas (liquid gas e.g. Colemans camping fluid) - a white flame.
Dry gas (as above) - a blue flame.
*****
The only thing that burns purple would be a potassium compound. This has all been covered. Potassium (Anything) should burn purple. I use potassium nitrate or chloride. It burns purple. I burn it in my class. I have burned it. My students burn it. We all agree that it looks purple.
This is getting old.
_________________________
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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#155175 - 14/09/02 09:26 AM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 17/05/02
Loc: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
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But is any form of it safe to put in your mouth
_________________________
You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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#155176 - 14/09/02 10:10 AM
Re: coloured flames
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NYC
Registered: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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Ug... by doing a search on the "internet" I found that Potassium Chloride is present in many "salt substitutes" such as nusalt Therefore it is sold in edible format as well. I do not know, nor does anyone else, if this format will dissolve in whatever fuel you want to dissovle it in. Since many "sodium substituted" simply use potassium chloride rather than sodium chloride, it's a good place to look. So to answer your question: Yes, potassium chloride is edible. Yes, as stated a billion times before on this site, potassium chloride burns purple. Yes, you should be able to get some at your local grocery store. No, I, nor anyone else in the world, knows if it is soluable in kerosine in the store bought format. Therefore: NO, it is unsafe to dissolve anything in kerosine and then put it in your mouth because kerosine, itself, is toxic.
_________________________
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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#155177 - 13/09/02 06:13 PM
Re: coloured flames
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freelance bum
Registered: 03/09/01
Loc: Upstairs
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but people breathe kero anyway...
and the salts don't dissolve in kero but metho...
I have seen someone breathe Boric acid in metho. Yes it was cool but he wasn't looking too good afterwards. Absolutely not recommended.
Anywhere that sells aproduct that has an MSDS printed for it should be able to supply you with one. Find out what a MSDS before you try any of this stuff.
Some moderators seem to think that this subject has been covered but a link to a list of chemical names with no details on what they are and how to get them, how to make the fuel mix work, any more info so that people who want to give it a go have to spend weeks playing mad professor to get it to happen.
Maybe it's time for the info to be compiled and write an article
_________________________
UYI  OLDSKOOL
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#155178 - 18/09/02 12:56 AM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 13/03/02
Loc: Salem, Oregon USA
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quote:
Originally posted by NYC:
Ug... by doing a search on the "internet" I found that Potassium Chloride is present in many "salt substitutes" such as nusalt
Therefore it is sold in edible format as well. I do not know, nor does anyone else, if this format will dissolve in whatever fuel you want to dissovle it in.
NuSalt will NOT dissolve into kerosene, coleman fuel, or any other fuel I have found besides ethanol or methanol. I've experimented with it extensively, even taken a mortar and pestel to it to grind it into the finest of powders, and never had good coloration results with the flame. IMHO, nuSalt doesn't work.
~peace~
_________________________
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind - Mahatma Gandhi
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#155179 - 17/09/02 01:27 PM
Re: coloured flames
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member
Registered: 15/09/02
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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quote:
NuSalt will NOT dissolve into kerosene, coleman fuel, or any other fuel I have found besides ethanol or methanol. I've experimented with it extensively, even taken a mortar and pestel to it to grind it into the finest of powders, and never had good coloration results with the flame. IMHO, nuSalt doesn't work.
It doesnt dissolve WELL in other fuels.. I have used it on a few occasions with everclear, but, what good is that really.. after blowing 5-7 flames i had a nice buzz... which basically means to me, time to pack up and join the party as i wont blow flames while wasted, anymore of them and i wouldve been drunk.. the flame was a bluish purple, which was a nice change from the orange of paraffin but, at the same time... look at what it cost... couldve performed all night if i didnt try that mix.. on the plus side, it looks decent on torches if you mix it with denatured alcohol, and didnt give me the headache or cough associated with using boric acid in a closed air setting.
just my two cents, feel free to refund them ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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