mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
436369
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Lately I've been doing a lot of wick grab moves. Either for direction changes or just a little excitement. After a couple sessions I inevitably have little second degree burns all over my hands and arms from the chain just above the wick. Those little burns get seriously annoying.
To fix the problem, I took a section of 2" wick and sewed it into a sleeve that slides down the chain to cover the hottest section.
The sleeve slides easily so you can quickly pull it up the chain when you dip and let it back down to spin. It acts as a buffer between your skin and the hot metal as well as an insulator so the metal doesn't seem to get quite as hot. This has dramatically reduced the number of burns I get when grabbing and doesn't add much weight.
Anyone else out there use something like this or have a better design? I thought about kevlar gloves but that would ruin the whole effect.
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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Gherkin
Inventor
Member #18360
Reged: 06/04/05
Loc: Hobart
436381
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18/06/05 01:46 PM
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That's a pretty good idea... I would use it, but I change between my nylon practice monkeyfists and my kevlar ones quite regularly, so I need to be able to get to the quicklink. I'll have to stick to avoiding the chain.
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mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
436386
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18/06/05 01:57 PM
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The sleeve slides easily up and down the chain\quick link\swivel so the quick link is still at the base and is accessible. Spinning force keeps the sleeve in place. I put the swivel above my quick link so it just pokes out the top of the sleeve and does not interfere with it's operation.
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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Dragon7
Awhiowhio
Member #6074
Reged: 17/10/03
Loc: Aotearoa (NZ)
436391
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18/06/05 02:09 PM
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Nope, my chains never even get hot  I can wrap then around bare skin down to the head and the head can even sit there for a second.
What type of chains do you use? And do you have metal bolts sticking out of your heads? Maybee you have really big heads? I did use to have that problem, but that was when i used cable. Cable burns suck. 
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mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
436393
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18/06/05 02:27 PM
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The only exposed metal is the top link ring. It's probably my fuel. I primarily use white gas which burns hot and I usually spin a few times before the poi completely cool.
Doing grabs with kero is far too messy. You end up looking like you stepped out of a coal mine.
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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Gherkin
Inventor
Member #18360
Reged: 06/04/05
Loc: Hobart
436396
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18/06/05 03:11 PM
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I always look like I've stepped out of a coal mine when I'm spinning. Wraps with snake poi using kero = very black. I'm going to give your idea a go when my wick comes in the mail.
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vanize
Lord Ballchain
Member #540
Reged: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
436590
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19/06/05 02:21 AM
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I find the ballchain doesn't cause burns (not enough heat capacity to cause significant burns I think), but the quicklink, eyebolt, and washer do.
I like your idea though... it also made me wonder about coating the offending parts with a thin layer of white glue to reduce their heat conductivity, though this is probably not durable enough to be effective on the quicklink and would also complicate opening it, which means this wick condom idea still sounds pretty good, and a lot less cumbersome than arm gaurds.
hmmm....
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Antiworm
member
Member #5855
Reged: 23/09/03
Loc: Independence Oregon
442070
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25/06/05 06:36 AM
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Excellent idea. After seeing wick grabs for the first time at Burning Man, i immediately started trying it. i use white gas and haven't gotten any bad burns ( just a little discomfort when i don't catch the wicks just right [ home-made cathedrals with large fender washers and a big eyebolt through them ] ). When next i order stuff from HOP then i'll probably get some extra kevlar to try that out. Thanks.
As a side note, i'm a bit more concerned about messing up my nylon handles when doing sustained grabs than getting burned. My friend's handles are quite warped now after periodically melting a little from such grabs. Maybe we should switch to leather? ( i'll do a search to see if a thread exists on that topic ).
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Gherkin
Inventor
Member #18360
Reged: 06/04/05
Loc: Hobart
442286
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25/06/05 12:21 PM
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I've been doing grabs like that for a bout 6 weeks now, and my nylon handles are still in one piece. I got some leather handles a few days ago though, because I'm also worried about my nylon handles melting or catching on fire.
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Mr_Chutney
Tosser
Member #4487
Reged: 18/04/03
Loc: Herefordshire
442312
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25/06/05 12:56 PM
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Ok, is it just me or is it obvious that the most dangerous thing is the metal in fire-poi construction- it conducts and retain lots of heat, weakens under heat and isn't actually that good to spin with (chain and swivels, links etc)
THEREFORE
ditch firepoi with metal in- I have since october and I'm a far happier fire spinner!
I am saying nothing more.
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There is no book that can tell you what happened after you're dead except one written by a dead person and dead people don't write. All you have to do is go and and look at a lot of dead people, they're not writing, they just aren't.
Stephen Fry
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Pyrolific
World Fire Pilgrim
Member #60
Reged: 10/01/01
Loc: Adelaide, South Australia
442354
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25/06/05 04:12 PM
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what do you make the chain substitute out of? wood? 
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--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
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mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
442383
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25/06/05 07:50 PM
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LOL!
You can't just say something like that in the "Technical Discussion" forum without the details Mr Chutney.  
