A History of the Fire Arts

Greetings kindred spirits. I am reaching out to the Home of Poi community for help. I am writting a book on "The History of the Fire Arts" which will be an all inclusive understanding and appreciation of those who create, perform, build, and teach everything and anything that pertains to the fire arts. I am presently on the chapter that deals with the fire staff. I am familiar with the Polinesian culture that started 'fire knife' dancing in the mid thirties from Samoa that eventually made it's way to Fiji, Tahiti, New Zealand and, finally, Hawaii. I am also aware of fire staff spinning in India that began in the '60's. I have also heard stories of some forms of fire staff spinning in South America and even in Africa, but not yet confirmed. The informaton that I am seeking now is; who are the people responsible for inspiring the multitudes of 'white' people world wide to take up the fire staff. It appears to have begun in Australia in the late 80's or early 90's. If this is true, would someone be so kind as to direct me to anyone who might know who these people are. Their names, addresses, e-mail , websites; I'll take anything. If anyone should also know of any persons who were fire staff performing even earlier than the late 80's that was not bound to, or apart of, any ethnic identity, PLEASE let me know. To make this real simple, folks, I am looking for the first white people who wanted to adopt, take on, another cultures ethnic fire ritual and identity and ask them; why?
Someone knows and I really could use the info. Blessings to you all, and I hope to hear from you soon. Peace, Historian

www.robertheart.com

Wasn't it actually validated by someone that he did in fact bring it to Australia?

It's not what you're asking for but if you want to know more about pois proliferation I may have something usefull for you...

nah man u have it all wrong he invented staff

I think your going to have a problem pin pointing someone as the "father" of what we do now. Staff spinning / object manipulation has been around forever (as in since we began picking up sticks to use for weapons). What we do is largely built off of that. Now you may find people like Mr. Hart who claim that they invented the art, or were the first to do it, or whatever, but validating those claims is going to be a problem.

As for putting fire into the equation, again, this was a culturally based thing for a long time. Who was the first person who saw someone lighting the ends of a stick on fire and spinning it around and said "I can do that"? I really don't think there is a first person we can really point to (Unless you want to really consider Mr. Hart, whose claims have been the subject of very little debate... he is wrong). Rather it was a cultural crossover. People hear about it and realize that they already know how to do it from flag-core, or martial arts, but are just adding something new - fire. But other than Mr Hart, I can think of no one who actually claims to have started everything.

It seems to be the consensus opinion among many of the staffers here anyway, that there was no beginning point to speak of of the art's progression into what we do. Further, you'll probably find a good deal of... disagreement between the cultural peoples who "began" the fire arts (knife dancers, Maori dancers, etc.) and us. What we do is a huge extension and culmination of these basic fire dancing arts which have GREAT cultural value, and a good deal of other arts (martial arts, yo-yo perhaps, etc. etc.). I would almost say that we are not partaking in the "fire rituals" of other cultures as you say (though Im sure others would argue against that), but are inventing our own brand of fire performance based off of a great number of other arts and influences than simply these individual cultures.

As such, it's going to be very hard if not impossible to point to a single individual or group that began the craze if you will. Rather, I think, you'd have to point out that the art of object manipulation was combined with the art of fire performance at a cultural integration level, not at a single point of interaction. The underlying "art" was already there. The disemination of the idea of lighting it on fire was an addition to, rather than a beginning to, that art.

Yep.

indeedy

*more unspecified words of agreement*

and nodding

Lots of nodding.

So soon such nice replys. Thanks! I hope to meet ya'll somewhere over the rainbow someday. Well, I have gone to www.robertheart.com. Nothing there. Any other possible leads?
How do I contact the person that validates Mr. Heart's claim, DeepSoulSheep? Also, I would love to hear anything that you might have on the early embrace of the poi. That subject will be quite an extensive chapter in my book. A lot of poi lovers out there.
i8beefy2, wow! A philosopher indeed! I agree that I have a challenge before me that may indeed be unattainable. However, I do have good cause to persue this issue on the merit of it's significance. I would LOVE to know who was the first person to take apart girls rollar skates, nail them to a 2x4 board, and become the first person to skateboard. Or the first person to take a flat piece of wood and stand up on it in the surf. We'll never know, for sadly, communication tech. wasn't what it is today. There is something fascinating about anyone who is willing to face the critical opinions of others, good and BAD, in attempting to be seen as the 'first one'. Ten's, possible hundred's, of thousands of white people world wide have seen firestaff performers since the 1930's, especially in Hawaii where it has been a daily occurance for the tourists, via the luau party, for a very long time. Why wasn't it embraced back then? Why now? What did it take for white people to finally look at fire staff performing and say, "Hey, I want to do that! And I don't care of the danger to my person, or of the possible ridicule that I might recieve from my friends or family", when whites have been looking at it for such a long time and were not interested. Another example, hasn't it even been apart of the New Zealand Maori for decades?, and yet, there seems to be no mention of any white New Zealand firestaff spinners before 1992. How odd? I have a theory. I'll share mine after you have shared yours. This is really becoming interesting for me and my book. Peace ya'll

