Weighting your chains...

Greetings,

I created my first set of practice poi with some Nylon Strapping, Nylon twine, and two tennis balls with bolts through them. It occured to me that I should just make the twine into chains, so I would be used to spinning chains when I lit up the first time. The only chain I found handy at the time was a couple of 24' Choke collars. The chain ended up weighing in at 5 oz, and the tennis balls weighed 3 oz. Is this a normal ratio? I get some wierd chain action sometimes, and I would rather solve the hardware problem than learn to compensate in a manner that would limit me later. On the other hand, it might be my technique, and that would be nice to know as well. Any input would be appreciated.

J

I don't think it's just me, but I prefer having whatever's on the end of the chain to be heavier than the chain itself, so you don't get the weird chain action that you say you've been getting.

I've not had to weight tennis balls myself, but a variety of people here have mentioned taping up a stack of coins and wedging them inside the balls.
I'm assuming you could use anything for this and there isn't some special reason to use coins, although I imagine it would make it easier to balance the poi since you'd not have to measure anything except the number of coins you're using in each ball

The dynamic of the spin and how it feels depends upon the weight distribution. Use lighter chain. Dog chains are very heavy, so go buy something lighter and cheaper. As long as it's got a pretty comfy breaking strain it'll be fine (I think I usually aim for 30/40 pounds).

Every poi feels different. If you're really concerned with getting an accurate feel, I'd get a pair of fire poi and just practice unlit.

As for chain/poi ratio, it shouldn't affect you too much. I've spun with lit chains and no wick at all (fire chains)... it feels pretty much the same. I certainly don't think you'll get any bad habits by spinning like you are.

Heck, the biggest differences have got to be between glowstick/string and chain/wick... anything else is just a variation of those two...

That was my concern. I was using string, but I figured I could just make chain Poi, then attach tennis balls for practice and wicks when I am ready to burn. I know one other poi enthusiast (ok, I've met her twice), so I can probably find where to get the good gear from her.

wow, quick thought... Does the wierd twist in the links on Dog chains cause some spin problems? I am having trouble getting my left hand to spin parralel to the front plane of my body (butterfly style). Could that be hardware, or is it me?

[ 13 June 2002, 10:35: Message edited by: Boneyard ]

I agree with NYC...if you can do your moves, adjusting to new poi just takes a few minutes of practice.

As for the butterfly, both poi can't be *perfectly* parallel at the same time. It shouldn't be a harware problem...if you rotate your wrists properly as opposed to holding them static, I don't think the chains should kink. Given that you're having the problem with one hand and not the other, and given there's a 90% chance your left hand is your weak one, you may just need to practice some more. But try adding some swivels (available at hardware stores) if you're sure you're doing it right.

personally, i liked practicing with chains cause it got me used to more weight faster. i wouldn't weight balls while u are learning purely for the hurt effect.... but ur choice- it will make fire poi easier!

and i find everyone else's poi a breeze cause i practice with chains and so mine are a lot heavier.

just my $.02

I made my tennis ball poi with two strands of 75lb breaking strenght pike fishing trace.. crimped it all together and away I went.. but I've lost one now.. so I'll have to go and try to find some tennis balls if not buy some.. oh expences, expenses - that'll yeach me to get drunk and forget..

What about using cable? It's only $.11 a foot at the local hardware store, and is very light. Will the little hoo-yahs that you have to attach to the end hold the weight when one is spinning their poi at full speed? More to the point, will it hold up over time?

My roommate showed me the chain one his his friends uses. The hardware store uses it to hold the pens to the drawers in the hardware section, but doesn't stock it. Go figure

J

Cable's been discussed quite a bit here before. Yes, it is more than strong enough, even the skinny 1/16" stuff. It's a good idea to work a fishing swivel into one of the ends when you make loops on the ends, so wind-up can be released.

Cables do kink. This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, but eventually a strand may break at a kink, which (IMHO) is a deal-breaker. A kinked cable is harder to untwist when you get tangled, and winds up getting more kinked.

I actually went to home depot and found Nickel plated sash chain (I think that's it). I didn't like the splits on the end of each link, where they meet, but it's welded, and it's reated at 75 pounds pull, so I guess it'll do for now. I'll work with it a while before hooking wicks to it, though. Say, anyone know where to get wick material in the US? Any big chain stores or anything?

Places to buy wick? Depends on where you are. It's been discussed quite a bit before. Of course you can buy it from HoP too. I'm lucky, I've got a place right downtown (Dube) for my impulse kevlar buys.

And yeah, I don't really like cable.

I am a cable user. I started out with chains, and moved up to cable. Less tangles, better behaving, and safer for wraps.
1/16" is perfect. Those little sleeves make a safe and permanent connection. Hardwire your swivel in the loop when you make it.
Store them by hanging them on the wall with a weight (like a boot) attached to the end. This will staighten out any kinks that may be developing. I also transport them staight alongside my staffs in my golf club bag.
Kevlar? Most of us have to order it. You should learn how to make terrycloth poi. Cheaper and just as good for practice.
Good luck.

Maximus

Maximus, how do you make your cable? I made some yesterday and they largely tear the skin when I try wraps. I used 1/16th aircraft with crimped sleeves to make the loops. Are yours different?

That's how I make mine. Just be sure the cut end of the cable is slightly recessed within the sleeve, or else it will cut and scratch. I do leg wraps, bicep wraps and a throat/face wrap. I don't get any skin tears. Maybe it is your technique.
Are you pulling on the cable to get it to unwrap? Try slowing down and just let the poi bounce off or stall by itself.

Maximus

Strange... I find that cable, the few times I played with them, tangled much more than ball chain. I didn't feel safe with anything I could tie a knot in...

I'm ball chain all the way.

I'm all for ball chain too, but I thought it would be nice to have an alternative around...

Maximus, yours sound just like mine...I've even tucked the ends away inside the sleeve as you have. I think I pull when I do my wraps...I've now tried a few bouncy ones and they're much nicer. Thanks man.

Doesn't the sleeve melt when you burn?

No. The sleeves are made of solid aluminum or zinc plated copper. No melting but they do get red hot. Squash them about halfway down with a hammer.

Maximus

i've also seen some of the smaller dogchain break before. I would recommend examining what the chain is rated at. And remember that spinning an object creates more force on the chain. Cable kinks & can be knotted, and doesn't "twist" requiring a swivel. Ballchain has swivels at every point, and seem very reliable. I have not had a failure yet, however just due to wear and tear, would prolly recommend changing ANY kind of cable at least once a year. Nothing is fullproof...

plurr
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HA! The sash chain just broke on me tonight, after about 2 weeks. It's says 75 pounds, but I don't think it takes into acount multiple high-speed impacts. I guess it's back to the drawing board...

from a physics standpoint, i would mos def make the tennis ball/ wick heavier than the chain.

as for chain type, i use ball chain on one set and heavy gague toilet chain on another (go ahead, open the back an check it out). i believe the ball chain is superior for hand wraps especially, because it puts less stress on your fingers. aircraft cable bends and gets "kinky" after awhile, providing less flex and durability.

lemme STRESS THIS POINT, though:

**check yoself befo you wreck yoself!!!!**

before i spin my chains, lit or unlit, i inspect the chain, all of my fasteners, my handles, **everything** for wear and tear.

Isn't the toilet chain just a sash chain? I was happy with it for a while, and it's rated at 75 lbs, It's just that the welds are on the narrow end of the chain, and I really think that is not a good place for them to be. Like I said, mine might have broke due to too many collisions. I would try ball chain, but I'm not sure where to pick it up locally. I would order from HOP, but I'm just a working stiff, ya know?