duballstar
explorer of the everyday
Member #5662
Reged: 03/09/03
Loc: North Downs
262856
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After initially planning on making my own monkey fists i've decided it's not gonna cost me much more and is going to be much less hassle just to buy a set from our wonderful HOP shop.  I wanted to get them with ball chain + was wondering if any one else that's got them could give me some feedback. what's best the #13 or #15 (which seems to have temporarily dissapeared)? also i notice that they come with special 'twist oval' chain. is this any better than normal chains which love to tangle? 
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It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchet
Revolutions take place in the mind. Actions are what follow.
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Lurch
addict
Member #6195
Reged: 01/11/03
Loc: Oregon
262857
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14/08/04 09:40 PM
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"Twist oval" chains are actually 'curb chains,' but that's just me being picky.
They are what I use however.. Actually I'm using choker chains for a dog but they are the same thing. You probably won't beat them for strength, I wouldn't ever worry about that welded stainless wearing out on you, you could hang off of it no problem. Not something I'd do on a ballchain..
As for tangles, I can't tell you much in comparison to others since curb chains are pretty much all I use. They do have a slight tendancy to twist but thats because they wont roll like a ballchain will. Barely noticeable. I don't do a whole lot of hyperloops but they seem to deal with them well enough.
They do tend to be heavy though, I've had issues with home made sets using those chains because the chain itself was heavier than the head which threw off the balance a bit.... But again, I haven't spun much with ballchains so I wouldn't be a fair judge between the two.
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#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored 
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
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MillenniuM
Hyperloops suck
Member #5125
Reged: 10/07/03
263794
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17/08/04 07:48 PM
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I used 13 gauge with 'em for a while, worked out great. Due to how heavy they are, I suggest replacing them every 2 or 3 months to be safe.
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duballstar
explorer of the everyday
Member #5662
Reged: 03/09/03
Loc: North Downs
265092
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21/08/04 02:54 AM
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thanks guys  i've ordered some with 13 gauge now so we'll see how it goes! 
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adamrice
poo-bah
Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
265171
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21/08/04 07:39 AM
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#13 stainless-steel ball-chain should be good for quite a bit longer than 2-3 months. It's got about the same test strength as #15 mild steel chain and much higher hardness. I've only seen #15 fail a couple times after about 18 months of spinning. My own #13 SS chains (and I'm not sure how old they are, actually) are showing less sign of "ball separation" than my old #15s.
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Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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MillenniuM
Hyperloops suck
Member #5125
Reged: 10/07/03
265277
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21/08/04 04:32 PM
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Mine have snapped twice, both after about 4 months of use. Granted, I use mine for both lit and unlit spinning, and I spin a lot. Replacement cost is only about 3 dollars anyway, why *NOT* replace them every 3 months just to be safe?
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Lurch
addict
Member #6195
Reged: 01/11/03
Loc: Oregon
265742
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23/08/04 06:37 PM
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remember that mild steel is going to be more susceptible to annealing and weakening because of the heat than stainless. Another reason I like the welded curb chain, but it doesn't twist the same as ballchains..
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#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
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vanize
Lord Ballchain
Member #540
Reged: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
266375
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25/08/04 04:04 AM
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Ok, it's been a while since I went into one of my ballchain dissertations. I adore the stuff.
13 gauge you absolutely must replace after about 50-60 burns. flip it after 25-30 or so in order that the heat fatigued end is now at the handles. After another 25-30, retire it.
15 gauge will last considerably longer - around 200 burns probably, but you still need to watch it, and flip it after 100 or so.
what you are looking for it speading of the seam on the balls at the heat end from heat fatigue. Once it starts speading and you can fit your fingernail into the seam, then you are pushing your luck. Do us all a favor and replace the chain once you reach that point.
avoiding things that cause sudden stress on the chain while it is hot (e.g. whacking your poi on the ground to extingush them) will keep the heat fatigue to a minimum.
Note that this is definitely due to the heat. Even 10 gauge brass ball chain will last for practically ever if you stick to using it with practice poi. 10 gauge will fail very rapidly if there is any fire invoved.
never ever use aluminum ball chain - it is decorative only.
Avoid nickle plated steel chain. the nickle plating flakes off and causes nasty metal splinters. it corrodes and heat fatigues much faster than stainless steel ball chain as well.
If in doubt as to whether or not you are looking at plated or stainless steel, use a magnet. A magnet will stick to the plated steel, but will only slightly (if at all) attract the stainless (too much cromium in the mix for the steel to magnetize).
I really should write up a ballchain FAQ for the articles section someday....
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Kombi guy
member
Member #6329
Reged: 21/11/03
Loc: HOP Central, New Zealand
267128
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26/08/04 09:34 PM
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The SS or NPS Oval twist chain looks very cool on the monkey fist sets.
A kind of industrial strength type of look. 
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adamrice
poo-bah
Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
267237
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27/08/04 02:47 AM
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It's worth pointing out here that I've seen 3 ball-chain failures. Only one of these was caused by "ball spread". The other two were failures of the little connecting rod on the last ball--the rod that passes through the connector. In one case, this was on the hot end, in the other, on the cold end. My guess is that this was caused by mechanical wear--the rod rocking against the edge of the connector.
If I'm correct, this would be another advantage of #13 SS chain: the connector lies flatter against the ball it captures, so there's less for the rod to rock against.
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Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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vanize
Lord Ballchain
Member #540
Reged: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
267242
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27/08/04 02:55 AM
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yeah, I've seen that kind of failure too, but only during an impact of some sort. 13 gauge has a smaller rod that the 15 though doesn't it? that would suggest that the 15 is still more resistant to this problem.
Note that the spreading of the ball failure usually happens at the second ball - ie just above where the rod-break problem occures. this is the area where most torque from impacts is exherted.
All I can say is that I have never seen SS ballchain that hasn't been exposed to fire fail in a poi related application.
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