ben-ja-men
gay model poet aka derik troy
Member #4889
Reged: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
323066
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Spinning Magazine - would you buy one?  find similar
22/12/04 05:18 AM
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if there was a quarterly spinning magazine full of loads of technical articles pretty pictures up and coming festivals around the globe for the quarter, interviews and all the other things u come to associate with magazines would you buy one possibly with a vcd of ppls lovely spinning
if yes what would u want from it and how much would you pay for it assuming it was professionally done? bearing in mind im thinking about an internet order based thing so ud have to order it online
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Member #7757
Reged: 02/06/04
Loc: state of confusion
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22/12/04 05:28 AM
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not just yes, but hell yes! as for what i would want in it, damn i dont know it would be cool just to have it ya know........pricing, huh, that should depend on the over head cost of the magazine and how much is in it...........but a ball park figure.......$3-$5 US? i dont know
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You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too
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Vixen
Kiss-a-holic!!
Member #6540
Reged: 10/01/04
Loc: Oxfordshire/Wiltshire
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22/12/04 05:29 AM
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Yeah i think thats a real good idea - esp for ppl like me who are a bit out on thier own with no other spinners.
Price wise - thats not really an issue aslong as its not something really silly! xxx
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tHeReS gOoD aNd EvIl iN EaCh InDiViDuAl fIrE, iDeNtIfIeS nEeDs AnD fEeDs OuR dEsIrEs.
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Havokist
Solicitude
Member #15498
Reged: 20/12/04
Loc: Manchester
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22/12/04 05:34 AM
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A spinning magazine would be a great idea, and the most i'd pay for one is about £5 UK. As long as it had a variety of spinners from a variety of places, and not just one city or town then i think quite a lot of people would be interested in it.
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We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.
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Same as Dostoevskiy
member
Member #5545
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: vodka-country... and it's VERY...
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22/12/04 05:36 AM
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i'd prefere publishing one of theese as soon as we'd have favorable market conditions
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when it gets colder that -25, you don't really care
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Vixen
Kiss-a-holic!!
Member #6540
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Loc: Oxfordshire/Wiltshire
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22/12/04 05:37 AM
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Surely it would just be like a HOP magazine?? xxx
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tHeReS gOoD aNd EvIl iN EaCh InDiViDuAl fIrE, iDeNtIfIeS nEeDs AnD fEeDs OuR dEsIrEs.
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Sir_Sheep
Tigers don't use cutlery, see:
Member #4183
Reged: 01/03/03
Loc: Coventry, UK
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22/12/04 05:53 AM
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Why do you need a magazine, when there's a multitude of webby's already containing all the information which you said would be included?
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Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.
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Same as Dostoevskiy
member
Member #5545
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: vodka-country... and it's VERY...
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22/12/04 06:04 AM
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you can earn more with a magazine
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when it gets colder that -25, you don't really care
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
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22/12/04 06:19 AM
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and people that dont have access to the net will have something to look at.
nice idea ben.
I'd like to see things about buying and making saftey, toys, moves - names and breakdowns, illustrations, vids, types of body movement, stretching, events, classifieds, reader contributions, how to make coloured flames and how to make sparkly poi.
all that and whatever else you could pack in there.
maybe an option to buy a dvd that focuses on one of the above
looking forward to hearing more
a
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Member #7757
Reged: 02/06/04
Loc: state of confusion
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22/12/04 07:18 AM
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so basicaly ado-p wants it to included the FAQ that all of us are tired of answering  plus some extra goodies
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You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too
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Domino
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
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22/12/04 08:41 AM
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I quite like the idea, sounds a bit like a HOP Digest, but that's the problem, HOP has all this stuff and more although it can be a little difficult to find something specific. Price would really depend on the size.
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Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
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Mint Sauce
The Original
Member #5707
Reged: 07/09/03
Loc: Lancs England
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22/12/04 08:51 AM
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Sounds like a good idea I would pay fore it.