I don't think the advance of spinning is anything to do with the race or colour of the person, but a shift in social attitudes.

Thanks in part to the internet and the vast amount of information now available, we are finding out more about each other and realising our similarities, as opposed to only celebrating our differences.

Also, (and perhaps because of the internet and greater ethnic diversity in our own countries) the possibilities for self-expression seem much more tolerated and appreciated than in years past.

There is also a base need to feel part of a group (a basic human characteristic).
Most spinners would consider themselves rather odd - but in fact, what makes them 'odd' is a rare openness and willingness to be different in public.

Despite the fact that self-expression is more tolerated, the majority of people (I think) still find it difficult to express themselves in public. Spinners are people who find happiness in spinning some balls on a piece of string, or twirling a staff. They have managed to get over that awkwardness and shyness to find the confidence to say 'this is what I do, either you like it, or you don't'.

More and more people are responding to that confidence - and joining in.

Ermmm....

Hope that made sense

Hi just to add my 2 cents...
As far as I can tell...Robert Heart was one of the original staffers and double staffers in Oz.
Speaking to 3 old timers they all seem to validate this story. NOT that he invented it, but simply that he brought a higher level of technical ability to Oz and the scene flourished directly from his time there. Apparently he was at a Confest way back int he day and kicked it all off there.
Historian of fire arts...e-mail me: knoxdave*at*yahoo*dot*com and I'll see if I can put you in touch with one of the old timers who can put you in touch with Mr Heart.
Respect.
Dave

Confest has been around since 1970's
a bit about the Heart can be read here:
http://www.lasvegastalentregistry.com/Registry/other/Misc/Robert%20Heart/robertheart.htm

confest must be an important influence in australian fwirlage. it certainly has many cross-pollination of styles as a regular coming together of pyromaniac hippies
during the 80's, confest's fire dimmed and there were only once a year, some years missed entirely.

also, confestconfestconfestconfestconfestconfestconfestconfestconfestconfestconfest

Yeay confest, yeay robert heart!

I was fire dancing in the early 1980's. Its where my journey began... i dont make such brave claims as mister Heart though (and doubt im any where near as good) I did pass through Australia on my way home tho but dont profess to be the "person who brough fire to NZ" because I wasnt. * It was my grandfather * he use to make our staves And he was white, dose that count :P

A friend's grandmother was teaching fire poi and performing in the 1950's throughout NZ, America and around the globe. Unfortunately i doubt she's white enough to help you or myself either as we are all proud brown Maori.

Its saddens me that you have to be white for your fire culture to count. I find that frequently. In saying that, polynesian culture is all word of mouth so there are no books to base theory on. Fortunatly, we usually believe what others of our own race tell us, especially about their grandmothers :P

Most spinners dont worry about colour so much...we usually only care if they are nice people and good spinners. Because there are so many different origins of fire spread accross many cultures. And in NZ it tends to be heavly imbedded in traditional poi and rakau, im guessing by the amount of threads like this, that its different around the world I try to have respect for all of them. And i totally argee with I8beefy.

All I can do is to continue to try to keep the original spirit alive through my dance and influence... Origin can begin as simply as pulling a stick from a fire and waving it around...or having it passed down from the gods (or your gafer)

thanks for sharing, dragon7, much respect to the path u have travelled, are still travelling!!

Great thread, this has been an interest of mine for a while. I for one have wondered how far back it goes in the East Asia areas, like China, etc. and if there were ever any use of fire with martial arts, etc.

