KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
556481
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Sparkly poi question I swear hasn’t been asked before.  find similar
05/12/05 09:46 AM
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Before everyone clamors for me to search or do durbs(there’s a  Wire wool thread someone made earlier and got told to search). I am 100% sure I haven’t seen this discussion before. I have the basic gist of how to make sparkly poi. I know the risks and safety precautions I’m going to take. I’ve been spinning poi fanatically almost 3 years now. I’ve got a basic design and tested some Wire wool to see the results already. I want the input of people who have done sparkly poi before since I haven’t.
Question: “Are flower turns feasible while spinning wire wool?”
Flowers/pirouettes/lockouts seem to be a relatively newly rediscovered family of moves for poists. And I haven’t seen any pictures/videos of people spinning Wire wool pulling off flowers. I assume regular flowers are safe because they do not cross over the body. However, common 4 petal flower turns require the poi to crossover the side of your body with the poi head aimed at you at some point during the crossover.
This, I’ve concluded for obvious reasons is UNSAFE and can be deadly. No one’s done a buzzsaw while spinning Wire wool for equally obvious reasons. (sparks to the face)
However, I need someone to verify this, since the crossover point for a 4 petal antispin flower is in the extremity of the 3 and 9 o’clock “petals”, wouldn’t it be safe to pull off with sparkly poi? Theoretically. I don’t know if there’s anyone who can pull off clean antispin flower turns who does Wire wool at this moment.
Now take a regular 4 petal flower without lockouts and no antispin. I’ve noticed during my turns that there’s a split second where the poi are pointing directly into my face. If I were spinning Wire wool I’d be chewing 1600 degrees C metal. If I do 4 petal flowers WITH lockouts, it’s not directly into my face but a bit to the side/angled upwards. Still dangerous but not straight to my face. Either way it’s not smart to attempt.
What about 2 lockouts/petals (12 and 6 o’clock position with turns? Does that seem safe? Looks shady to me.
Or antispin 6 petals (3 per side) with turns. I can’t do this one yet but “theoretically”.
So those of you who have done sparkly poi or are techy poi masters. Am I correct? Or insane for even contemplating the idea of flowers with sparkly poi? 
Thanks for the input 
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To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
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TheBovrilMonkey
Balloonerator
Member #578
Reged: 03/09/01
Loc: High Wycombe, England
556483
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05/12/05 09:54 AM
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I don't see why not - you'd just have to force the turn a little so you're never in a position with the poi spinning towards your face.
Actually, I know people who spin flowers without the poi ever aimed at their face - it's very definately on one side of the body or the other.
I'm not sure how well antispin flowers would work - you'd have to be spinning them pretty damned quick to get a decent shower of sparks.
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But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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05/12/05 10:11 AM
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You do not have to cross the body in any flowers. When the poi are in the horizontal positions, have one BTB and one in front (wall plane) and when they are on their vertical positions, have them at their own sides (side plane). As long as your positioning and planes are good, you should be alright. I dont do Wire wool but I think Id be able to do any flower variation with them if I did.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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05/12/05 10:15 AM
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Also, a good way to find out without the danger is get some water bottles, poke a small hole in the bottom and fill em with water. Attach them to some strings and spin flowers. If you get wet, it might be a problem. If you stay dry, go for it!
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
556492
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05/12/05 10:16 AM
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^flower turns mikey. They do cross body.
When you turn a flower at some point (if you do a CLEAN flower) the poi head/sparks will be pointed directly at you during the crossover to the other side of your body. I agree that regular flowers will never cross.
BovrilMonkey: I guess I have some "unlearning" to do, and fsck up my flowers a bit 
As for antispin, think 'yuta quick' ought to be good enough? 
I'll be practicing all winter and this spring i'll try to capture video for everyone of my first sparkley poi burn.
thanks for prompt answers!
EDIT- Water bottle idea is a damned good one. I'll try it when it isn't 20 degrees f outside 
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To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
Edited by KaelGotRice (05/12/05 10:17 AM)
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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05/12/05 10:40 AM
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Ah yeah, forgot the anti-spin ones are pointed inwards during the crossover. Its still possible with a little modification though.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
556541
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05/12/05 12:46 PM
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hope this isn't too confusing/sloppy.
Note at the red crossover/turn points, on a regular 4 petal flower the sparks are shot inward towards the spinner. On antispin 4 petal flowers they are fired outward.
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To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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05/12/05 07:07 PM
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You know, I was just doing a bunch of flowers and didnt think I would have any problem with wirewool. I naturally crossover when the poi are pointing outwards.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
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05/12/05 11:28 PM
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I love paint 
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My other car is imaginary - I have a van
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NYC
NYC
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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06/12/05 11:04 AM
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Hey... worst case scenario, we all have a really good story to tell our friends.
"Yeah... remember that Kael guy...?"
MAKE SURE YOU VIDEO TAPE IT!
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
557191
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06/12/05 12:08 PM
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UCoF: Paint > all other image editting software
NYC: thanks for your unwavering confidence in my ability
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To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
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NYC
NYC
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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06/12/05 02:51 PM
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Hey, the more friends I have that combust while firespinning, the cooler I look.
And really, isn't that what it's all about?