Could have guest articles, safety stuff, new moves, tutorials. Readers picks. Is a very interesting idea would love to see how it develops
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before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)
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NYC
Newbie Wrangler
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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22/12/04 08:51 AM
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I don't think spinners would buy it.
I think people would SAY they'd buy it, and if you bought it FOR them, they'd read it.
You'd probably sell 4 copies and have them passed around the community.
I find the firespinning community to be VERY hesitant to reach into their pockets and purchase something like that.
I don't think a magazine suits the clients.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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The Real Fryed Fish
God's illgitament son
Member #7757
Reged: 02/06/04
Loc: state of confusion
323144
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22/12/04 08:58 AM
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how can we be hesitant to purchase something like this? as far as i know there is nothing like it (in print any way) so what are basing that statment on NYC?
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You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too
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spritie
keeper of useless knowledge
Member #606
Reged: 09/09/01
Loc: Galveston, TX
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22/12/04 09:05 AM
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All I will say is that a little over a year ago, the idea for a fire spinning e-zine was passed around. It would have many of the same features as you describe here. There was some interest for it, and the person in the lead had even gathered several others up to help write articles and such. As you can see, though, the e-zine never materalized. I think a more formal/expensive magazine might fall the same way. In theory it is nice.
One complication I would see is mailing it out. Where would base the magazine from? Mailing rates vary greatly from OZ to the states to Europe. One would have to factor that into the cost. So, if it was published in OZ, it would rather expensive to get it to the states. I'd assume the same would be true for getting it to Europe. I'm basing this off of what it would cost for me to get a subscription to another magazine published in OZ here in the states...in OZ, it's about $40 (oz dollars) a year, but for me to get it here in the states, it is about $110 (us dollars). Right now, $40 OZ dollars = $30 US dollars.
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MillenniuM
Hyperloops suck
Member #5125
Reged: 10/07/03
323146
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22/12/04 09:09 AM
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Roger Lai, a spinner that many of you know as he has travelled the globe meeting spinners, has had this idea for quite a long time now. He has been throwing around this idea for quite a while, and is pretty serious about getting it up and going.
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peles_paynim
member
Member #15239
Reged: 12/12/04
Loc: the fascist states of amerika
323151
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22/12/04 09:52 AM
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well...if you do....please include a section on shakeoff cans and the detrimental effects of most coloured flames on the environment.....
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tree-hugging dirt worshipper
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real eyes
realize
real lies
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onewheeldave
Sheffields Premier Off Road Unicyclist
Member #2895
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323179
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22/12/04 11:45 AM
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Written by: NYC
I don't think spinners would buy it.
I think people would SAY they'd buy it, and if you bought it FOR them, they'd read it.
You'd probably sell 4 copies and have them passed around the community.
I find the firespinning community to be VERY hesitant to reach into their pockets and purchase something like that.
I don't think a magazine suits the clients.
Written by: Fryed Fish
how can we be hesitant to purchase something like this? as far as i know there is nothing like it (in print any way) so what are basing that statment on NYC?
I think he's basing it on his experience of spinners 
and he's probably right.
However, I think there could actually be a biggish market for such a mag amongst some of the people who probably wouldn't call themselves spinners, but who would like to get into it.
Especially if the mag had loads of informative articles, some geared towards total beginners, or to people who can spin a bit about how to get into fire (safely).
And if it also had stuff on other skills like juggling, diablo, a bit on off-road unicycling etc; there's signs in the UK of another big wave of interest in circus skills.
With that market topped up by the proportion of spinners who'd buy the mag, maybe it could sell enough to make it worthwhile.
Such a mag, if well done, could actually help to stimulate public interest in spinning and related arts, further boosting its sales.
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"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the  Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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Spanner
big ideas between little ears :)
Member #4171
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22/12/04 12:17 PM
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Written by: ben-ja-men
if yes what would u want from it and how much would you pay for it assuming it was professionally done? bearing in mind im thinking about an internet order based thing so ud have to order it online
Written by:
and all the other things u come to associate with magazines
I'm going to get this out of the way first: I wouldn't buy it if it had too many of the bad things I associate with magazines. One of the main reasons I rarely buy magazines is because I refuse to pay to be advertised to: not just by the adverts themselves but often by the articles. Also, I can usually find exactly the same information online and opt to print it or not.
