jeremy
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Member #1861
Reged: 15/04/02
Loc: australia
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has anyone had experience with mixing potassium permanganate and kero??? ive read a few msds'and i think it will be ok but if anyone has any input im listening!
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Mark P
Liscensed to Sell Intoxicating Liquors
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Loc: Bath, England
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05/09/02 06:22 AM
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Hi jeremy,
This has been discussed in quite a lot of detail in previous posts.
Here is how to do a search :
Click on Technical Discussion.
Under the button that says 'New Post' click search.
In 'Search Word' box put 'coloured'
and in 'Search In' box put 'Title Only'
Then you should see a list of 9 topics that discuss flame colouration ![[Big Grin]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif)
Hope this helps,
Mark P
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jeremy
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05/09/02 01:30 PM
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thanx but i was actually wanting to know if anyone had experience with these to chemicals specifically but thankyou for your input, some of those posts helped anyway! quote:
Originally posted by Mark P:
Hi jeremy,
This has been discussed in quite a lot of detail in previous posts.
Here is how to do a search :
Click on Technical Discussion.
Under the button that says 'New Post' click search.
In 'Search Word' box put 'coloured'
and in 'Search In' box put 'Title Only'
Then you should see a list of 9 topics that discuss flame colouration
Hope this helps,
Mark P
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Mark P
Liscensed to Sell Intoxicating Liquors
Member #763
Reged: 26/10/01
Loc: Bath, England
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06/09/02 01:42 AM
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Personal experience with Chemicals :
I have tried using Lithium Chloride, Boric Acid and Strontium Nitrate for flame colourations.
The best results were from Boric acid runs (green flames) but the strength of the flames was fairly weak ![[Frown]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif)
The main problem with using these salts for colouration of flames is that they wont dissolve in kero/paraffin you have to use either ethanol or methylated spirits. These fuels produce a flame that is a lot weaker than that produced by kero/paraffin and therefore it dosent look nearly as good.
Here is a link to a couple of Boric Acid pictures and you can see what I mean : Boric Acid Boric Acid and Paraffin soaked doubles so that you can make a comparism
Another thing about Boric Acid is that every time we have used it we have all ended up with nasty coughs so we only use it for special occasions now ![[Razz]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif)
Hope this helps
Mark P
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jeremy
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06/09/02 05:28 PM
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thanks mark! i will let you know how it goes quote:
Originally posted by Mark P:
Personal experience with Chemicals :
I have tried using Lithium Chloride, Boric Acid and Strontium Nitrate for flame colourations.
The best results were from Boric acid runs (green flames) but the strength of the flames was fairly weak
The main problem with using these salts for colouration of flames is that they wont dissolve in kero/paraffin you have to use either ethanol or methylated spirits. These fuels produce a flame that is a lot weaker than that produced by kero/paraffin and therefore it dosent look nearly as good.
Here is a link to a couple of Boric Acid pictures and you can see what I mean : Boric Acid Boric Acid and Paraffin soaked doubles so that you can make a comparism
Another thing about Boric Acid is that every time we have used it we have all ended up with nasty coughs so we only use it for special occasions now
Hope this helps
Mark P
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glowshow
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Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
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06/09/02 07:06 PM
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Send a Personal Message to Supafly off this board. He has experimented with everything possible involving colored flames. I believe he said that the Potassium Permanganate sucked. It didn't show up very good or something along those lines. Might want to ask him, though. I do know that you will hae to use denatured alcohol to dissolve it, though.
--------------------
FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)
What do you want to be when you grow up?
I want to be a kid again!
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
~~~J~~~
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Ender
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06/09/02 07:14 PM
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are any of those chemicals safe to have in your mouth?
I don't do fire poi nor do i breath fire, but I imagine it would be interesting to shoot out a green flame while still using the normal bright fire for your poi.
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NYC
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Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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07/09/02 01:20 AM
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Not only aren't the additives good to put in your mouth. But neither are any of the fuels that you'd use to get the additives to show that color.
Bad idea.
--------------------
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Ender
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07/09/02 05:55 AM
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ok then completely ignore my last post ;D
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Bram....
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12/09/02 06:57 AM
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What I want to know is ne safe chemicals that will properly mix with kero/parrifin for breathing. Some depressent that is hard to get will dissolve in kero and gives a purple flame but i don't know what it is called
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You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
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flash fire
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12/09/02 11:03 AM
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Lithium.
--------------------
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
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Bram....
member
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14/09/02 03:42 AM
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NO it isn't lithium
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You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
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Mark P
Liscensed to Sell Intoxicating Liquors
Member #763
Reged: 26/10/01
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14/09/02 04:01 AM
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<puts on dress to get into Theater mode>
"Oh Yes it IS!"
