MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
335783
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Ive been working to categorize all types of flowers in an attempt to find more. I believe Ive finally finished and have discovered many new ones (to me) along the way. Decided to share what Ive got in an attempt to both educate those who may not be aware of some of them as well as get info on any I may be missing. Heres the breakdown...
There are 4 categories of flowers:
-Basic flowers
-Counter flowers
-Goofy flowers
-Half flowers
Basic flowers are the simplest and usually the first ones people learn. They're just your average flower where the poi and arms are both rotating in the same directional pattern (ie, poi are spinning forward chase/arms are spinning forward chase; and poi are spinning forward butterfly/arms are spinning forward butterfly)
Counter flowers are what Ive been calling anti-spin flowers before all the anti-spin jargon started. You can call them what you want, but in this case, they're counter flowers  They're the ones where your arms rotate opposite (or counter) the direction your poi are spinning (ie your poi are rotating forward chase/your arms are rotating reverse chase; and your poi are rotating forward butterfly while your arms are rotating reverse butterfly)
Goofy is the term Ive come up with to describe flowers where your arms are doing the wrong directional pattern for the way the poi are spinning (ie your poi are doing butterfly but your arms are rotating chase, and vice verce). This forces one poi to always be doing counter spin while the other always does normal.
Half flowers are where your arms only complete half a rotation before going back the way they came forcing the poi to do normal spin one way, then counter spin on the way back.
All of these can be done as a chase or as a butterfly, in split or same time. Its also great to be able to turn all of these 360 and some of them are actually easier that way.
Anyway, gimme some feedback, especially if you have some flower ideas I havent yet thought of.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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garthy
Hybridised
Member #1911
Reged: 22/04/02
Loc: Bristol, England
335842
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22/01/05 09:34 PM
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hMM.. I'm loving flowers at the moment. 
Nix wrote a post on PIP that inspired me alog with the Help of Fluffy Napalm Fariys damn fantasic flowers! 
You can also.....
* isolate
* Pendulum one by stoipping the arm continuing the other then go in to antispin with it.
or changeing from weave arms to butterflyu arms ( or both or one after the other or any combination of sqinging) The ones at the top are hardest as the arms have no give as they are fully streatched out so you have to get your swing correct. There's alot of combinations of this. You can stop the other arm and just spin it while you swing the other or keep it going.
* Strange time. You move your arm when the poi is in line with you arm. If you do Parrellel time the arms move at different points one after the other. It's a bugger to get.
* Quater time arms. so instead of the arms being 180 degrees apart they are 90 degrees apart. Some carful turning is required as there's not enough space to turn.
* Atomic flowers. Keep the poi in the same plane. One arm move around the flat ground plan and one on the wall plane!
* umbrellers: Keeping the poi at right angles to your arms and move your arms about (Not really sure if its a flower?)
* other angle flowers so locking out at 30 degrees or any other angle.
Flowers are great and make you realise how much there is to learn. Antispin is still giving me hassle as bring the poi accross to the other side of your body can get real confusing.
Also airwraps are goo to put in flowers.
Hurah for flowers 
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"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx
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Puresock
Finally free
Member #8776
Reged: 22/06/04
Loc: Sydney, Australia
335925
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23/01/05 05:13 AM
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Half flowers are kind of like pendulums on steroids... aaargh...
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"Take that, math!"
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[Nx?]
Scoiattolo de mare
Member #796
Reged: 05/11/01
Loc: Europe,Scotland,Both
335933
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23/01/05 05:46 AM
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three point flowers, ttt (turning the time) flowers.
2-1 flowers (maybe an eight petal forward and 4 petal counter together)
hybrid, isolations with one hand and flowers with the other, not quite as hard as hybrid longarm one hand and isolation the other.
bah, its all just pointing yer hands about...
T 
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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grasshoppah
HoP is teh suxor.
Member #6220
Reged: 04/11/03
Loc: Tampa, Florida
335968
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23/01/05 08:47 AM
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where could i find a video example of flowers?
i did a search already and came up empty handed.
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Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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NYC
NYC
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
336597
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24/01/05 01:58 PM
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"Nick with Fire".
One of the influential promotors of flowers. And posture in general.
--------------------
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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MillenniuM
Hyperloops suck
Member #5125
Reged: 10/07/03
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24/01/05 08:48 PM
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Written by: grasshoppah
where could i find a video example of flowers?
i did a search already and came up empty handed.
I just posted a video a few days ago, link is in the forums... I do a very simple flower near the end of one of the burns. Can't really see me due to the flame being almost dead at that point, but you can see the pattern.