So I'm not sure if I'd buy it or not. But even if I didn't, the very least I'd want it to do would be to not only offer clear advice on best practice in fire safety, but also advice on how to negotiate with relevant bodies in order to secure fire performance space and reduce accidents. I don't want to see people reading half a magazine they've picked up from a newsagents shelf, attempting to spin fire, getting hurt, a knee jerk reaction from government and the result of no fire for anyone.
My concern here is that, although such a magazine could reach and unite spinners without internet access (unless you decide it can only be ordered by internet, in which case you might as well produce an e-magazine), I think the safety aspects would have to be reiterated in every issue. So I'm not sure how practical that would be, but I'll read on with interest. Any format is going to involve a lot of work but good luck to you
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filthy 23
active agent
Member #6334
Reged: 22/11/03
Loc: USA
323203
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22/12/04 01:06 PM
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OH, I know how hard publishing a magazine can be, did a monthly for a while ~ whew! It's funny you mention it though, me and my friend were predicting a poi magazine... and yes, I would definately buy it!!! I'm an incurable packrat and love to collect anything related to all of my interests, ESPECIALLY zines and propaganda. I would also tell all my friends about it and they'd probably buy it as well because I wouldn't want to loan mine out to just anyone because most of them would bend the edges of the pages. I have 2 very closely trusted book-loanable friends. Those 2 would borrow it and like it so much that they'd have to own their own.
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I AM working.
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Pele
the henna lady
Member #20
Reged: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
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22/12/04 01:39 PM
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Let's see.
Burn Syndicate. E-Zine. Several people volunteered to write articles. It was supposed to eventually go to print as well. Never made it past the first edition.
People crapped out. People moved on.
One of the editors has a line of clothing now though.
Fire Magazine.
Concept went all the way through to article submission. No one signed up for subscriptions, which the money was needed to fund the first printing. It was never printed due to lack of support from the community, despite all of the positive feedback the idea recieved.
I am not even sure where the guy who wanted to publish it went.
Spin and Burn.
Had articles. Had a dedicated staff. Had a bunch of people who said "Oh yes, we will buy it." But no one ended up paying for it. Sample copies went out and while it was extremely strong in concept and content, it was done after the sample.
The start up funding for a good quality magazine (which it would have to be in order to support the illustrations needed for visually based people during technical explainations) is really high. We have a super diverse mindset in the spinning community which means it is a hard group to please, and one which turns over rapidly (*many* people jump on the spin wagon and are off of it in less than 2 years) This means you really can not rely on subscriptions, and pre-pay for single issue is not something most people want to do, and is really not enough to fund the printing of an entire mag. That is not counting staff and, previously mentioned, mailing.
This is where advertising comes in. Then you can hit up companies to pay and advertisement fee and defray printing costs. However, then people will complain that the mag is laden with ads and full of commercialist propoganda, being the free thinking artiste types that spinners are.
There are publications which are portable with this information in them. Many books and such.
And with the numerous websites, computer portability, personal teachers and simple trial and error readily available, there is *alot* of competition.
I am also curious. Things change extremely rapidly in this community. Not just the people involved but also the quality of products fluctuates. The "hot" move changes on a near daily basis. Even safety regs change alot. How would a quarterly stay on top of all of this?
Yup. I am with NYC.
Seen it. Wrote for a couple of the ones who tried. Heard all the "I'll be theres." and sat with the others wondering where they all went when it was time to buy a copy.
I don't mean to diss the dream, and if it is what you want to do, go for it. Just don't put all your eggs in this basket, because history has proven, it is not a money maker.
