Mynci
Macaque of all trades
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Reged: 27/04/05
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does anyone have 3 staff mills's mess yet? I could do with a couple of pointers as I'm finding it quite tricky  doable but still tricky
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see no evil, hear no evil, speak B*llocks
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bluecat
azuremog
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02/07/07 11:17 PM
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i've had a few rounds. bastls solid.
get better planes. (thanks josh)
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
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02/07/07 11:47 PM
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cheers dude 
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bastl
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03/07/07 12:44 AM
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yeah 3 staff mills mess goes everywhere
i can also perform following patterns which are based on mills mess:
_rubensteins revenge
_mikes mess
_showermills (don´t know appropriate name...)
on the "staff juggling only" vid, i do them all, but just half parts of them, mixed together 
currently i am working on
531 out of mills mess (just got the right side, so fare  )
boston mess 
and if we ever meet again (august  august august) josh and me gonna keep on working on mills mess passing for sure
mynci: are you at play? -as i looks, i am gonna teach a 3 staff mills mess workshop there...
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
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03/07/07 07:22 PM
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 yes, yes I am sweet I can only do a few patterns and I need to improve my consistancy (damn rain stoppit)
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tim_marston
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04/07/07 08:21 PM
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 PLAY 
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
Member #19047
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31/07/07 11:36 PM
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thanks to seb i have that reverse cascade down a bit more practice tonight is required for consistancy, but I'm still struggling on the "antii" snake cascade my wrists just don't want to play 
patterns learnt so far
standard cascade
"french"? cascade (with behind the head flourish)
reverse cascade
shower (only 1 way so far)
time reverse follow (mills mess takeouts)
close but no cigar
antii's cascade
mills mess
3 staff tennis
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Irinus
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01/08/07 01:11 AM
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Tim, where were you? I didn't see you @ Play
For those of you who weren't there, it was - of course - great
Staff juggling:
Seb (bastl) gave a very good staff throwing workshop. It was very focussed on three staff juggling and therefore bypassed a lot of stuff that Ima taught at Uber. I thought it was cool that some people who have never been tempted to learn juggling with balls or clubs want to learn to juggle staves! (though they've got a lot of ball juggling to do first!). The workshop was prefaced by a very good staff-juggling-specific warmup, all of which I've incorporated into my normal warmup. Thank you Sonia! (if that's how you spell it).
Seb also headlined the main show on Saturday night and gave a mindblowing performance mixing contact (almost exclusively fishtail-based, actually, all fishtail based!) and throwing. Both of these sections were equally impressive and I'm looking forward to see him combine the two one day!(throwing fishtails with 3 staves) nudge nudge...
More and more people are getting to grips with passing (mostly chop-shower a la Fenfire) and there were a few unfamiliar faces throwing staves around. A couple of guys seemed to be working pretty hard on their 4 staff passing (not Fens) does anyone know who they were? I never got round to saying hi
So, all in all there seems to be growth in staff juggling both at the basic levels (more people learning) and advanced (I think it’s safe to say that some of the tricks that Bastl did in the main show have never been done on stage before, and even MCP has some throwing in her doubles routine that I first saw at Uber and again at Play).
Unfortunately there was no Ima and Antti is more into the Feisha at the moment, but I look forward to seeing these two throwing again before too long (please!) 
It'd be good if someone who was there for the first couple of days could fill me in on anything that I missed... Right, now that the sun is finally out (for five whole days!), it's a good time to practice.  oh no, four more hours of work to go
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Irinus
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01/08/07 01:22 AM
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Oh, and my 'most improved staff juggler' award (yes, I'm giving out awards now) goes to Mynci. I've never seen you juggle staves before but you kick my ass with those reverse chops! Hopefully see you soon
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glenneroo
professional loser
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01/08/07 01:31 AM
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4 staff passing? weak.
how about passing 6 staffs 'a blazing?
special austrian cookies to whoever can name the two people in this picture (if you were there and know the answer, don't spoil it )
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filmography: glenneroo.org
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Irinus
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01/08/07 01:47 AM
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Glenneroo, we missed you!!! Hope things are better for you now 
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
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01/08/07 02:12 AM
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Written by: Irinus
Oh, and my 'most improved staff juggler' award (yes, I'm giving out awards now) goes to Mynci. I've never seen you juggle staves before but you kick my ass with those reverse chops! Hopefully see you soon
 aww shucks cheers dude, I was just practicing ball patterns with staves and got that. I was a 3 ball juggler about 4 years ago when I picked up a staff now I just want to fit allthose many (yes loads) of patterns into sticks I want to practice staff squeezes (2 staffs catch in same hand at same time) although I think they'll be tough.