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
442397
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25/06/05 09:42 PM
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errrr... gloves people?
nevermind...
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To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
443982
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28/06/05 02:12 PM
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Good thinking Chutney. I have a feeling I know what youre talking about. Ive been wanting to take the same path for the past two months or so. Just havent gotten around to buying the supplies to make my new leashes yet. May I inquire on the method you used? I was just thinking of something like a reverse snake. However, doing that would still leave metal bits at the bottom... But I dont really care about that, I just want to get rid of the chainness. But, if your way gets rid of chains and metal near the heads, Im all for hearing it.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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Mr_Chutney
Tosser
Member #4487
Reged: 18/04/03
Loc: Herefordshire
444047
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28/06/05 08:12 PM
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Its not my design to disclose I'm afraid 
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There is no book that can tell you what happened after you're dead except one written by a dead person and dead people don't write. All you have to do is go and and look at a lot of dead people, they're not writing, they just aren't.
Stephen Fry
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Antiworm
member
Member #5855
Reged: 23/09/03
Loc: Independence Oregon
444622
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29/06/05 08:42 AM
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So you say we should ditch fire poi with metal in them yet you can't tell us how to do that. Hmmn.... interesting.
i think i'll stick to getting burned by the metal cuz it's cool. Really cool.
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mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
444662
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29/06/05 10:39 AM
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I suppose you could use kevlar rope as your chain but I can't imagine it would last more than a season. Hyperloops might be tough with rope unless it's thin and then I would seriously worry about it's longevity.
I think metal is still the answer. If built properly, it will be the last place to fail on a poi set.
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
444679
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29/06/05 11:25 AM
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mbbeer:
The thing with chain is you cant really tell if it was built properly. You never know if theres a weak ball in your chain or a messy weld in your links. Lots of things can happen to it including rusting, weakening at joints due to friction, weakening of the chain due to heat, etc. On top of that, chain just doesnt feel as good as other things can, namely kevlar rope. Its certainly a different feeling when you spin. Its closer to sock poi which is exactly what I want. And even Kevlar rope can last quite a while if its made with the right design and taken care of. Plus, its not really expensive to get ~3 feet of 1" rope for a set of leashes.
Chutney: Is this design planned for sale? If not, perhaps you could send me a PM with some info or at least the name of the designer so I could talk to them personally? Either way, its not a big deal as Im fine with using my current metallic method but Im always looking for fun new ways of doing things.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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herewego
Member
Member #18682
Reged: 15/04/05
447266
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02/07/05 07:31 AM
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You could also use 1/16 cable leash inside of 5/16 kevlar rope.
But how would you attach the kevlar leash to the wick?
I wanna make my poi as light as possible.
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flid
blank
Member #2889
Reged: 27/08/02
Loc: Warwickshire
447366
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02/07/05 11:16 AM
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Have a looksie here:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB7&Number=136606
http://www.offline.org.uk/flids.php
for my answer to wicks that don't hurt too much when you catch them/do bareskin wraps
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mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
447379
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02/07/05 12:20 PM
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That's just what I was looking for, thanks flid!
It looks like a lot of work to build them, all those big holes through the cathedrals and threading the rope. Adapting that design to hybrid wicks would probably take less effort. (and a bit less kevlar)
Now, what's the best way to attach the chain to the rope... I don't want a knot there. I used a crimped piece of pipe on a pair of snakes I made but somehow that seems sketchy.
I also really like herewego's cable inside a rope idea but cable doesn't wrap too well. I bet I could fit my chains inside a 1/2" rope but I would have to lose the base quick link... Time to test out some new ideas, thanks for the input everyone.
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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herewego
Member
Member #18682
Reged: 15/04/05
447653
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03/07/05 04:22 AM
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mtbeer:
I actually got the idea from this site - http://www.firewhip.com/poi.html
Its called wrapper poi.
I have a video of some glowstringers using the wrapper poi and to me it looks no different than glowstringing. Everything a glowstringer does only with fire.
You can download the video here http://s15.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0KYC5606N5LE0HSBL0C2RKOOT
Just go towards the 2 last people.
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mtbeer
ARRRR!
Member #11030
Reged: 11/08/04
Loc: Charlotte, NC, USA
447715
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03/07/05 05:13 AM
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I'll have to borrow a pair of those from Riz and give 'em a whirl. He does say "These poi wear the leashes out before the wicking does." Which is something I would like to avoid.
That's some pretty intense wrappage going on in that vid. It doesn't look like they are using kevlar though. I'm guessing it's white gas on cotton wicks. All the stray embers flying off give it away.
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"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
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flid
blank
Member #2889
Reged: 27/08/02
Loc: Warwickshire
447781
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03/07/05 06:29 AM
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Written by: herewego
I actually got the idea from this site - http://www.firewhip.com/poi.html
lol, like the way they say "This is an exclusive item designed by Fire By Riz.", yet in 2003 when I coined the idea mr rice said "This is an ingenious design. I like it"
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