Inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!

Well, after a few mins practice I think Im on to something (not saying its new cuz I still have yet to read the thread). I can do the inside beats of the non-tangled air wrap but end up getting my poi caught on my arm on the way out. I did, however, just learn an easy way into straight jackets Hopefully tomorrow Ill figure out how to get out of the air wrap thing... as well as read the previous posts of this thread

Thanks for the inspiration Arashi

Written by:

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the center point of rotation is the opposite of an isolation, which there is no word for but i've been calling a longarm. it's really a miniature longarm with no actual arm involved,

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I'm wondering about this. I was playing with this stuff last night and was, for about 2 minutes convinced that I had spun an isolated weave with the poi spinning forward and my hands isolating backwards.

I tried to go back to what I'd originally been working on (isolated anti-spin weave). When I went back to this it would only stall when I moved my hands backwards and figured I was stoned and gettting confused. I was thinking last night in bed ( ) that if my hand circles where bigger than than the poi circles then it should've isolated like long arms the opposite way as the poi spins and maybe I wasn't crazy after all. I should've got out of bed tto check...

Does this make any sense to anyone? Is this the same thing you're talking about regarding long arm Arashi.

i think deepsoul sheep that you mean something else, isolation and using the slack times during the isolation to move your hands against the grain to another place and starting up the isolaton again. perhaps? is that what you guys mean by anti spin? if so you must be drinking lots of coffee cause that's fast work. if so then then yes anti spin is useful for bfly-esque inversions, but that isn't what i thought anti spin was. you would have to isolate the anti spin if you want an inverted bfly weave, but i still don't think the barrel roll would happen, the wick would just float under your arms. but that doesn't seem like anti spin, that's just floating inversions around. man that makes no sense.
the longarm i meant is much more basic. it's just like a longarm but maybe we could change the name to "concentric" cause all your doing is describing a circle with your fingertips that is smaller than the wick circle, but at the same times, 12:00 and 12:00, not opposite timing like the isolation 12:00 and 6:00,

i get ya, but if you are spinng the notcoleman5 the same way i do, the inverted beat should be leading (i.e. isolated for the cross arm inversion around the other arm).

you can do the move without isolations and use the concentric type effect to extend the radius of the poi and move your hand away from the centre of rotation (which essentially is the other arm/wrist).

but as spiral described, you can do this for a notbarrelroll too, its just quite fast and the timing is tricky.

yeah, nice one

ascii diagrams do help!

Heheh, sometimes

And yeah, "concentric" is definitely a better way to describe it I reckon. Longarm is a bit too close to straightarm and other such thingies

ok guys.. I ahve jsuit a few quick comments.. as always becaus I feel I should psot some other stuff.. and then come back to this with frsh thought..

1) this is probably my complete newb ingorance.. BUT I thought the inverted (buzzsaw) weave.. let me rephrase that.. what was deomnstrated to me as a buzzsaw weave (slightly isolated although I loathe to call it that since its more of using the curvature of a spiral of the poi entering sort of a free fall befroe the barrel roll (which again I'm sorry for reusing that term as well)) I think this is somewhat what arashi meant with the inverted weave. and I thought the nc5 was different because it only had one poi in the middle..
now with that in mind.. the isolation allows one to sprial it around the arm when doing the 'roll' motion.. thus alloing the wrsit of one arm to go -as far as- the elbow of the other.. if you don't isoalte they cross a the wrists and the wrist roll around each other.. or you can keep pulling your hands even further aprat and get alas a tangled buzzsaw.. (I'm using that erm since hyperloop for some has other connotations and I'm trying to not be confusing.. succeding at that is left to interpretation) but essentially all the same thing..

2) the antispin stuff (nipS for short).. I'm starting a fresh thread of just the anti basics.. because a nips 2bt weave vs a regular two beat weave are vir5tually identical save the hands.. and the butterfly is the same way.. you dont' really notice the big difference until you apply it to more complex ptterns.. ie. the 4bt ttn and the 3 and 5bt weaves.. so I have diagramed those out and will cut that post from spherc... so please look towards that as a reference on the anti things.. I think they help because and spiral maybe you can back me on theis.. the left side hand motions of the nisp weave are like the right side motions of what I discuss point 1 above..

3) I ahve already forgotten point 3.. but let me cut those posts over to hop..