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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07/12/05 10:58 AM
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I dunno man. Bright yellow fire coats with reflective strips arent quite as cool as burning nylon. Youre still a dork IMO
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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NYC
NYC
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
557837
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07/12/05 11:28 AM
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I won't even MENTION the outfits you have turned up in at Decom and PDF.
And the yellow jacket demands respect, even if it is a bit bright. For some reason people automatically respected some guy in a bright jacket and a radio telling them to back up.
Plus, it makes it easier for my Girlie to find me if she gets lost. 
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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TheBovrilMonkey
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Member #578
Reged: 03/09/01
Loc: High Wycombe, England
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07/12/05 02:15 PM
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I was thinking about this on the train home from spinning this evening...
Get some poi that are longer than your arms and try spinning a flower - I reckon you'll soon learn to miss your face.
No poi smacking you in the face == no molten metal flying into your face when spinning Wire wool
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But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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MiG
Self-Flagellation Expert
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24/01/06 06:12 PM
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you could wear a welding mask... they're pretty much made to have molten hunks of metal thrown at them. Dunno what you'd do about your neck, though...
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"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
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Pikey Phil
newbie
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02/02/06 05:21 AM
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Written by: KaelGotRice
No one’s done a buzzsaw while spinning Wire wool for equally obvious reasons. (sparks to the face)
I have - i just use goggles and balaclava...
great effect!!!!
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LazyAngel
random guy
Member #10419
Reged: 29/07/04
Loc: Cambridge UK
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02/02/06 10:31 AM
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tell me you're joking - What sort of goggles and balaclava do you use to stop the quantities of molten metal flying in your face? and don't you find yourself losing vision from the amount of light filling your view?
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Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
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MiG
Self-Flagellation Expert
Member #7114
Reged: 16/04/04
Loc: Bogged at CG
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03/02/06 12:59 AM
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maybe one of these
or these:
The top one is designed for looking directly at molten steel, so i think, even if a nonstandard filter had to be ordered, there shouldn't be much of a light problem. They're also pretty good at stopping flaming chunks of metal from hitting you in the face, which is another bonus.
If you got a special heat/flame resistant balaklava, which protected your neck and shoulders, and probably a leather apron or similar, and probably some gloves, there shouldn't be too much of a flaming metal chunk problem, especially if the buzzsaw/turning fountain/other spray metal in face move(s) aren't going to be repeated often or for very long.
--------------------
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
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LazyAngel
random guy
Member #10419
Reged: 29/07/04
Loc: Cambridge UK
591400
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03/02/06 06:28 AM
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ok, glad you clarified that MiG, maybe it's just a hangup from my skiing days, just when I read 'goggles and balaclava' I think of
and
but I doubt that those would provide much protection from molten metal to the face
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Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
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Analemma
House
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04/02/06 12:10 AM
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Hmmmm, I dont really understand the question. If you turn you can choose the crossover point of the figure8. Tha "gap" may become smaller when applying different techniques but nonetheless I dont think it is exclusive. Imagine spinning with very long Poi on a pole (e.g. Link, @ Nick) the lenght of the Poi would describe the "dont get in there" area of the sparks. Still all variations of turning are possible, except the above mentioned Buzzsaw variations.
imho?!?
words....
andy
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MiG
Self-Flagellation Expert
Member #7114
Reged: 16/04/04
Loc: Bogged at CG
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04/02/06 12:24 AM
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i'm not sure about the balaklava one, but i've seen a few different types about. possibly a dense woolen one similar to that, with the bottom type of goggles from my post? (the top one's really a mask, but sshh, don't tell it). Would nomex provide suitable protection?
The first one, being a pretty standard welding mask, is designed to provide protection against arc flash, which is what you get when you look directly at the arc of a welder. it's ionised air, molten metal and flux at a couple of hundred/a few thousand degrees c, which causes some damage to the eyes. rougly 10-12 hours later, your eyes feel like they're full of sand, and you can end up with nasty headaches.
It also provides a reasonable degree of impact/penetration protection, thus limiting, if not negating, the possibility of molten metal pieces hitting your face.
Anyhoo, the point i'm making with the first pic is that for head protection, one of those would be the first line of defence. The second would be a (probably shaded) pair of safety glasses with side shielding, just in case a piece happens to slip through the net.
Neck/shoulders would be a little tricky, though i'd say that a leather coif like thingy would do the trick. the things i'm talking about are the same shape etc as the chain mail helmets that are seen now and then, basically an open faced balaklava that has flaps or a full circle covering down past the shoulders.
if i was going to do it, i wouldn't use the oxy goggles (bottom pic of mine). they provide the same sort of protection, just to a lesser degree. a much lighter filter, softer plastic, and, as you can see, a lot less facial protection.
I dare say that if visiblity was a problem, then oxy filters (shade 4-6 on average) would be available for a welding mask (shade 10+, usually).
You can also get automatic, photosensitive masks, but they're probably way too expensive for only a few uses.
For a price guide, the top one in my post costs about $15AUD, and the bottom one about $12. A self shading mask would probably set you back about $120+
--------------------
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
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LazyAngel
random guy
Member #10419
Reged: 29/07/04
Loc: Cambridge UK
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04/02/06 04:57 AM
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Thanks MiG
I'd really like to know what Pikey Phil was using
my real concern is that people would read that post and then get inappropriate protection to perform a wirewool buzzsaw, resulting in little of their face being left, etc...
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Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
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