Frenzie
member
Member #95
Reged: 30/01/01
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
128728
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Does anyone have a problem with ball chain getting rusty? We have never had any problem with chain, or cable and ive left mine in some of the most undesirable places for metal and never had a problem, but the ball chain seems to start to rust even after only being used once and kept along side a set of chains!?
-------------------- - Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -
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adamrice
poo-bah

Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
128729
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06/12/01 03:55 AM
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This is surprising. I wonder what kind of ball chain you are getting there. I've used two kinds here--steel with nickel plating, and stainless steel. The former seem to hold up fine (some discoloration around the seam on each ball, perhaps, but no obvious rust); the latter I haven't used as much, but should also hold up fine.
-------------------- Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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Malcolm
Unregistered
128730
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06/12/01 09:54 AM
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Ours is the Nickel plated (NPS) steel ball chain from www.ballchain.com we have not had a problem with the ones we use personally. Are you sure it is rust? and not something else. Try rubbing to see if it comes off.Cables are usually Stainless Steel of some grade. There are many grades of stainless steel. Some are soft and contain other metals blended within them to alter their characteristics. Some stainless steel can stick to a magnet and others do not. Stainless steel should not rust. Chain too come in grades of stainless steel. NP steel and galvanised steel (galvanised coating comes of easy with little heat) NP is electroplated onto steel. NP will start to come off if the metal gets red hot. Where the metal glows red. White hot metal the NP blisters and falls away from metal. When swinging the components may well get hot but should not be getting anywhere hot enough to cause the NP to come off. Hope that helps.
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Cantus
Gelatinous

Member #464
Reged: 30/07/01
Loc: Down the road
128731
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06/12/01 10:14 AM
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How odd. It shouldn't rust so easily. Are you storing it some place damp? You can't catch rust. It's a low tempreture oxidation of iron and steel in the presence of water. So storing next to some chains isn't enough. Are you sure it isn't simply discolouring? Take the "rust" off with some wirewool.
-------------------- "I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat " - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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pozee
member
Member #452
Reged: 27/07/01
Loc: san diego
128732
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06/12/01 10:53 AM
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that is definately strange. i live on the beach and my old linked chain rusted within a matter of days, where as my ball chain is holding up perfect. a little lubricant such as wd-40 may help out...
-------------------- anyone got a light?
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blue_flame
member
Member #593
Reged: 06/09/01
Loc: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA
128733
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06/12/01 11:12 AM
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On the topic of ball chains...I was curious of how well ball chain poi work for wraps. I have only used cable and it works fine but I wan't to make a pair and it seems easier to find ball chain (hint: HOP shop ). Anyways, how do they work for wraps, and is there a difference in wrap performance for the # ball chain? Thanks in advance to anyone that can help! Chris
-------------------- Defy Gravity!
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pozee
member
Member #452
Reged: 27/07/01
Loc: san diego
128734
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06/12/01 11:47 AM
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i love doing wraps, my ball chain works wonderful for it. i usually do wraps really hard and really fast. you should definately purchase it. i have had no problems with it.
-------------------- anyone got a light?
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adamrice
poo-bah

Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
128735
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06/12/01 02:43 PM
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I don't use wraps that extensively, but yeah, ball-chain works quite nicely for it. Better than cable, I'd say. If wrap-performance is a priority, I'd go with a smaller size. I've used #13 and #15--the #13 is noticeably smaller, and wraps around a tighter radius than the #15 (good for wrist wraps, etc)--it has more of a "loose piece of string" feeling to it. I also think ball-chain digs less than cable.
-------------------- Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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Bendy
member
Member #567
Reged: 29/08/01
Loc: Adelaide, SA, Australia
128736
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06/12/01 06:37 PM
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Aha! - but you are wrong Cantus... You can catch rust (and I am not talking aout the disease plants get). There are some bacteria that oxidize iron, turning it into rust. However, I don't think it would be this. If the ball chain is stainless steel, could it be that they are tarnished?The wirewool should work if it is tarnish - I used it on an old harmonica that I found the other day... but that is another story  ------------------ Courage is the man who can stop after just one peanut
-------------------- Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut
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Cantus
Gelatinous