EDIT: I JUST REREAD THIS POST AND IT IS EVIL. I TOTALLY PUT THE WRONG TERMINLIOGY IN THIS POST. EVERYWHERE THERE IS NOW A * PLEASE INSERT THE WORD INSIDE INSTEAD OF INVERTED. PROBLEM IS, THAT MAKES IT MORE CONFUSING AND IT WON'T MAKE SENSE UNLESS YOU KNOW THE DISTINCTION. SORRY. it may help to just skip this post...

brushes off dust
sage out of town, less rehearsals for me, so i have a little time to geek out.

anyone tried crossarms to crossarm inversions yet? isolate both poi under and over the arms before going into a full inversion (full meaning arms as the center point) creates a cool cascade effect, with the arms slowly coming together and separating. so try normal crossarm(crosser/straightjacket?), isolated *inversions* with arms one over the other, then full crossarm inversion, then the other-forearm-on-top isolated *inversions*, to outside. IOW the left side(right poi) would go: crossarm out on the left side, 2. *inversion* under the left forearm, inversion, *inversion* over the left forearm, crosser to right side. and the left poi does the vice versa. if you start doubling up the isolated inversions you can create a very spiffy pattern in the air. does that make sense?

did anybody get to play with butterfly inversions yet? i'd love to know if there's a way to do a full inversion bfly without a stall or wrap. i have some ideas, i'm going to play with it tonight. yes, i'm actually going to play with my chains, it's been a while!

we've been talking about butterfly inversions on and off at spherc.. basically have uncrossed inversions.. but not the crossed ones yet.. a matter of time I think.. I managed to bounce into and out of a butterfly straight jacket.. or close to it.. basically it made my arms tangle liek the sj without actually forming one.. its all in getting the path of the poi to change every slightly so that they can make their arcs.. without tangling.. hella arm bending though..


now a questiion... crossarm? you put crosser/straight jacket... are they crossed.. or they done SJ style where they are tanlged (knotted)...

whoops scratch that i guess i mean just "crossers". don't know what a straightjacket means. that's was why the "?" was there.

straightjacket is an inverted crosser, in my way of thinking. you can get into it by inverting a weave on one side, and following the poi with your hands like you would with a buzzsaw weave, but then not bringing the trailing poi through the gap between your arms, and turning around the other way instead. (same as with a normal one, where the lead poi crosses and instead of following it with the trailing one, you leave it where it is and turn around.)
nomal crosser to straight jacket is an ugly, ugly move. there are too many bits that need to be kind of isolated but not quite to fit, so i can only do it spinning really slowly, which means there's hardly any momentum left for the straight jacket part, which means i can't do the half isolation things to get out again properly, let alone back into crosser...
as for butterfly crossers, i havn't worked out a sensible way to do them yet. i can do crossed arms butterfly in front to crossed arms butterfly bth, but i cant do a bfly weave style version.

-ben

if you can inverted weave... you can move in and out of straight jackets with ease... just use the same movement that you use to isolate a buzzsaw weave, and pull your arms tight as you turn.. hooks right in..

as for entering them from a crosser.. it really depends on where that crosser is located... some are easier then others.. but if you can spin inside, (like pulling inside rather then outside like on a ttn for example) then you should have no problem moving between most of the upper body crossers.. even works well fro getting from SJ to SJ..

that's just my take..

just now getting more heavy into the inverted butterfly stuff.. so I'll get back on that one when I've gotten a bit better.. I've kinda posted my bit on that already..

and on the butterfly crossers... I get into them just like I get into normal crossers.. I use the ttn motion and to disjunct the poi.. like from a 4bt ttn... take the right over the left... then push it back to the rear right plane.. simple enough... now if yo do it with the ttn on the right side plane.. like from a bf weave.. it goes straight into a crosser.. with the left arm in the right arm pit.. and the right arm btb left side.. with varations galore.. the coming out is a bit tricky for me sometimes though since bf isn't my strong point..

arashi- never heard it called crossarm before.. didn't know what you meant.. I've been playing with weaving between my crossers I guess is how you put it.. rather then holding them I'm just kinda using all the different ways of spinning to twist, pull, and push the poi wherever I can make them go..


quick question though... doesn inverting a corser put you into a SJ? or do the hand over hand roll.. depending on the hand leading?

ummm... just curious... what plane is the straightjacket IN? is it a ("crosser") crossarm btb? or is it just a three beat inversion infinite? telling me how to get INTO it doesn't tell me what it is... i'm still not sure what it is and a search was inconclusive. oh wait now you say it is "tangled" too? i'm afraid i missed out on the SJ talk.

