[Nx?]
Scoiattolo de mare
Member #796
Reged: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
813129
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Can we name this move? (bf anti-poly flower)  find similar
26/06/07 05:34 AM
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yeah so, poi are splittime butterfly, one hand does a logarm circle whilst the other follows it doing a tri-foil antispin.
Its a great move and i would like to call it something better than bf anti-poly flower. and its not really a flower...
sugestions?
T 
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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Yakumo
Hyperlight zealot
Member #35166
Reged: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
813171
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26/06/07 09:54 AM
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yeah, i know the one you mean, i think, not totally sure what you mean by 'tri-foil'? I'm assuming you don't just mean 3 petals to the flower? as I know you know it can be done with more.
A few people have just been calling it a butterfly hybrid but that isn't accurate enough.
I've been trying to learn it spinning the other way for ages so I can do the rapid switch to it as it looks amazing.
there's another butterfly antispin trick I'd like a name for, where they go one arm above the other and move rapidly to the other side of the body, then switch and move back, the visual effect is a vertical bar (made of the poi going head to head in a line) swapping sides.
I've seen it before at least once or twice, but G was doing it very cleanly at Southern Lights.
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Look_This_Changes
Ministry Approved
Member #11858
Reged: 31/08/04
Loc: Back Home, Innit.
813172
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26/06/07 10:04 AM
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yakumo, they sound like split time butterfly antispin flowers.
Lovely move. I forgot I could do that. thanks.
Nx, could it be some kind of butterfly fountain?
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Step (To Bluecat): That's something I can imagine Ed doing, only cleaner and better.
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Yakumo
Hyperlight zealot
Member #35166
Reged: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
813173
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26/06/07 10:10 AM
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mm, butterfly fountain works well actually, as all your doing is a circle with your arms, the effect is technically then natural from just that motion, it just takes practice to not collide, and get the timing right for the pace of the long arm, and keep the antispin clean.
I've heard the term before though, are there other butterfly fountains I've missed somehow?
PS. Bummed to hear you're not going to be able to be at PLaY LTC 
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Yakumo
Hyperlight zealot
Member #35166
Reged: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
813177
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26/06/07 10:52 AM
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as for the other move I asked about, how about sweeps, or etch-a-scetch ? (it's like the blanking wipe some had instead of having to shake)
sandy and oli were doing it with double horizontal stalls too.
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[Nx?]
Scoiattolo de mare
Member #796
Reged: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
813199
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26/06/07 01:24 PM
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yeah, tri-foil is three petals, it can be done with more but three is the natural number for the polyrythum.
it could be butterfly fountain, but thats another move where both poi make multiple beats, it dosnt really express the longarm element. Besides fountain is a very specific thing (I only found out recently what it really was).
I have no idea what movew you are onaabout yakomo, but the rapid switch is a question of having your splittime bang on at the bottom when you make your swich... I have thease turning now 
T
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
813251
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26/06/07 07:19 PM
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No way is this anything to do with a fountain - so you can leave that idea right now 
*mutter mutter mutter*
I think it is most often called a hybrid b/f flower, as opposed to a poly-rhythm flower (as this could be done in several different ways) - being that it is hybrid; one long arm, one isolated (as the antispin contains an isolation), moreover it also shares the hands-together-ness you get with weave hybrids.
And it's a flower, as it has petals, albeit only with one hand...
God, it's too early for such technical ramblings...
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Look_This_Changes
Ministry Approved
Member #11858
Reged: 31/08/04
Loc: Back Home, Innit.
813270
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26/06/07 08:50 PM
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that's funny... I was always told that antispin contains no isolation...
which would make the hybrid part obsolete.
When you do a butterfly buzzsaw fountain, one poi automatically spins antispin whilst the other spins normal spin. you don't mention the word antispin in the name of that move...
I don't believe there's a hybrid in there at all.
It is definately butterfly poly rhythm... but poly rhythm what?
Circle? :s
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Elements of the past and the future, combining to make something not quite as good as either...
Step (To Bluecat): That's something I can imagine Ed doing, only cleaner and better.
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Yakumo
Hyperlight zealot
Member #35166
Reged: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
813278
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26/06/07 09:36 PM
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yeah, I was wondering about 'The Fountain', as I've seen the club swingers get reaaaaaaally heavily into the arguments on it. I wasn't aware it would be so picked over if it was an 'X/Y Fountain' though.
hybrid - depends if people think hybrid in plain English terms (composite of two or more things) or if spinners insist in skill toy terms it has to contain one isolated part.
I need to find a video ref clip for the other move I was asking about to show, but I really don't know any off hand,need oli/sandy or G to get busy with a camera, but that seems unlikely, slackers 
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Yakumo
Hyperlight zealot
Member #35166
Reged: 31/05/06
Loc: Oxfordshire
813279
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26/06/07 09:38 PM
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ooo, sad thing is the visual effects going to be of an atom isn't it? antispin within a plain circle, but that's already taken.
So how about a 'butterfly atom'?
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
813295
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26/06/07 10:30 PM
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Lets call it Geoff.
(You mean this move dont you?)
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Look_This_Changes
Ministry Approved
Member #11858
Reged: 31/08/04
Loc: Back Home, Innit.
813303
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26/06/07 10:48 PM
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UCoF: Almost, but not quite. your arms are splitime, but in this one, the hands are together.
Durbs does it nicely in his patio video.
Yakumo, for a video of the one you mean, I believe lazyangel does it nicely in a video too... and Meenick does it quite often.
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Elements of the past and the future, combining to make something not quite as good as either...
