The best spinner in the world... and the state of spinning today

once upon a time, when my horizons were small, and the total number of members on hop was less than my currrent member number(aaah the good old days when i went by mineiro ), i harboured a secret(hah!) desire and need to be 'the best spinner in the world'

this year, with organising uber events, travelling the world, and being generally reinspired to spin after a year of jugglefever i have come to the following conclusion:

there will never be a best spinner in the world.

i long ago stopped thinking it would be me but now have stopped thinking it could be anyone.

why?
well. theres a few obvious reasons.
spinning is not competitive, its contemplative. this means you will never be able to judge objectively who is 'better' at spinning. and long may it remain that way.

people have entirely different focuses(foci? focal points? crocuses?). how can you compare RHD to meghan? you can't. simple as that. unless meg spends a year on throws, and antti and tommi spend a year on contact(which, quite scarily, i think they have....). or.. glass and oli. eek! what kind of comparison is that?
and, most importantly, people who have different focuses have got soooooooooo good at the individual sections of what they do that in order to catch up you'd have to give up on another section, allowing some other single minded bugger to totally forge off into the future and blow you away when you look back at what you used to do. some good examples being wibblingmatt, rhd again, meenik , devkev, oli... the list is long and there are so many i have not named.

one of the great things about these people, and many of their contemporaries is the new respect that spinning gains within the performing and specifically object manipulation communities. no longer can a snooty juggler(or diabolist, or staff spinner about poi, etcetc) turn round and say 'huh, poi is not worth my time because i could learn everything in a day' (and beleive me, that is an accurate paraphrase from bristol juggling convention three years ago from a top juggler). it takes time and dedication, understanding and insight, openness and a willingness to share to become a top level spinner.

Some kind of conclusion? hmmm. well, er... i don't really have one, and i suppose i'm opening this up for some kind of discussion here. i don't want replies that say 'xxxxxxxxx is the best'. i want to know how people feel spinning is developing and has changed since you started. i want to know what you respect about people that inspire you, and how you feel that inspiration is good for the community at large. i want to know what you don't like about the new spinning community, and how it has been belittled by its incredible growth.

i also recently rebumped an awesome thread of NYCs about 'the london factor' (sorry, no link, cold fingers) i'd like to hear also what you think makes a successful spinning community and why some places deliver one style as opposed to another... er. that'll do for starters. i need a cup of tea.

i one last thing: I consider it an honour that many of the most innovative and exciting spinners in the world are my friends, and choose to spend some of their time sharing their skills and inspiring me to develop mine. thank you all( i think you know who you are).

Rob

i've got a small edit tho

martial artists and baton twirlers
need i say more?

as for that quote LA, i once thought very differently, and may do so again, but for now, ta

Indeed, nice thread Rob.
From my vantage point (the back deck) I have seen the development of spinning over the last 10 or so years. I have made tea for many of the 'best'. I have watched them drop and get burned and try again and get it, and watched little boys turn into stunning professionals. I have seen people with the most extraordinary levels of talent, grace and dedication barely able to scratch a living, and have been honoured to offer them a clean space a mumsy hug and a place to play. I repatch the grass each winter to prepare for the European exodus seeking summer lawns. Why? Because this is the most inspiring group of people I have ever come across. French grace, English eccentricity, Canadian sweetness Aussie sweat or American flash, it all warms my heart. My favorite thing of all, is that total beginners can play right next to 'the best' and everyone is making sense in their own circle. Lovin it.

This thread is made of truth and love.

Keep spinning peoples

I respect on peple that ispire me, their willing to teach, the opennes as way to develop yourself.

Community is for me, sharing, helping each other. Showing new things, making Poi better, family.

I mede a list what I'd like to seee in the future:

Perforamce - As way to show spinning to public.

Workshop - As way to show how easy it can be to public.

School - To give a educational and livestyle value.

Shop - We sell staff, but where are books?

Books - I made a list of the known, but still they are missing in shelves. The reason is visuality, that why encyclopedia with images, may better electronic book with videoloop could be very helpfull(wikimedia, Omnimodus).

Videos - Those with perforrmance quality, mostly shared now as single pieces, but the idea of DVD is still present (sphercular DVD), workshops can be on tape too.

Center - Where one can come and:

-can make own spinning pro.
-can practise inside
-can practise outside
-can sit in chair and discuss eye to eye.
-can sleep after long time traveling
-can get food and drink

Boad - HomeofPoi, Spherculism, Soton and others for international discussion.

Meetinks - Country-side and international.

InterPoi - Sharing cross countries, inter-community-paths, coutry spinn assistence on-line, help-line.