Its EXACTLY the same as a cross. Its just that they are using a more tech way of :

A) Crossing their arms

B) Doing mostly b-fly variations.

There was a clip on this raver site somewhere...ill see iv i can find it

Example Cross your arms "indian" style, and thats what they are doing but using poi at the same. There are also btb and bth.

More of a *contortionist* move than anything alse.

So to recap..same as a cross just a different name.

oh.
i still didn't get to play. went dancing to some GOOD dancehall reggae hip-hop and today went to a movie about burning man.

still i wonder if there's a way to go into the butterfly inversion from a crossarm that's got a counter directional rotation so that the "inverted beats" are an unwinding bfly. like a cat's cradle. maybe a crossarm inversion, that enters your arms as they are crossed twice, by intersecting the wicks-with isolations-at the center of your arms, and exits with them undoing the knot usually created by bfly inversions. i believe tilted conicals would have to come in play somehow for an antigravity effect. and i'm thinking 7 beat butterfly position may be involved in other ways too.

ok..
#1- the sj... a tangled buzzsaw imagine your arms doign what the the tanlge does... in other words they are folded... right arm under left hand, over left forearm, and under left bicep... left arm over right hand ,under right forearm, and over right bicep.. now that your arms are tangled up like that you can weave like a crosser.. (each poi on opposite side.. you know the drill)its a crosser.. but more complicated.. a crosser simply crosses sides.. this actually knots the arms..

#2 this is way premature.. because I havent had plenty of time to work out any kinks if there are any.. and It'll be a few days before I get a chance ot make a clip but I think.. key word think.. I found a crossed inverted bf weave.. its based on the clip in my split threading thread.. starting with whats in that clip:
the right poi comes over the left arm and comes up in the chest plane (inner), as the left comes inside (buzzsaw) and over the right arm turn your body 90 degrees.. this puts the left coming up in the buzzsaw (rather then inner [chest] plane) and it puts the right also coming into the buzzsaw (and thus the crossed part of the inverted weave..) you then turn another 90 degrees.. the left poi spins a beat outside while the right poi does a beat inside... at this poin both poi should be in the wallplane ready to do a rev ttn or rev split thread, before going back the other way..

now.. this has 4 buzzsaw swings back to back.. Left buzzsaw (splithtread) right and left (?)buzzsaw (inverted weave) and then the right buzzsaw (splitthread?)

If you check the split thread clip and description, there should be now problem follwing what I'm trying to say... otherwise it might be a little sketchy.. so I'm sorry on that..

edit: ok.. I don't think I typed this out right at all.. and I'm sorry but I have no consistency in it yet.. I think it does more of a left inside right inside right inside.. (left inside as part of the splitthread, right inside crossed inverted, right inside part of rev split thread.. ) I don't know.. when I do though I'll post.. at least this can give people something to play with.. myabe you guys can figure it out..

ok I'm making a clip of a crossed inverted bf weave..

not like I described above.. I found a much simpler way...

basically..
one clip.. will have the move I based it on.. whihc is a ttn of sorts.. from a forward butterfly, birng the right over the left armand up in the buzzsaw.. if you isolate it a little. you can swing the left poi through the buzzsaw and over the right.

bringing the left through the buzzsaw part after the right lets the arms cross but then uncross without stalling,stopping, wrapping, etc.. its basicalyl like bouncing a butterfly to an inverted(?) [between the elbows] butterfly and back, done at a timing that makes the transition pass easier (closer to split time..)

anyway... that was the base..

the second clip I'm making.. shows a forward butterfly on my right.. I then take the right over the left arm and up in the buzzsaw... the left poi passes through the buzzsaw (barely) so that they don't tangle.. into a rev butterfly on the left..

now.. to get the thing in the first clip to apply well enough in the second clip (given the limited space between the elbows and what not.. ) I lean a litte so that my rightt arm is almost parallel with the left arm under it.. they arent' parallel, but practically next to each other with the right over the left.. this gives a little more clearance to get the left poi to pass between the arms enough to not tanlge with the right poi..

I know that's hard to follow from text.. but my post before this..well can be scratched.. those are much harder then this.. I'll get these two clips hosted as soon as I can..