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spiralx
dirty techno junkie
Member #1989
Reged: 01/05/02
Loc: London, UK
336707
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24/01/05 11:39 PM
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Written by: grasshoppah
where could i find a video example of flowers?
i did a search already and came up empty handed.
As NYC said anything by Nick Woolsey - his site is here
http://www.thevenue.org/firespinning_videos.htm
Dervishly Yers definitely has flowers on it, can't remember about the other one
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"Moo," said the happy cow.
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
336938
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25/01/05 11:19 AM
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Nick With Fire 1 also has flowers, though the ones in Dervishly yers are much nicer and more varied.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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Yuta
member
Member #6811
Reged: 28/02/04
Loc: Japan Tokyo/Miyazaki
336989
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25/01/05 02:16 PM
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http://hourouekaki.sub.jp/HOMURAMAI/mainframe.htm
VIDEO
26.5MB
or
14.9MB
you can find some flowers
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Dunc
PLAY to your heart's content
Member #5526
Reged: 19/08/03
Loc: The Middle lands
338582
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28/01/05 08:37 AM
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wow, what a lovely pile of links!
Thanks guys! Finally I get to see dervishly yers and Yamasita-sans videos are cool too
--------------------
 being a Dad is the best feeling in the world.....ever!
Sorry but there won't be a bouncey castle at play 
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garthy
Hybridised
Member #1911
Reged: 22/04/02
Loc: Bristol, England
363774
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15/03/05 11:54 AM
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A flowery Pendulum
http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3018
--------------------
"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
363802
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15/03/05 12:33 PM
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Nice one, Garthy. Will definately be playin a bit with those!
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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garthy
Hybridised
Member #1911
Reged: 22/04/02
Loc: Bristol, England
367503
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21/03/05 11:01 AM
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Discovered two more types of flowers today (Well they're not on this list and it's nice to keep every thing here)
* Random Flowers ("bah, its all just pointing yer hands about..." - Nx?) - Random, move your arms about like a crazy clock face vary timing / Direction / Antispin . I reckon it probably looks a bit crap but it is good practice
* Full pendulem flowers - just swing the poi and move in time with arm circling
Also now poiinthepark is back up it would probably be good to link to the great flower articles there. http://www.poiinthepark.net/modules/articles/article.php?id=4 ( I'm sure there used to be two there though  )
Hurrah for Flowers!
--------------------
"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx
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NYC
NYC
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
367892
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22/03/05 02:59 AM
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Am I correct that the only thing governing the number of petals in a flower is asthetics? We tend to gravitate towards 4 because they look better no?
If you slowly move your arms (like I used to for behind the head stuff) you can have a 500 petal flower.
Though, you do need to transfer from one side of the body to the other on a beat if you're turning.
Right?
--------------------
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
367898
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22/03/05 03:15 AM
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Yep.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
367900
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22/03/05 03:16 AM
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Written by: NYC
"Nick with Fire".
One of the influential promotors of flowers. And posture in general.
i think he may be the flower daddy to be fair...
nick was the first person to explore flowers properly that i ever saw or heard of.
he certainly was the first person to get antispin working well and is still the only person i've seen that can make it all look so easy.
*bows down*
cole. x
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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garthy
Hybridised
Member #1911
Reged: 22/04/02
Loc: Bristol, England
367917
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22/03/05 03:41 AM
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I think also 4 is easier to get looking correct.
Doing intervals of 36 degrees would be quite hard to get looking right but would give you a nice 10 point flower.
--------------------
"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx
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NYC
NYC
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
367960
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22/03/05 04:28 AM
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Written by: coleman
Written by: NYC
"Nick with Fire".
One of the influential promotors of flowers. And posture in general.
i think he may be the flower daddy to be fair...
nick was the first person to explore flowers properly that i ever saw or heard of.
he certainly was the first person to get antispin working well and is still the only person i've seen that can make it all look so easy.
No no, you forget all those "vampire spinners" that don't show up on film but they're all a million times better than all of us that people make up just to look cool.
Like this one guy I saw back 5 years before I was born spinning fire on a cliff in Thailand. He was doing flowers, isolations and crazy hyperloops. And whatever you guys think of tomorrow, yeah, he was doing some of those too. He was awesome. 
