[Nx?]
Scoiattolo de mare
Member #796
Reged: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
217112
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yo,
this is something the ddragon said before, but i think it warants its own post for ease of future referance.
you can make a tangle buzzsaw go forever:
go into tangle buzzsaw.
make 'isolation' motions with both hands, but not full on isolations, just a little bit.
err, thats it.
helpfull hints.
get a good even tangle buzzsaw in the first place, both poi the same length through the tangle.
move both hands the same amount.
keep the isolated strings between your hands and the tangle 'level', dont be holding your left hand a bit higher.
the hardest thing about perpetual tangle is that it has a tendancy to become uneven, and this quickly spirals out of controle. the tips above should rectify that.
have fun!
T 
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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Dom
moderator
Member #1094
Reged: 19/12/01
Loc: Travelling
217117
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06/04/04 01:56 PM
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You can do full isolations if you tangle then move to quartertime (+) isolations. The poi aren't actually tangled, but they're on the wrong sides so is a little messsed up.
Also try hands spinning in opposite directions in a tanlge buzzsaw - cos it's silly!
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[Nx?]
Scoiattolo de mare
Member #796
Reged: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
217120
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06/04/04 01:59 PM
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yeah, i was gonna say they are sorta tangled/not tangled sittling behind the tangle, but i thought it would be a bit confusing so i didnt. something to notice after you get it I think.
blue finds thease easier when moving them in a tangle buzzsaw fountain....meh!
T
--------------------
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
217165
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06/04/04 05:07 PM
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Good good stuff.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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oli
the girl with cactus
Member #5267
Reged: 24/07/03
Loc: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
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06/04/04 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Also try hands spinning in opposite directions in a tanlge buzzsaw - cos it's silly!
hmmm.... 
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Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
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simian
monkey
Member #3268
Reged: 11/10/02
Loc: London
217240
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07/04/04 12:28 AM
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Dom: did you mean both hands spinning in opposite directions?
or both hands spinning in the opposite direction to the buzzsaw?
the latter is indeed silly and i love it 
but the former is proper crazy  but would still work...
you can move your hands pretty much however you want in a tangle buzzsaw, the only problem is maintaining the momentum.
if you do a forwards tangle, then move your hands as if you were doing a reverse buzzsaw, then its pretty hard to keep the momentum
UNLESS
you also move your reverse buzzsawing hands in a large forwards circle (like a flower), keeping the tangled bit a little isolated to keep the speed up.
(of course, i can't do this stuff with any degree of reliability or cleanliness  )
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"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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Dragon7
Awhiowhio
Member #6074
Reged: 17/10/03
Loc: Aotearoa (NZ)
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07/04/04 09:40 PM
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Well i didn't actually mean you can keep them going forever ...but its a good way to learn how to keep them going for a real long time. I think weight and chain link play a huge part in it.
If any of you have seen afew of the glowstring vid's, you would have seen that alot of them can keep the hyp buzzsaw going (nearly) forever...i think it has to do with the string...any way if you have good medium size heads and thin strong chain its realisticly possible to get alot of rotations. I find it eaiser to do on fire than with pratice poi, it could be the weight or maybee just the adrenalin 
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simian
monkey
Member #3268
Reged: 11/10/02
Loc: London
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07/04/04 09:52 PM
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another limiting factor is that the chain\string\sock gets twisted up unless your hands switch to the other side of the tangle (like you do in a buzzsaw fountain)
EDIT - or if you keep your hands isolating with the poi.
so a twistier 'poi body' makes them easier to keep going. Bootlaces are very twisty, sock poi are possibly the worst for this...
although that doesn't matter if you've got good swivel joints near the handles.
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"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
217428
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07/04/04 10:35 PM
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ball chain is twist-up proof.
and it makes a gorgeous noise when you enter and exit tangles 
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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Y.T.
hopeless addict
Member #4413
Reged: 08/04/03
Loc: nodnoL
217644
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08/04/04 02:34 PM
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hmmm, i love then noise of a perfectly executed hyperloop on ball chain...
i've found that if you isolate for a while, as much as you like, then at the right time snap both your hands back to the normal hyperloop position it just gives the tangle loads more momentum as the chains hit together again. so you can switch between it being isolated and normal as much as you like
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Ninjas NEVER give up!
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morbid
newbie
Member #40771
Reged: 09/09/06
Loc: California, U.S. effin' A.
708608
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09/09/06 06:33 AM
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neh. ball chain= bad. you can't check if they're gonna break of not...and it's happened. with fire poi. ick. but rope poi work really well..hard pressed to do a hyperloop with those...
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Richee
Concentrator, HOP Librarian
Member #1284
Reged: 15/01/02
Loc: Prague
708663
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09/09/06 07:55 AM
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Anti-spin!
lightning,
:R
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POI THEO(R)IST
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TheWibbler
Aotearoan Adventurer
Member #4448
Reged: 11/04/03
Loc: New Zealand
708730
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09/09/06 12:13 PM
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Isolating your hands backwards split time during a forwards tangle is indeed very silly, and very tricky to exit, thanks to bluecat for introducing that silliness to me.