Member #464
Reged: 30/07/01
Loc: Down the road
128737
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06/12/01 07:04 PM
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Really? I looked it up in a book. So the book must be wrong.Maybe all books are wrong. Say it isn't so.... After all the upset i had with the TV lying to me.....
-------------------- "I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat " - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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Bendy
member
Member #567
Reged: 29/08/01
Loc: Adelaide, SA, Australia
128738
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08/12/01 12:25 AM
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I hate to burst your bubble Cantus, but believe it or not, not everything you read on the internet is true either! (the bit that I wrote is tho - you have to take my word (?!) for that )
-------------------- Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut
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NYC
Newbie Wrangler

Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
128739
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08/12/01 12:38 AM
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Large gauge ball chain is best for wraps. I resisted for a while but am now a loyal ball chainer.
-------------------- Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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Frenzie
member
Member #95
Reged: 30/01/01
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
128740
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08/12/01 12:54 AM
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The poi are the ones that adamrice has sent around for the relay. They have been used once for fire and have since been stored (wicks in a plastic bag) in Finn's laundry along with the rest of her fire gear.Nothing unusual, perhaps it was lighting up at the beach? salty air maybe? But just strange that none of the otehr poi were effected at all.
-------------------- - Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -
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Cantus
Gelatinous

Member #464
Reged: 30/07/01
Loc: Down the road
128741
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07/12/01 01:46 PM
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Aliens.If anything strange and unusual happens round here there's usually aliens at the root of it. So blame them first before you start looking for logical explainations.
-------------------- "I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat " - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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adamrice
poo-bah

Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
128742
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08/12/01 03:29 AM
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How weird. I wonder if the rust will just come off with a scouring pad, and if so, what condition the surface underneath is in.If you want, I'll send replacement chains--this time I'll send stainless-steel ones.
-------------------- Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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SickpuPpy
Ninja Rockstar!

Member #944
Reged: 27/11/01
Loc: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
128743
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08/12/01 03:08 PM
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Your ball chain rusting is probobly just due to the type of metal. It was probobly made of steel/lead alloy or just regular steel, and then was painted or plated with something that burned off as soon as you lit your wicks. If your chains get tangled or you hit them on some thing this can loosen or knock off any paint or plating letting water get underneith into the metal. Becareful with WD-40, I think it's flamable, but as I don't usually use the stuff I dont know, try keeping them oiled, motor oil will probobly work, but wipe them down really well before lighting your wicks, motor oil will burn too but not very easily,but Probobly the easy answer is to just buy better chains.
-------------------- Jesus helps me trick people.
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CrazyRaverDude
Veteran Member
Member #254
Reged: 30/04/01
Loc: Tampa, FL, USA
128744
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09/12/01 07:58 AM
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blue_flame, I ordered ballchain with my first set of fire poi...I have tried cable as well as made my own home-made regular chains. Out of all of them, the ballchain feels the most fluid. In addition to that, wraps generally dont hurt(unless my quicklink and the loop at the top of the wick pinches my skin). I'd have to say ballchain is the best, and out of everyone that I have let try my ballchain, it seems most like it better than the other alternatives. I'd say buy a set and try em!Cantus, Ya, aliens are usually the source of problems around here too. Especially computer-related problems..damn UFOs flying over..
-------------------- -=ÇrazyRaverÐude=-
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Cantus
Gelatinous

Member #464
Reged: 30/07/01
Loc: Down the road
128745
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09/12/01 10:11 AM
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I was going to share a tale of alien activity but I fear the delectable Flash fire will slap my wrists for drifting off topic so i shall abstain. Er yeah, ball chain. I've had this kind of meteor thing I made out of ball chain a while back and kind of forgot about until this post came up. It's been lying around in a dank musty shed type thing for god knows how long and has suffered no adverse effects whatsoever - Aside from the obligatory cobwebs which are part and parcel with whole shed experience.
-------------------- "I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat " - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean
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blue_flame
member
Member #593
Reged: 06/09/01
Loc: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA
128746
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09/12/01 11:18 AM
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Thanks for helping me out everyone I will definetely try it out...It seems the only problem I may have now is with the aliens stealing my amazing ball-chain poi! Arrrrr, I'll scare em away with my scary growls!  Chris
-------------------- Defy Gravity!
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Tedward
member