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tim_marston
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01/08/07 02:39 AM
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i wasnt at play because i had far to many gigs,this is great for me as ive been trying hard to get loads of gigs,but its a shame i missed the festival.
ive only learnt to juggle properly with balls very recently,i am lot cleaner on the threee and four staff shower than i am with balls for example,to me it seems crazy trying to learn staff patterns with balls or clubs,i can see how it may help a bit but surely the best way to improve your staff juggling is to juggle staffs not balls???
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
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Loc: wombling free...
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01/08/07 03:48 AM
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I think to learn a pattern it is easyier to use balls but I can do some tricks with staffs I can't do with clubs because I use 1.5 spins
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see no evil, hear no evil, speak B*llocks
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glenneroo
professional loser
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01/08/07 03:52 AM
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Written by: Irinus
Glenneroo, we missed you!!! Hope things are better for you now
i missed you all too sooooooo very much i had to stop reading the play thread it was making me cry hehe
and thanks, things are indeed looking up, but only time will tell how it all ends.
lots of to you too
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filmography: glenneroo.org
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glenneroo
professional loser
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01/08/07 03:58 AM
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Written by: tim_marston
bit but surely the best way to improve your staff juggling is to juggle staffs not balls???
i wouldn't be so hasty there. practicing all sorts of other arts helps in many (often unforseeable ways) just as an example, juggling balls helps learn poi and vice-versa. If anything its practicing different types of coordination, muscles and my favorite: tweaking your mind, to get it off the same-ole nothing-but-staff mindset can really be a firestarter for new unique ideas. I just love watching people come back to festivals year after year, having learned something new, and then having merged two arts together to form something totally new and mind-blowing!
facit: it may not be clear how juggling balls will help you juggle staffs, but don't think about it, keep at it and i'm sure there will be many fruits of your labor.
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tim_marston
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01/08/07 08:12 AM
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im sure it will help in an abstract way,im just not sure learing a four ball shower for example will make any direct difference to my four staff shower,at least not as much as spending the time with staffs in my hand if that makes sense?
(big hugs at ya gleneroo)
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glenneroo
professional loser
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01/08/07 08:36 AM
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Written by: tim_marston
im sure it will help in an abstract way,im just not sure learing a four ball shower for example will make any direct difference to my four staff shower,at least not as much as spending the time with staffs in my hand if that makes sense?
(big hugs at ya gleneroo)
sure a good point, i mean more that the time you invest in practicing anything other than your core competency will help your coordination and in general, mucking with your brain will eventually pay off, though if you know "ok i need to get the four staff shower down" then it may very well be better to just hardcore train that until you get it down pat, however, the four ball shower, or any tricks for that matter, 3 or 4 ball or switching between 3 and 4 might help you come up with other ideas for how to use those 3/4 staffs... get my gist?
back atcha bro!
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
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01/08/07 11:43 PM
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I think ball juggling is a good way to learn an actual pattern. I played with some last night and even easy 3 ball stuff is hard with sticks.
I got 5 throws/catches of 3 staff columns last night
not true columns as middle staff stayed in right hand instead of switching but a happy start.
2 outside staffs up similtaneously wicks forward and back, middle staff up on it's own wicks left to right so your in a kind of box, very tricky, think I'll go back to mills's mess although I can still only manage 3 throws, catches comfortably with that the change of dirction still throws me a bit.
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mcp
The Flying Water Muppet
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02/08/07 12:50 AM
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Written by: tim_marston
im sure it will help in an abstract way,im just not sure learing a four ball shower for example will make any direct difference to my four staff shower,at least not as much as spending the time with staffs in my hand if that makes sense?