No I was only joking I would be careful using any inorganic salts to colour flames for breathing, you need to check out the MSDS safety sheets as most of them are dangerous.
I know for a fact that Lithiun Chloride is a strong anti depressant type drug and when it is in tablets it will be in much lower concentrations than you need to colour a flame. The other chemical I use to colour flames is boric acid which is coincidently used as rat poision - am I going to put that inmy mouth? - Am I *$%£! - It is bad enough when you are spinning with wicks that have been saoked in it, it seems to give a nasty cough.
Oh well that is my 2 peneth worth and I highly recomend you find out FULL information on anything that you are going to use.
P ![[Roll smile]](/ubbthreads/graemlins/ubbrollimages/icons/smile.gif) Play safe people
BTW : someone was talking about using potassium permangenate to colour flames earlier if it does work which I dont think it will have a second thought - if you get KMnO4 on any of your clothes it is gauranteed to stain, as is the same for skin and it will make a mess around.
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Bram....
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14/09/02 07:11 AM
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Where is our mad scientist when we need him?
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You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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NYC
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Member #552
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14/09/02 09:11 AM
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Lithium is a depressant and hard to get but gives a nice red flame as has been discussed eighty bafriggin zillion times.
Potassium burns purple as stated in the article on THIS website.
This HAS been discussed. The colors of the metals NEVER changes. Here is the section of the article...
*****
Boric acid, which gives a green/blue flame. This is sold in pharmacies in powdered form as it has antiseptic properties.
Lithium chloride, which gives a nice red flame. Tricky to get as it's an anti-depressant.
Copper chloride, which gives a good green/blue flame.
Indium, expensive and hard to find, gives a deep violet.
Other which are theoretically possible, but might not give such good results are:
Strontium compounds - red.
Calcium compounds - orangy-red.
Barium compounds - green.
Potassium chloride - a purple flame.
White gas (liquid gas e.g. Colemans camping fluid) - a white flame.
Dry gas (as above) - a blue flame.
*****
The only thing that burns purple would be a potassium compound. This has all been covered. Potassium (Anything) should burn purple. I use potassium nitrate or chloride. It burns purple. I burn it in my class. I have burned it. My students burn it. We all agree that it looks purple.
This is getting old.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Bram....
member
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14/09/02 09:26 AM
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But is any form of it safe to put in your mouth
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You. Its whats for dinner!
As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.
The wave crashing on the beach
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NYC
Newbie Wrangler
Member #552
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Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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14/09/02 10:10 AM
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Ug... by doing a search on the "internet" I found that Potassium Chloride is present in many "salt substitutes" such as nusalt
Therefore it is sold in edible format as well. I do not know, nor does anyone else, if this format will dissolve in whatever fuel you want to dissovle it in.
Since many "sodium substituted" simply use potassium chloride rather than sodium chloride, it's a good place to look.
So to answer your question: Yes, potassium chloride is edible. Yes, as stated a billion times before on this site, potassium chloride burns purple. Yes, you should be able to get some at your local grocery store. No, I, nor anyone else in the world, knows if it is soluable in kerosine in the store bought format.
Therefore: NO, it is unsafe to dissolve anything in kerosine and then put it in your mouth because kerosine, itself, is toxic.
--------------------
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Yes, let's go.
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audax
freelance bum
Member #582
Reged: 03/09/01
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13/09/02 06:13 PM
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but people breathe kero anyway...
and the salts don't dissolve in kero but metho...
I have seen someone breathe Boric acid in metho. Yes it was cool but he wasn't looking too good afterwards. Absolutely not recommended.
Anywhere that sells aproduct that has an MSDS printed for it should be able to supply you with one. Find out what a MSDS before you try any of this stuff.
Some moderators seem to think that this subject has been covered but a link to a list of chemical names with no details on what they are and how to get them, how to make the fuel mix work, any more info so that people who want to give it a go have to spend weeks playing mad professor to get it to happen.
Maybe it's time for the info to be compiled and write an article
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UYI  OLDSKOOL
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Tracered
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18/09/02 12:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NYC:
Ug... by doing a search on the "internet" I found that Potassium Chloride is present in many "salt substitutes" such as nusalt
Therefore it is sold in edible format as well. I do not know, nor does anyone else, if this format will dissolve in whatever fuel you want to dissovle it in.
NuSalt will NOT dissolve into kerosene, coleman fuel, or any other fuel I have found besides ethanol or methanol. I've experimented with it extensively, even taken a mortar and pestel to it to grind it into the finest of powders, and never had good coloration results with the flame. IMHO, nuSalt doesn't work.
