Inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!

ach.. you lot are far too geeky for me... can someone just point me in the direction of cole's vidyo an i'll be on my way... i saw what you were doing last night dude but think i need to see it again (at least a few times) to grasp it properly...


an while we're at it...
a notcoleman 3 is a normal inverted weave but a notcoleman 5 has extra beats on the outside or inside? am i right or completely off target? as for crossed arm inversions i'm not sure i even want to know...

i have a question

it is here

im not to sure personally, i cant spin a weave like the one on the right in the picture, but i was doing something almost the same yesterday but bits of it came between my arms.

and dub a notcoleman 5 has the extra beats on the outside, i reckon

The one on the right is something arashi mentioned to me a while back but I can't get... it's basically turning the crossover point from in front of you down and then back up inside your arms so it's pointing the other way - the poi swap from left to right closest to you rather than at the furthest point away.

I think that this then gives you antispin for free, much like you get spinning BTB weaves.

yep thats what it is - but that isnt an inside weave??? the only reason i think it might be, is because i have no idea what an inside weave is other than a weave that gose inside to inside, and if you flatten the planes out so there is a big angle between them - you can see they are like inside planes... or they feel the same...

Not really sure what to call it - upside-down weave? I guess you could call it an inside weave though, it certainly stays between the arms.

Oli > The pisc is soooo nice , I thing if you cross your arms close to wrist, let them be how they are and try to twist em ,make circle, between your arms you found it. It like you put not just one hand inside, but both in cross- over. Hoe ptat helps


it's basically turning the crossover point from in front of you down and then back up inside your arms

Jeah, thas nice description how to learn inversions. Try it without Poi.(It s like you put crossed hand from one side inside,make a twist and out:)

REV >

inside weave has an outside carry.. or something...

Exactly where, isnt it just how you enter, tell us more

light,

:R

do a clockwise watermill. turn around and do a clockwise watermill. turn between the inside parts of a watermill clockwise and anticlockwise without going outside except to carry between the two inside planes. the poi always come up between your arms and your body, but during the transitions the poi go down away from your body (when spinning forwards). that's what i call an inside weave, anyway... if you let the poi come up buzzsaw you can do a barrel roll type transition between the two inside planes.

--ben

the best description I can give.. is to start with outside weaves...

start standing normal.. doing a normal weave...

turn your torso to face left, while you are spinning in the right side plane.. and turn to face right when you are spinning in the left side plane.. this is still a normal weave, but you are always spinning behind you.. it teaches you 1- the hand position and 2- the flip..

remember what I said about the left inside plane being the right outside plane on the left side of the body... well all you have to do is keep pulling the motion above tigheter and tighter until you cross sides.. then you end up with an inside weave.. like tenticle and I have been talking about.. it has a carry between the two sides because you can't have both your hands on the left side (to make an inside plane) and both hands on the right side (to make an inside plane) at the same time.. so there has to ba aperiod of crossover where its spinning in the right spot but your arms arent there to define it..

Hot damn, Rev, we're finally talking the same language! I understand and agree with all of that.

Another good way to learn inside transitions, once you know where inside is, is to do a ant- clockwise wall plane three beat behind you, and then pull the poi across to inside in front of you for another two beats, before going to outside in front of you. it gets you used to transitioning to the inside... it isn't a transition as such, the poi are still spinning in the same direction (as far as your hands are concerned) when you come to inside in front, then when you change to the outside beats you do the transtion you'd expect from a reverse five beat (or a reverse four beat watermill really), that is it happens on the reverse side of the body if the going to inside happens on the forwards side. Once you can exit and enter inside plane where a normal weave transition should happen, turning between them ain't so hard... once you get that thing rev said about the inside in front and the outside behind being eqivalent there's a ton of stuff you can already do that works inside too almost straight away...

--ben

i sort of skimmed some of that and it looked right. here's my answer even though it may be redundant cause i'm going to bed soon and i can't go back and check all that.
the drawing shows the crossovers fine... if the "outside" beats were included in the picture it would make it look like an "M."

yes you can do the inside weave as a watermill w/ crossovers up and that's how i explained it on spherculism as a wall plane inside weave but now we have an ezample of the version in side planes (did i ever transpose those sperc. explanations to this thread?)

Tenticle, Rev, Oli - Right, right, got it
Right,

inversions Mission OK
insides Mission OK
Atomics Mission OK

perfect , I feel this thread going to end with good resolution,
anyway Questions?