That action (perpetual tangles) is what some folks refer to as Oli-ing.
The action is to jump the leading poi over the nexus, the trailing poi should follow on it's own. 'Much like riding a horse'
At this point there is loosness in the nexus, as you jump the lead poi over again the nexus tightens again. This is the time that you are correcting the various lengths of everything to balance out.
Socks work well because of the grip they have on each other. This allows for very fine tuning.
m
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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09/09/06 12:26 PM
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that's the best description of oli-ing i've ever read right there ^
thank-you for that matt  you rock
rating this thread a five for that gem.
cole. x
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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TheWibbler
Aotearoan Adventurer
Member #4448
Reged: 11/04/03
Loc: New Zealand
708752
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09/09/06 02:13 PM
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cheers coleman,
off topic:
I've got so much i need to explain but it's just overwhelming me at the moment. Where to begin? I'm trying to figure a way to get it all out in some cohesive way. I have all the tools needed to do it, i even have some time. I've just spent a year watching video upon video of all this stuff in slo mo and lots of concepts have really crystalised.
Anyhoo, pm me if you have any thoughts about how to get it all down.
btw, i like the term 'perpetual tangle' waaaay more than 'infinite tangle' etc
--------------------
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
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poinoob
member
Member #61244
Reged: 17/10/07
Loc: louisianna, new orleans
864324
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26/02/08 02:46 PM
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clarify for me whats the difference from a tangle busaws and an orbital because from what yall are say they sound like the same move
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Acciaio
Tangled into my spins
Member #29439
Reged: 03/01/06
864347
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26/02/08 08:15 PM
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tangle stays on two planes that are 90° one each other and orbital is on two planes that are not at 90°...
something like:
tangle
o
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-------
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o
orbital
o
/
-------
/
o
I hope I'm true...
Acciaio 
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
864352
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26/02/08 09:46 PM
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Er...Personally I'd say "Tangle buzzsaw" is old-skool speak for orbitals.
The difference in the first post would be it's describing more an "oli-loop" style orbital when you keep the poi going by pushing the tangle in a circular motion, where as an orbital tends to rely on the entry speed, i.e. a tangle is active, an orbital is passive.
Possibly 
--------------------
"It's times like this I wish I'd listened to my mother"
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know - I wasn't listening"
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newgabe
chopping wood drawing water
Member #17365
Reged: 03/03/05
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
864393
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27/02/08 12:37 AM
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Sounds good to me, Durbs.
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.....I remembered my power cord.... I remembered my power cord....
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splinterific
Member
Member #49779
Reged: 12/03/07
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27/02/08 02:40 AM
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so a tangle buzzsaw is effectivly the same as a hyperloop entry? or am i mistaken?
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
864453
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27/02/08 06:00 AM
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A tangle buzzsaw is a (infinite) hyperloop - it's just an old-skool name for it
--------------------
"It's times like this I wish I'd listened to my mother"
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know - I wasn't listening"
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Mr_Chutney
Tosser
Member #4487
Reged: 18/04/03
Loc: Herefordshire
864455
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27/02/08 06:16 AM
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Written by: Durbs
an orbital tends to rely on the entry speed
You think? I thought orbitals (derived from glow sticking and now adopted by nick as super duper uber poopers or something) are tang;es, buzzsaw hyperloops that are then sharply tightened, causing a fast, tight spinning.. err, thingy.
So I wouldn't therefore agree with an orbital being passive. Have I misunderstood?
--------------------
There is no book that can tell you what happened after you're dead except one written by a dead person and dead people don't write. All you have to do is go and and look at a lot of dead people, they're not writing, they just aren't.
Stephen Fry
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
864490
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27/02/08 07:39 AM
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Fair point - but they aren't propelled, after the initial spurt of energy from the string-shortening they're left to run their course then exit, where as buzzsaw-tangle/oli-loops/pushed infinite hyperloops are given their energy until you get bored 
--------------------
"It's times like this I wish I'd listened to my mother"
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know - I wasn't listening"
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Mr_Chutney
Tosser
Member #4487
Reged: 18/04/03
Loc: Herefordshire
864493
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27/02/08 08:08 AM
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Weeeell. Yes, but, you can repropel them, by slackening and retensioning.. this isn't done that much but has been demonstrated by Nick with his swivel poi.
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There is no book that can tell you what happened after you're dead except one written by a dead person and dead people don't write. All you have to do is go and and look at a lot of dead people, they're not writing, they just aren't.
Stephen Fry
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
864511
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27/02/08 10:41 AM
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No, because eventually you'd run out of energy - it's just lengthening and shortening the chain to vary the speeds, it doesn't give add any energy into the move (well, maybe a slight bit) - but you couldn't do them indefinitely...
--------------------
"It's times like this I wish I'd listened to my mother"
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know - I wasn't listening"
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