:R

London thread.

ok, let me be the party-pooper but I say there is a way to find out who is the best spinner in the world

just gather the most advanced and talented spinners
have an audience of about 2000 people
and then let them rate the different performances
and - wohoo - you WILL have a winner, mo matter how close the decision is

but thats only one definition of best, as rob sai different spinners have different styles, doing that would be like asking which is a better computer, a chair or a sofa (ok bad analogy). basically what i'm trying to say is you cant compare two differnt styles and then pick the best as alhogh they have similarities they are also very different.

Also thanks for making what should be an awesome thread.

as i haven't been spinning very long i hven't seen it change much however from what i have seen it seems very laid back in most cases, i am much more interested in having a good time, sharing what i know with others and relaxing than i am in being a "better" spinner than someone else

yoni but this is the only way to (quote) "judge objectively "

and to be objective in general you have to collet as many subjective impressions as possible!

edit:
recent example : the Oscar awards

a couple of people chose the winner for one category although the movies are completely different


the average of opinions of different people is what I call objectivity

thus these opinions determine that one specific movie is the best one concerning soundtrack

argh hard to explain tell me if anything is still obscure

but surely no matter how many seperate judges you have it wont matter if your trying to judge two different people doing different things on the same thing.

of course you do. you do it everyday.
if you see someone playing jazz with his trumpet and someone playing classics, you might say "I prefer the jazzish music"
this does not mean that you denounce the other style but you have a favourite

so if the people had to decide whether Yoni or Duvan is the world's best spinner -> each individuum would chose his favourite style and I think that the average of these decisions is the objective point of view on the world's best spinner

but that would not be deciding the best, that would just be your personal preference. i may prefer the piece of jazz but for the very reason it is different you cannot decide that it is better than the classical piece. and this goes for the same with the spinning, one particular person may impress by being more impressive to the crowd, however another person may excell in a completely other area of spinnig, which is nowhere near as impressive but is still just as much a justified area of spinning, so it would become more a contest between which styles are prefered and not who is best

If I prefer jazz -> then jazz is better in my opinion than classic
If I prefer Yoni's spinning style -> then I think he's better than
Duvan
If I find something better than the other thing I have a personal preference.

Tell me how to make a decision without personal preference.
Once people elect Tony Blair they do it because they think he is the best. Some people might be annoyed about this election but the majority of the Britons did their choice. ( = democracy )
Ermm... it's hard to tell you exactly what I mean

*insert small thread derailing complaint here*

Poi shouldnt become something about who's "the best" that's not what matters to this community. Fire spinning is an art, and I believe this art is appreciated better without many of the bad vibes of rigorous competition, and who's better than who.

Written by:

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My favorite thing of all, is that total beginners can play right next to 'the best' and everyone is making sense in their own circle. Lovin it.

---

Also my favorite thing, being able to spin right next to someone you may have idolized for years, and having it all make sense can be one of the best spinning experiences you'll ever have.

Duvan: are you trying to say that the best spinner in the world is the one whose style is most appealing to the most people?

That would mean that the best move in the world, is the 3 beat weave, spun REALLY fast?

Nice one Guy

exactly angel, you got it

IMHO best in the world = the world's darling
get that equation ?

I don't know if the best move is a 3beat weave muy rapido, depends on how you present tricks. If I show people knowing nothing about poi nice isolations they find it the most astonishing trick they've ever seen with poi


Of course I want to provoke poi spinners out there. They all say "competition does not matter" but in fact competition is very important for the progress of some peoples' poi skill. I don't care about competition anymore since I achieved my personal poi-goals

Duvan: ahh yes but on different levels I think:

there is competition with your local spinners like, 'who can learn BTB waistwraps first?' but then I'm not looking to compete on with people on an international level, it's just a bit of fun between friends, and it pushes us to keep up with each other.

Sometimes one of my friends will pull out some totally amazing move that will make me stop and think 'cool, I'd really like to learn that' and vice versa.

It's never ever been, and ever will be, 'my style is better than yours'. I just know what I like, and that's ultimately what I aim to produce with my spinning, although I tend to pick up a lot of stuff that I consider less aesthetic and more interesting along the way. Until it suddenly makes sense in the wider context and slots into your spinning like a missing piece in a jigsaw. Then it becomes aesthetic

But aesthetics differ from person to person. Some people are obsessed by high beat weaves and moves, personally, I'm not so keen. So that is not part of my aesthetic poi goal. But there are people that use them to spin really nicely. So at the end of the day, aesthetics must be subjective rather than objective.