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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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ben-ja-men
gay model poet aka derik troy
Member #4889
Reged: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
323229
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22/12/04 03:26 PM
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- Why do you need a magazine, when there's a multitude of webby's already containing all the information which you said would be included?
not everyone has the time to be constantly reading forums and they can be quite hard to find the information you want it as its often random information indispersed with chat not to mention everyone has their own way of describing things and there are often no pictures just horrid text descriptions that are like reading another language
- I find the firespinning community to be VERY hesitant to reach into their pockets and purchase something like that.
alot of spinners are like that i agree, i find it quite disgusting that there are always loads of spinners at spitz and sometimes euan has trouble covering the rent because they are to tight to pay 3 quid. these ppl are not the target audience i have in mind, hop however has a large base of ppl who buy things online in the shop and a theres a large portion of ppl who never post
-One complication I would see is mailing it out. Where would base the magazine from? Mailing rates vary greatly from OZ to the states to Europe. One would have to factor that into the cost. So, if it was published in OZ, it would rather expensive to get it to the states.
definately true which is why i would want to have someone in the uk (volunteers?) and america (roger) to be apart of the process so that they could organise printing in both places
- I think the safety aspects would have to be reiterated in every issue.
id thought about that and really i think all the safety stuff could quite easily be summarised in a page or two
- The start up funding for a good quality magazine (which it would have to be in order to support the illustrations needed for visually based people during technical explainations) is really high.
i was thinking of applying for a government grant as there are quite a few around for starting up new ventures type stuff
- This is where advertising comes in. Then you can hit up companies to pay and advertisement fee and defray printing costs. However, then people will complain that the mag is laden with ads and full of commercialist propoganda, being the free thinking artiste types that spinners are.
i was thinking of only having ads relevent to the arts ie for performance groups, event coordinators, different products
- There are publications which are portable with this information in them. Many books and such. And with the numerous websites, computer portability, personal teachers and simple trial and error readily available, there is *alot* of competition.
i havnt read the poi books so i cant really comment on those but for staff theres only the one which is very dated with no contact content.
- I am also curious. Things change extremely rapidly in this community. Not just the people involved but also the quality of products fluctuates. The "hot" move changes on a near daily basis. Even safety regs change alot. How would a quarterly stay on top of all of this?
maybe its a poi thing i found when i was travelling round the uk every new trick i learnt was several years old
im somewhat keen to see it all happen but with a release date of either sept 2005 or dec 2005 depending on funding. so for anyone thats keen to write something or help out pm me
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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ben-ja-men
gay model poet aka derik troy
Member #4889
Reged: 12/06/03
Loc: Adelaide
323231
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22/12/04 03:36 PM
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ps thanx everyone for all the comments its helping me work things out in my head so keep em coming
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
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onewheeldave
Sheffields Premier Off Road Unicyclist
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Reged: 28/08/02
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22/12/04 07:38 PM
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Good luck with it.
I think Pele made some excellent points, and I think you've reflected on them and proposed ways of dealing with them.
Obviously the fact that all similar ventures in the past have failed is highly relevant; then again there's been other times when, after multiple failures, someone comes along who learns from the past, gives it the right slant, and, whilst everyone else has given it up as a bad job, gets it up and running.
If you can get the government grant for new ventures that would take out some of the risk and give you an advantage over those who came before.
I'm in the process of setting up a off-road-unicyle project with funds obtained from a governmant grant; it can be a fair bit of work/stress to put in a decent application, but it's worth the effort.
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"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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mech
maker of pointless avtars
Member #4853
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22/12/04 09:54 PM
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i would agree there will eb large problems with the start of this mag.
the one i was wondering about is the videos...
your proposed a vcd, and someone else talked of a dvd, how would you fund this?
how would you square it off with those who have or will produce vids to go on the cd,
if you look at most sites, ie pip soton, you have to be a member to download (somthing, somtimes im not always in agreement with, but thats a seperate thing, dont mena to cause offence), but what if they wnated money for allowing you to use their vid?
how would you authorise the gloabl use of music on the videos? ie how would you sqaure it with the artists used by teh performers to authorise their music to go global on a cd?
you have to cover copyright, would images to be used in the mags, be paid for aswell?
would you get sponsorship to cover these things?
would you take a section for advertisments from performers in the different countries?
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Step (el-nombrie)
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