Step (To Bluecat): That's something I can imagine Ed doing, only cleaner and better.
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Motley
enthusiast
Member #26074
Reged: 09/10/05
813311
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26/06/07 11:00 PM
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Antispin vs longarm? - one arm doing antispin flower whilst one arm does long arm circles - or am I thinking of something totally different. Either way I hav'nt managed to pull it off yet Seen Guy (Lazyangel) do it though and it looks looovely.
Vid would be nice to clarify
On the subject of tri-foils, can anyone do opposite tri-foil antispin flowers (making a 6 point flower from audience perspective), was trying to work out if it was possible
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LazyAngel
random guy
Member #10419
Reged: 29/07/04
Loc: Cambridge UK
813319
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26/06/07 11:08 PM
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My vid that Ed is talking about is currently offline, I believe.
I think the best vid examples of this move (learning wise) have come from Durbs patio spin and maybe Garthy's xmas vid? also maybe in one or two of meenik's more recentish vids (beautiful thing about ashes/maybe the vid with yuta) but I'm not sure on that
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
813333
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26/06/07 11:19 PM
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In wallplane then? 
Hands together, going round in a cirle together, poi in butterfly RESULTING IN: one poi 1 petal flower (a circle!) and the other 3 petal anti spun?
That right then?
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Look_This_Changes
Ministry Approved
Member #11858
Reged: 31/08/04
Loc: Back Home, Innit.
813363
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26/06/07 11:49 PM
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that is indeed correct.
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Elements of the past and the future, combining to make something not quite as good as either...
Step (To Bluecat): That's something I can imagine Ed doing, only cleaner and better.
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
813370
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27/06/07 12:01 AM
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I cant picture it and have no idea what you are talking about.
Who are you anyway?
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[Nx?]
Scoiattolo de mare
Member #796
Reged: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
813373
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27/06/07 12:04 AM
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Written by: Motley
On the subject of tri-foils, can anyone do opposite tri-foil antispin flowers (making a 6 point flower from audience perspective), was trying to work out if it was possible
yup its possible, and very hard
T
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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simian
monkey
Member #3268
Reged: 11/10/02
Loc: London
813376
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27/06/07 12:14 AM
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Warning. The monkey is feeling argumentative. This in no way reduces the validity of his opinions, but it does mean he may use hyperbolic language in a way that could be deemed offensive by GODDAM HIPPIES.
Soooooo this move is a hybrid?
hybrid in the sense in that your hands are doing "different things"????????????
W T F?
Please inform me of a move that isn't hybrid.
That is the most monumentally IDIOTIC form of nomenclature i have ever encountered.
Ed - an antispin pattern doesn't necessarily contain isolation, but an antispin pattern can also be isolated, in a few different ways.
TommyNx - what do you mean by split time in this context?
All - Surely this move should be named as part of a family that deals with the effects of moving the common centre of direction of two opposite direction poi. (a la RobbieBluecat's brownian motion butterfly - a kind of ordered butterfly heisenberg)
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simian
monkey
Member #3268
Reged: 11/10/02
Loc: London
813377
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27/06/07 12:15 AM
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Written by: {Nx?}
Written by: Motley
On the subject of tri-foils, can anyone do opposite tri-foil antispin flowers (making a 6 point flower from audience perspective), was trying to work out if it was possible
yup its possible, and very hard
i do em in crosser 
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
813382
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27/06/07 12:22 AM
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I think Motley means in Wheelchairplane, not wall plane.... I think...
If you can do those, crossed, in wallplane, I'll eat the first fat person I see.
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Look_This_Changes
Ministry Approved
Member #11858
Reged: 31/08/04
Loc: Back Home, Innit.
813385
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27/06/07 12:24 AM
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Written by: simian
Ed - an antispin pattern doesn't necessarily contain isolation, but an antispin pattern can also be isolated, in a few different ways.
But in this move, I fail to see the isolation. Surely if the antispun poi was isolated, the outside circle would become irregular (is that the right word?)
therefore, no isolation = no hybrid in my opinion.
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Elements of the past and the future, combining to make something not quite as good as either...
Step (To Bluecat): That's something I can imagine Ed doing, only cleaner and better.
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bluecat
azuremog
Member #3686
Reged: 15/12/02
Loc: everywhere
813386
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27/06/07 12:25 AM
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i'd call it a hybrid  caus i like the idea of driving style hybrids.
but very specifically i'd call it a garthy hybrid (cause it was him i saw doing them first) - i totally agree with Simian that to call anything that has two hands doing different things a hybrid is a bit too silly. but this was discussed at length on tribes, and hybrids have been fairly well defined now....
i wish i knew what my brownian motion butterfly was....
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bluecat
azuremog
Member #3686
Reged: 15/12/02
Loc: everywhere
813389
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27/06/07 12:26 AM
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goodness. very limiting there, aren't you, mr ed.....?
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
813392
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27/06/07 12:34 AM
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I thought, when this move was discussed several months ago ( ) there was a nice side discussion on why the antispin in this pattern is isolated...
Meh, do a search, it's all there somewhere.
Ed, as per usual, is wrong (just in general).
Wallplane hybrid butterfly flower, with optional polyrhythm?
To argue with Monkey, which is always fun, "Surely this move should be named as part of a family that deals with the effects of moving the common centre of direction of two opposite direction poi"
you'd need to add "in the same direction"
So...on previous nomenclature...this move would be a Goofy Polyrhythm Hybrid Butterfly Flower
Or just "goofy hybrid" as a move genre
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