I only know one little piece of the puzzle, mostly pertaining to the integration of fire poi, staff, breathing, etc. with dance and performance art, (not about the circus stuff or martial stuff), from about 93 or 94, in Central and North America. IOW the "white folks" There are doubtless other stories in the U.S to tell, I just know the stories of the people I've met... I've met and befriended a very major percentage (i think) of the fire art performers here in the U.S. who've been around for more than 6 years, or at least met friends of them. So it's a big world though, this can't be taken as law. Anyways as far as I know, performers began to spread the fire arts around after traveling to Thailand, Hawaii, New Zealand, etc. It really picked up in the late 80's early 90's, i say "picked up" but we're talking relatively here. It spread from there to South and Central America, just people busking on the beach and such (like robert heart). We picked it up around '93, from gypsy traveler type friends of ours, we're the gypsy type. We were already performing together and were traveling with it within a year, all over the west coast and halfway up the E. coast . Most of the shows we were doing were at raves, electronic music festivals, and parties that we put together ourselves (dj's/ fire performance/ceremonial dance gatherings in the woods basically) and I think that's how it spread through the U.S., from other people doing basically that as well. lots of people in the dance communities spread it around, both glostricking and poi, and luckily it caught on before the commercialisation of the dance culture set in, and the heavy irresponsible drug abuse by youth and lack of responsible guidance gave a compelling argument for the crackdown on all nonsanctioned dance gatherings. around 98/99 or so there was a big surge as the people performing in their own areas of the U.S. spread it out further into their communities.

Hi mr historian

I first saw fire twirling at ConFest 94/95, in Australia. It seemed new, and only a handfull of performers/dancers were doing it. Fire chains were rare until about 2000, and then they became popular as poi.

I started with staff, but now I do poi and swings torches. The use of fire in Indian club swinging goes back to at least 1908, because WJ Schatz gives instructions on fire torches in his Club Swinging book published that year. Apparently, wands and poles were also popular back then, so there might be a connection with other props.

You could also search HOP, becauses there a number of good threads on the history of fire twirling.

Blessings to all cursed people.
The decision to become a part of this community (HOP) is becoming very clear to me early on, to be one of my best ideas ever. . The information and opinions that I am receiving are proving to be most helpful and enlightening, much to the delight of myself and my publisher. I feel, however, that I need to explain myself a bit better, so as to curtail any misunderstandings of my intentions, or any confusion to my meanings.

The book that I am writing has already been approved by a major publishing house. (gotta wear shades). There are certain rules, however, that have to be strictly enforced.
- Proof of claims. (Certificates, newspaper/magazine clippings,
Dated photos, marquee posters, recorded broadcasts,
REPUTABLE talent/entertainment/booking agencies,
And/or a whole bunch of people verifying the claim.
- Every proven fact must be dated in a chronological order with
Geographic location.
- All interviews will be conducted in person, (I fly to you or we fly
You to us), or by video phone.
- All materials supplied MUST HAVE a signed release.
- All video must be dated or have proof within it's content.
ENOUGH! I'm sure ya'll get the picture by now. This is a major project with a nice budget. If you make a significant contribution to the creation of this book, (interview, essay, photos, etc.), you will be paid and placed in the bibliography/reference area for future generations to curse you. This book will have an amazing amount of photographs in it. Why not yours?

I have already expressed what the books content will be on, but I feel that a little more clarity needs to be rendered on certain issues that I will be discussing in the book in order to prevent any accusations of '-ism's', (sexISM, raceISM, ageISM, etc.)

I'm sure that you have already noticed my reference to 'white people' in my topic. I have an obligation to tell the truth, even if the truth should make some people uncomfortable. Facts make up the truth, and the truth shall set us free. There is nothing greater than freedom. So I shall not be afraid to present the facts to all of you when they make themselves known. Agreed?

It is a FACT that the vast majority of people logged into HOP are white, maybe as much as 99%.
It is a FACT that 99% of all of the people that attend BurningMan (40,000), and who perform in the fire conclave (over 600), for the past 4 years, are white. This phenomenon is a 'white baby' that was born somewhere in the 80's, (info so far), and I want to go back to that point where the sperm of the father, (Polynesian fireknife and poi), entered the egg of the mother,(desire by white people to have their own 'toy' identity, ie. Frisbee, hula hoop, yo-yo, etc.), and created the first complete cell that began to divide. I want to interview that first cell! That first cell is the "missing link" that ties current man to his ape forefathers...ahhhh...oh hell, you know where I am going with this. I don't know if it's this Heart guy, or someone before him, but I WILL interview that first cell, damn it! Take a good look around you people and see what this one cell has caused. This cell needs a good cursing by all of us.

There is nothing sadder than one who will do nothing, for he feels that what he does, will be but a little. There is nothing grander than one who does as much as he can, knowing that what he does, is but a little. Peace in our Hearts