I'm pretty much sure it will. People have said that the quickest way to learn a face balance is to start with a broomstick, heavily end weighted and gradually work down to a club, and then even smaller.
That is to say: start with something easy to learn and gradually work out small steps towards the desired object. So a progression to sticks might go something like: balls -> clubs -> ring pancakes -> basketballs -> sticks (or cut out rings and basketballs, they were just for size.) Balls teach you to juggle. Clubs teach you how to juggle with spin. The rings and basketballs teach you how to keep a lot of space in your pattern cos your objects are so big.
Working up to something is almost always better than just force learning it. I think. Because:
You build up the muscles you need gradually.
You learn one step at a time, and hence quicker. Cos you don't have to learn everything at once.
You don't learn any bad habits from learning too quickly.
You can feel the pattern with the easy objects, then when you get that same feeling with the larger ones, you know you've learned it, what to strive for.
You spend a lot of time juggling small objects, which is easy on your body, and only a little time transferring the technique to the big ones. Spending a lot of time on the big ones can easily wreck your body.
downsides: no you won't be spending all that time understanding the way staffs throw and catch.
Your hands might get used to lighter objects being caught and hurt when you catch staffs.
Nobody cares about normal juggling, so you might as well juggle something interesting and novel like a fire staff.
errr. oh well, lost my point again. Darn it.
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"the now legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
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bastl
cross-member
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02/08/07 02:03 AM
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some went to the workshop and now ball juggling seems to be the preperation
but i completly agree with glenneroo and meg, both found very good reasons, one more might be that it is so much easier to find space to train balls than staffs so you can train the rhythms or even sequences much more often, than just in your staff training...
but exept that no more to add..and some patterns should just be played with balls..like boston mess
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Mynci
Macaque of all trades
Member #19047
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02/08/07 05:22 AM
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i think you could do boston mess if you make the staffs into a box around you like I tried with columns yesterday and turned, instead of just facing forward, it wouldn't be pretty to start with but you could make it look very technical.
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glenneroo
professional loser
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02/08/07 01:15 PM
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*waiting for tim to come up with a good retort*
mwuahahaha!
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tim_marston
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04/08/07 08:59 PM
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i have only a limited amount of training in any one day,
i am still unconvinced that throwing a four ball,club or ring shower is going to help me improve my four staff
shower more quickly than going outside and throwing my staffs,
practising the three and four club shower seems really daft to me because they spin totally different to clubs???((tim awaits bastls response eagerly))
i do bastl take your point about balls and clubs increasing indoor training time however
megan i agree that i need to build up to the pattern slowly which is why i still spend lots of time on the 2 and 3 staff shower (small mediuum and big) with varied amunt of spins,
i also work small 3 staff shower into 3 up into small three staff shower(pretty damm hard).some people would call this a flash i think
having also consulted a steven ragatz article on the IJDB I am also having the odd attempt a the five staff shower and four ups,aparently when training numbers its recomended to train above as well as below your chosen level of difficulty,this one seems really mad to me but im giving it a go because i have a lot of respect for his work ethic and level of cleanliness,
athough he did slag jago off for doing contact,i geuss he has got he toungue to far up michael motions bum...lol
i would be very interested to hear josh or anntti's thoughts on this matter???do they train patterns with balls or clubs before staffs??
as for injury,i am having lots of massages and physio,i stretch lots before every training session,i rest more between attempts and work on building muscle mass and strength equally on both shouders using press ups and pull up variations to help balance the un-eveness of the shower training i do,
for me its too late to think about reversing the shower,for all beginners i strongly advise learning the shower both ways from begining to avoid to much muscle strain
the last injury prvention idea im brining into the equation is to have some ultra light carbon fibre staffs made,hopefully this should give my shoulder less work to do and also make my path to four staff cleanliness easier because bent staffs are never gonna be as good as straight ones when it comes to juggling.
bastl thanks for all your injury prevention advice especially the massage part,its prooved to be both useful and pleasurable,
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tim_marston
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04/08/07 09:01 PM
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"but you could make it look very technical."
mynci i dont mean to be rude but why would you want a trick to look tecnical,isnt the idea to difficult tricks look easy??
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