Coloured flames and toxicity

also, does anyone know if kerosene is more toxic than low odour or is it the other way round? cause I was thinking since additives to the chemicals make it that much more toxic (i.e. odour-controlling additives and additives that change the colour or whatever) - wouldn't low odour kero have more stuff packed into than average kero?

or does it come down to basically just where you get it from cause its all such a different mix all over the place?

www.geocities.com/firepoi ?

this has a good fuel guide (if I remember rightly).

also, I am planning to use boric acid to colour my flame green/blue and I thought this was pretty non-toxic. I am absolutely not a chemist, though!

good luck.

red/orange [ calcium ]

purple [ potassium ]

intense yellow [ table salt ]

blue [ mineral turpentine }

green ( copper sulfate ]

aqua [ chloride ]

I know that they are not non-toxic but that doesn't mean they are not fun...

good luck finding non-toxic ones or suppliers

Anyway, here's another list of fun goodies to think about....I'll try and find out a wee bit more from some real life chemists.

Sodium: golden-yellow
Potassium: violet (lilac)
Lithium: carmine-red
Calcium: red-orange
Strontium: crimson
Barium, molybdenum: yellow-green
Borates, copper (except halides), thallium: green
Lead, arsenic, antimony, bismuth, copper: blue
Copper halides or other copper salts moistened with hydrochloric acid: blue-green
Strontium: scarlet

have you read the redox sheet on boric acid??

i was all set to head out and get some (*loves* green and blue!) but now i'm sufficiently scared!

ykat - yeah I read the Boric Acid info and freaked out too - which was why I posted my original message.

Boric acid is somehow ok cause it is only used for cockroach killing? Doesn't that say enough by itself, cockroaches survive a-bombs!
my bf has used copper sulphate i think - but he said it had all the warnings similar to boric acid all over it. Subsequently he didn't use it often or since then.

As far as I can tell Boric acid is pretty safe. Being in the "if you eat enough of it you can die" category. Otherwise exposure to small amounts is pretty safe.

I think the following are pretty safe.

Table Salt --> Yellow.
Calcium Cloride --> Orange.
Boric Acide --> Green/Yellow.

Other things to think about.

You can't color parrafin flames because the orange 'black body' radiation from the soot in the flame swamps any other color.

You have to get the metal ion into the flame. The problem being is that the flame is burning vapor and the salt is disovled in the _liquid_.

i was thinking of the little colored strobe thingies...but i think this equates to trying to poi with flares...seems a bad idea to hit yourself with something that burns so hot...

next thought was smoke in the daytime...maybe rigging up different colors or such...

hmm...just random thoughts..

Seems to be relativly safe as per MSDS, except it says that "Forms sensitive explosive mixtures with ... sulphur". Isn't that what gives kero the smoke/smell? Anyway, there's probably not enough sulpher in there all the same...

I remember we used to burn this stuff over bunsens in science class, don't think it's extremly toxic, but long term effects... who knows.

You may want to call some of the chemistry suppliers and pull the whole "Hi I'm a chemistry teacher and I'd like a catelog..." As most of them have the warnings listed for each of the chemicals as well as the prices and such...

I looked up the toxicity of both in the Merck Index and found that Boric Acid is pretty bad IF you eat it. Death has been reported in adults from injesting doses from 5-20 g. On the other hand, I didn't see much in the way on warnings from breathing small amounts of it.

Kerosine (and other fuels) have considerable warnings about inhalation (Headache, drowsyness, coma.)

If you're really worried about toxic chemicals, you picked the wrong hobby.

Seriousely, I was thinking of colored flames the other day, and the chemists are right, most of that stuff is some preaty wicked stuff. But....a good quality GAS MASK should filter out most of the nasties. Being a biologist and chemistry teach myself, I would not suggest using the vast majority of chemicaly available, especialy since inhaling the fumes is a VERY good way to absorb the stuff into your system. You can buy curent issue military surplus gas masks (Isreali, german, etc) for about ten dollars (USA) through the mail, on the net, etc. and the top quality ones run about $50-200.
Realy guys, even some of those gas masks that just cover the mouth and nose would work. Maybe we should all start using masks for regular flame twirling too. It might look funny, but isn't your health worth it?

And on another note, it is a good idea for us all to be on antioxidant vitamines like vitamins C, E, A, and the B vitamines, and folic acid (folate). Actuall a good multivitamine (with complete minerals too) would be great, with a little extra vitamin C of course. You see, most of the danger from burning hyrdrocarbon fuels comes from the carcinogenic (cancer causing) and mutinogenic (mutation causing) chemicals. Suplying your body with the proper nutrients will reduce the risk of getting cancer by an order of magnitude. some forms of cancer can be reversed with the right nutrients (the opposite phylosophy is chemotherapy) both work, but the nutrient method relies on strengthening the bodies immune system. In fact many doctors belive there are mutated cells forming in the body every day, but our immune systems deal with them no problemo.

Well, I didn't mean to go off like that. It is just that natural healing and homeopathic medicine is a hobie of mine.
no such thing as safe sex, just safer sex right?
No such thing as safe twirling, just safer twirling. Right?

I've been thinking about doing something like this for a gig that the Wick Effect have coming up. I'm pregnant and have been told by my doctor and mrmo_nyc - the home of poi's resident chemist, not to play with fire until after the baby is born. If I used a gas mask while performing I might be able to get away with it!

Dont worry mrmo, I wouldn't make a habit of it!

Glad to hear about the good news Finn! congradulations. and, yea, don't make a habit out of twirling fire while pregnant...

Peace Love Fire