Member #1037
Reged: 09/12/01
Loc: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...
128747
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10/12/01 12:33 AM
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If you scrape off the nickle plating, or get the colored versions where the plating can be burnt off, yes, they can rust. The stainless steel does not rust, works better than the candy chain, and polishes back up after they blacken. Another thing to think about is Safe Working Load. Based on the physics of what we do, your poi could require a SWL of up to about 100lbs. If you're using the candy chain, you only see that rating in the very large sizes (#30 or above). You can get the same load in stainless at a #10. Both sizes are adequate for wrapping, but the smaller chain size provides less wind resistance which decreases your stall potential at slow speeds.
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Code128
member
Member #389
Reged: 06/07/01
Loc: Boston, MA USA
128748
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09/12/01 01:59 PM
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Yeah I actually just pulled my POI out of my truck, I keep them in the Tool Box in the bed along with all of my tools. They too had some rust on the balls and the little link pieces between the balls. So Adam if your sending out replacements could you hit me as well? I also have some older chains that I keep in there and they have not shown any rust, although they have discolored a little. Code128 Joshua Bloom
-------------------- ------------------
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N
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adamrice
poo-bah

Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
128749
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10/12/01 07:49 AM
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Tedward: what do you mean by "candy chain"--the anodized aluminum stuff? I agree, that's pretty much unusable for firespinning (I've seen it fall apart just spinning with glowsticks). But #15 nickel-plated steel is rated to 120 lb.
-------------------- Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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Frenzie
member
Member #95
Reged: 30/01/01
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
128750
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11/12/01 12:56 AM
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adamrice: the rust is not too severe, just a bit here and there so i dont think replacement chains are in order. Was just curious as whether this was a common thing. Hopefully the equipment will be passed on this week, getting hard to coordinate everyone in the same place at the same time!
-------------------- - Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -
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CrazyRaverDude
Veteran Member
Member #254
Reged: 30/04/01
Loc: Tampa, FL, USA
128751
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10/12/01 07:46 PM
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Last night, one of my straps completely un-sewed itself in the middle of my performance at Club 1509. I always inspect my gear before I light up and there was no signs of wear. Which lead me to a more thorough inspection of my poi..while looking at my ballchain I noticed some of the holes on the individual balls are showing signs of wear. I'm wondering of all the other people who use ball-chain has anyone ever had a breakage of the ballchain itself? Or has anyone noticed signs of wear? In addition to this, the bronze clamps on the ends of my ballchain that allow me to connect my quicklinks are bending at the sides. I fear eventually they may break from stress. I guess basically my question is of those who use ballchain, where is the stress most noticed, and if anyone has experienced breakage, where was it? thanksPLURR CRD
-------------------- -=ÇrazyRaverÐude=-
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adamrice
poo-bah

Member #30
Reged: 19/12/00
Loc: Austin TX USA
128752
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11/12/01 04:43 AM
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CRD--My own chains show some of what you are describing, I think. Some of the individual balls near the hot end have separated slightly at the seam--not quite enough for me to stick a fingernail in, but enough to be visible. The brass connectors are definitely battered-looking (the bending you see is probably partly due to the original crimping and partly to subsequent tangles and the like), but don't seem in danger of breaking. I've been using my ball-chains for about 10 months, and I can imagine that I'll need to replace them at some point, but for now, they seem to be holding up. If you are seeing little lines radiating away from the holes, I don't think that's caused by wear, exactly--those are an artifact of the manufacturing process (since each ball starts out flat), and are becoming more visible as the plating wears down, though stress may also be making them more visible. But you can see these lines on new chain as well.
-------------------- Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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