For me Construction/Helix (Math Helix picture ) still open,
but is is differenbt story...

thank you

love nad light,

:R

ok i just realized that me saying the drawing was right and the "m" thing will probably be misleading... it's true but not the simplest way to differentiate. there's a better way...

that being said i think i had an "eureka" moment after reading coleman's posts back on page 3 or something and i'll get back with a much better way to explain all this soon

thanks cole for being so smart

i didn't mean to be but okay

wallplane iversions and insides are slowly becoming apparent to me.

still can't do those bloody btb trinity ww with insidey-buzzsaw type bits on both sides - i think it might be because i have big armpits...


cole. x

after my little eureka i think i see that soon they will make a lot more sense to you than they do to me...

once again our different way sof seeing things and how they translate in to language becomes both an obstacle and a way to expand the mind upon understanding.

oops i have to wake up to work in 105 degree heat in 2 hours guess i should go to sleep i'll get back to this soon

the insides all have an same side/leading thing, inversions have an opp side/leading thing, it's a little more complicated than that but more soon

mwahahaha. the turning watermill inside weave i mentioned earlier is cross handed...

--ben

yeah it's not quite that cut and dry, but there is an aspect of that to it... there's a few subdivisions that act differently... different versions of each entrance for each crossover position. like there's different kinds of inversions, there's different kinds of insides... i'm sure by the end of the thursday b4 uberpoi we'll have it diagrammed and filmed :rollsmiley:

the inside weave acts just like a corkscrew.. when you do the sideplane insides you can make them odd beat but they are naturally even beat.. because they occur in the midpoint.. so the cross hand isnt cross in that respect.. look at wallplanes done on the side.. like in the right front and the right rear wallplanes.. that is corss handed because the left hand is on its side in the front and crossed in the back... so when you do something in the middle.. (like an inside weave) its evenhanded.. just with a shorter arm from the one that's cross a point that's we're not using(move wise ) and thus not crosshanded.. the flip is like going from a bottom cork to a bottom of a cork.. to boot insides even work just like my evenhanded lead diagram..

remember: you need pretty much both arms to make insides.. even when only one poi is inside... (keep in mind what I refer to as insides doesnt include the half-insides we use to make buzzsaws. ) so sinec both arms are there.. its even handed..

no. i really am going to have to demonstrate this to someone before i get understood, i can see, as i can't think of any simpler way to explain it.

--ben

lol.. we're doing the same thing.. we just arent' seeing the same thing.. I guess the most important thing to start with is how you are getting a crosshanded watermill... because turning between watermills is still just two watermills.. if you could point me i that direction, we might not have to wait..

moves that stay clockwise or anti clockwise with respect to the direction perpendicular to your shoulders are even handed. any move where you rotate so that one side of the move is clockwise and the other anticlockwise with respect to this direction is cross handed. thus, windmills, wall plane weaves, watermills in front of you, corks done windmill style are all even handed. turning windmills, wheel plane weaves, wheel plane insides, corks done by leaning one way then the other, are all cross handed.
turning between just the inside beats of a 2bt clockwise watermill and just the inside beats of an anticlockwise 2bt watermill is exactly the same as turning between a outside clockwise 2bt and an outside anti clockwise 2bt and getting an outside 3bt. which is how you get a normal wheel plane 3bt weave.
turning between anti clockwise and clockwise changes which hand is more forward/top/outside (depending on how you look at it) and as such acts like one degree of twist of the arms by changing the lead hand.
when you add two wheel plane 2bts together and get a 3, it is the turn that is swapping the lead. if you have no turn, such as in a wall plane weave, you only have one 2bt to play with and so there are two different ways to make a 3, depending on whether you swap the lead in front of you or behind. and when you add these two ways of doing the 3 together, you get a 4bt. Just like you'd expect from a windmill or watermill.
So i get my 3bt cross handed watermill the same way i get my 3bt cross handed weave.

--Ben

I see what you mean.. the inside weave is crosshanded.. I wanted to say it was the exception but all my insides were evenhanded.. so I guess insides are.. but the inside weave isnt..
sorry..

now tell me that the side plane inside 5 beat spider (aka 2nd degree inside) isn't the funnest move ever

They're bloody difficult is what they are! :P

bah... the 6bt insides are what I think its funny... makes me laugh when I do it.. I don't know why.. I think its because muscle memory is telling my brain how goofy I look..

to me the 4 and 5bts feel all yummy.. one lets you roll from ones side to the other and the other just kind bouces it there and back.. like a good vodka it mixes with almost anything.. flowers, reels, pirouttes, whatever.. and then add frosty inversion topping and you get patterns that get thes fluid rolling patterns that I can only describe as WOOOSH.. as they roll by..


but mentioning the 6bt and inversions.. 3rd degree inversions are frickin' hard.. any advice you can give on those arashi? because I started by doing what I could and letting the tanlge roll out.. and I'm slowy moving the tanlge further down the string until hopefully it all rolls through kinda isolated, but not tanlged during the end.. do I need to do it like a 3bt inversion, or should I just be trying to keep my arm hooked so it exits with the extra twist at the wrists?

it's almost like a throw. you have to throw the wick it so it arcs through the inversion while your hands are crooked, then let it arc through, then unroll your arms right after the follwoing wick is thrown

Its like semi-iso. I dont do that anymore tho, i prefer letting them flow through.

Those 5bt's are funny though, they keep getting tangled in interesting positions

And Cole, i didn't know you could play guitar.