~peace~
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An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind - Mahatma Gandhi
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trintek
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17/09/02 01:27 PM
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quote:
NuSalt will NOT dissolve into kerosene, coleman fuel, or any other fuel I have found besides ethanol or methanol. I've experimented with it extensively, even taken a mortar and pestel to it to grind it into the finest of powders, and never had good coloration results with the flame. IMHO, nuSalt doesn't work.
It doesnt dissolve WELL in other fuels.. I have used it on a few occasions with everclear, but, what good is that really.. after blowing 5-7 flames i had a nice buzz... which basically means to me, time to pack up and join the party as i wont blow flames while wasted, anymore of them and i wouldve been drunk.. the flame was a bluish purple, which was a nice change from the orange of paraffin but, at the same time... look at what it cost... couldve performed all night if i didnt try that mix.. on the plus side, it looks decent on torches if you mix it with denatured alcohol, and didnt give me the headache or cough associated with using boric acid in a closed air setting.
just my two cents, feel free to refund them ![[Wink]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif)
--------------------
We bleed the same blood, We cry the same tears, We have the same fears, We pass the same years, We see the same stars, Under the same skies, We pass the same time, We all live and die
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Supafly
TNT
Member #248
Reged: 27/04/01
Loc: Charlotte, NC
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18/09/02 08:54 AM
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This site sells all sorts of chemical additives.
http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp
Please, visit the articles forum and read up on safety tips, colour changes, and chemical properties before proceeding. Here is the link:
http://www.skylighter.com/skylighter_info_pages/articles.asp
I am in no way affiliated with this site or trying to promote or endorse their products. This just happens to be the place I use in the U.S. There are probably plenty of other places in other countries that you can use too.
Also, please be careful if you do end up using these additives. I've used them in performances at clubs before with no problems. Please, as always, take the proper safety precautions when using. Enjoy!
--------------------
Fear the evil monkey!
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NYC
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Member #552
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Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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19/09/02 12:11 AM
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Good stuff Supafly. Dang, I'd love to see your show. ![[Smile]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif)
It's nice to see people who've actually used this stuff posting. Good stuff kids.
Explosives shipped anywhere in the US... Hrmm... how does that somehow NOT sound like a good idea.
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Supafly
TNT
Member #248
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Loc: Charlotte, NC
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19/09/02 02:27 AM
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Thanks NYC. Yeah, I was kind of worried about posting that site due to the fact that some not-so-smart person might blow themselves up. But then again, one can get hurt just crossing the street nowadays. If any of you would like to try something really cool, buy some Titanium Flakes and roll your wicks in it. Titanium Flakes are used in fireworks to create the crackling bright white sparks. You get instant sparkly poi that lasts for several minutes and once it burns off, your wicks are still burning full flame. Big advantage over steel wool. The sparks only shoot out for about two feet though so it isn't as spectacular as steel wool. I've used that at spinning at clubs before too.
My favorite is still Lithium Chloride though. I like the pretty red color it gives. Boric acid is just too weak to be impressive. Oh, and I wouldn't recommend using any of these chemicals on your Kevlar wicks as they tend to dry them out quickly and make them rot faster. I only use them on cheap towel wicks that I throw away after two or three burns.
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Fear the evil monkey!
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audax
freelance bum
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27/09/02 08:08 PM
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Supafly, do you meen to say you've burned Lithium Chloride with twirling apparatus? because all these theoretical ideas that chemicals burn colours in science classrooms is getting tiring. The suggestion that Barium compounds gives a nice green colour is alarming because some of them are explosive/poisonous or both. Some release toxic gases when burnt. I think that pointing out Barium compounds as a possible fuel colourant is irresponsible to the same degree as saying that  Fire Breathing is cool, so just give it a try.
Nusalt doesn't work for you because it's 50/50 Sodium Chloride and Potassium Chloride. So you have two potential colourants working against each other in the fuel. None of these additives work in Kero/Paraffin because they already have additives that make the flame bright and easy to see. Some Metho won't work because it's only 95% and the last 5% are denaturants which are probably inhibiting colour action. Seems to me that 100% Metho with 100% chemical salt additive on a clean wick unexposed to other fuels or chemicals is the only way these fuels will give a colour. Then there is the fact that some of these chemicals aren't soluble, or just not in Metho. And has anyone ever got any other chemical than Boric Acid to work? Maybe only Acids work in this.
More as I work it out. Comments welcome from all
--------------------
UYI OLDSKOOL
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NYC
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28/09/02 06:28 AM
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Yeah, audax... I figured all that out about 6 months ago... Posted on it too. Not like anyone read them though.
--------------------
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Yes, let's go.
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