--------------------
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
368003
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22/03/05 05:00 AM
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vampire spinners, like the rabbits at a dog track, are the elusive, fake, and never attained high points which, for the benefit and amusement of our masters, keep us running, thinking and spinning in safe circles.
cole. x
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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Stout
Member
Member #7305
Reged: 12/05/04
Loc: Victoria,Canada
368017
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22/03/05 05:19 AM
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Pendulums in flowers,,,who'd have thunk it? not me, but I'm liking it.
I find this is my new way to end my flowers,,picture this, spinning a normal forward flower, stop with the left hand low and right hand high doing a pendulum. Step forward with the right leg, and put your weight on this leg. Now,,stall the right hand pendulum straight down and beside your calf, bring the left leg forward and kick the stalled poi with the instep of your left foot as you turn 90 degrees to the left,,,pop into the butterfly.
I find a 500 petal flower is a useful training aid, especially when it comes to those " weird" areas, the ones behind you, but for practical purposes, I think both you and your audience might die of boredom if you did this in a performance..Sure would make a nice photograph though..
I'm a 6 petal flower kinda guy, and lately I've been trying to figure out something to interrupt the flower pattern when both my arms are horizontal. I thought stopping for a circle or two and trying to incorporate some kind ow wave that goes from the hand behind me along my arm, through my shoulders, and out along my other arm might do the trick, but I haven't got it down yet, it still feels like I'm being electrocuted. Bending my legs and going low while my arms are horizontal ( doing one circle with my hands ) seems to work ok though,,,,any suggestions??
I can't help wondering about antispin. I can do it ,but I find the only time I do do it is if I'm spinning a normal flower,,,bring my arms vertical, stop my arms for one circle of my hands, and then continue my flower, but with antispin. I't reverses the direction of the whole pattern. I've never seen myself spin so can't help wondering if the whole antispin thing might be over rated. Does it look any different than a normal flower? I mean when done live,, not for photography purposes.
I like the butterfly flower, the one where your arms meet at the top, i find it's a great thing to add in to a low seperated butterfly pattern, sort of a low circles--> butterfly flower--> back to low circles, and I plan on torturing myself with the other, more difficult version described in the PIP article. Do these look any different than a normal flower?
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KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
368177
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22/03/05 08:56 AM
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antispin definately looks different.
If you're not spinning fast enough, the audience will not be able to distinguish the antispin flower shape, but they'll be able to see something "different" in your spinning. Let me try to upload a video without trails...
Also, I've worked out 5 petal antispin, for some reason my arms don't like to do 4 petaled antispin flowers. I think it's because I learned my anti spin flowers with glowsticks, which spin much lighter than regular poi, and thus I don't have rotation points at the 12, 3, 6, 9 times of the clock.
http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1
http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1
--------------------
To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
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fluffy napalm fairy
"The Dropout"
Member #1055
Reged: 12/12/01
Loc: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
368206
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22/03/05 09:31 AM
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mmmmmmmmm got those pendulums today
Still working on Antispin but it's gonna be sooo smooooth when I get there - 3 and 5 points seem easier than 4 though.
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Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
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Gav486
You have 23 seconds to comply!
Member #13699
Reged: 23/10/04
368290
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22/03/05 11:57 AM
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I'd have thought that odd numbers would be trickier, as your arms would have to be less than 180 degrees apart; harder to keep even.
Could be wrong; mebbe the shallower angle is easier to maintain... off to try it...
Yeah.. feels a bit odd with my arms 120 degrees apart. Sort of like my shoulders are hunching.
Or I could just be doing it wrong.
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You cannot trust this boy! His mind has been corrupted by colours, sounds and shapes.
Edited by Gav486 (22/03/05 12:01 PM)
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KaelGotRice
BasuGasuBakuhatsu - because buses may explode...
Member #5231
Reged: 21/07/03
Loc: Angel's Landing, USA
368294
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22/03/05 12:05 PM
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actually your arms are always 180 degrees apart.
the matter is of the timing when the poi heads make a full rotation to point in towards you. If you do this 4 times, at the 12, 3, 6, 9 o'clock positions, then you'll have 4 flowers. If you do it 8 times - 12, 1:30, 3, 4:30, 6, 7:30, 9 ,10:30, back to 12, then you'll have 8 petals. the arms are always pointed in different directions (180 degrees apart)
I do it 5 times. I'm too lazy to do the math.
EDIT- I go indepth here, with instruction videos with glowsticks
http://www.glowsticking.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4423
sorry for plugging, but I don't want to copy/paste all the links and picture information
--------------------
To do: Working on Firedrums 08 video
Some things I missed recording - Yuta looking confused after we asked him to teach us "Hadouken"
Edited by KaelGotRice (22/03/05 12:10 PM)
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