polarity
Drunken Poi Master
Member #19715
Reged: 16/05/05
Loc: on the wrong planet
417273
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Few ideas/points,
Get a wiki going alongside the forums, so that a faq can be made from stuff in threads, and make the wiki the first place to goto for answers to questions.
Get more moderators to keep things tidy, and a few more posting rules (accurate thread titles being an obvious one). Then someone can ask a direct question, be redirected to the original thread / wiki page, and have the new thread deleted. There's plenty of people here who can be trusted to be mods.
Searches are not accurate enough to be relied upon, even with a complex search engine like google can't find simple things, and the search functions in forums are pi$$ poor by comparison, so finding combinations of words and phrases is difficult.
I've never seen this particular BB software used anywhere else, and it appears to have some annoying things missing that are in the better known ones (phpbb and vbb), like the ability to lock or redirect threads to stop further posting.
I'm not getting at the moderators, they've put together an incedible place to meet people. It's just that this forum is so popular it may need some extra help running it. 6 mods for ~20,000 users is kind of crazy.
I guess you use what you're familiar with / can modify to your needs easily / what the server owners provide though.
Whatever... I don't know anything. I'm just a Unix geek who wants to admin webservers for a living.
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You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
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Fine_Rabid_Dog
Guitar Hero
Member #7400
Reged: 26/05/04
Loc: They seek him here, they seek ...
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25/05/05 05:46 AM
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Written by: polarity
like the ability to lock or redirect threads to stop further posting
loads of posts get locked or redirected. It happens quite a lot due to people not doing searches, posting offensive/stupid things, or posting things in the wrong place.
Written by: the Rules - What are Moderators?
What a moderator does
They can move a topic if it is deemed to be in the wrong forum and email the owner of the topic of its new location.
They can edit or delete posts that are not suitable to display on these forums( see list ). They should also refer you to these pages should the need arise.
They can also close threads and redirect people to previous threads.
Help you if you have a problem
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The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
Edited by Fine_Rabid_Dog (25/05/05 06:45 AM)
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polarity
Drunken Poi Master
Member #19715
Reged: 16/05/05
Loc: on the wrong planet
417400
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25/05/05 09:28 AM
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Still needs more moderators, preferably people who are on a lot, and in different time zones.
I guess the best idea would be to nominate different groups of moderators for each forum. There's loads of people who could do a good job, and having more people to keep the place tidy would make it easier to keep the duplicate subjects down.
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You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
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Pele
the henna lady
Member #20
Reged: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
417469
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25/05/05 11:13 AM
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We've tried the more moderator things. It hasn't work. Too many cooks spoil the stew type deal.
I do lock and redirect threads...several in the past week in fact (most of them dealing with SW: Ep 3  ). So do the other mods.
If there is a duplicate, let us know and we will take care of it. Easy as pie. That's what the whistle is. We don't need more mods. We need more people willing to push that whistle to help us so we can help to make this a better place.
Accurate thread titles *is* a rule. We have requested it for *years* and even the oldest skool members don't follow it all the time.
BTW, there are only 20,000 members listed because everyone who registers to purchase from the shop has an account automatically set up. That does not mean there are 20,000 people using the bb. AND, there are *alot* of people listed under multiple names, from before we ended that game , and many who are no longer here at all and haven't been for awhile. That number is not an active member number, it is simply a registered member number.
We are from all different time zones. We tend to each monitor different threads and sections (for example: I stay out of Poi Moves quite a bit because I get frustrated and aggrivated in there). It's what that whole "Alert the mod" thing is for, to help us.
Please don't be afraid to use it.
It does not make more work for us. Not using it makes more work for us.
And I agree the search function is imperfect. Yup. Sometimes it sucks and hurts to go through. Kinks and growing pains.
However, and I hate to say this because it is a good idea, if people are going to look at a list of thread topics, see that there are already 3 in exsistence about a topic and still proceed to post another thread on it do you really think they are going to check a sticky thread about common searches?
I don't.
Not when we have it in the rules when you sign up to search, and the first post is a repeat that someone puts up.
Not when people are still not putting accurate titles up.
Not when people are still posting things in the completely wrong forum and they know it! (then saying.."Oh, a mod will fix it so I don't care")
Not when there actually are FAQ's and articles available and people will still not read them, or worse, read them and not learn a darn thing so they will ask a question clearly answered in the aforementioned.
Sorry to be the pessimist here, because it is a great idea, but I simply don't see it working.
However, if someone wants to take the time, to go through all the threads, delete the old ones and compile the information to prove me wrong...I wouldn't stop him/her!  
Love n Peace 
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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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linden rathen
man in a hat and owner of Tinklepants
Member #17322
Reged: 02/03/05
Loc: UK
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25/05/05 12:10 PM
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im fairly new and i get quickly frustrated when i search (mainly for moves) and end up with 90% of the results being from the "i just learnt a new move" thread rather than more obsucre threads that deal with doing the actual move
perhaps a regular purging of the "ive learnt a new move" thread? i dont think many people read that far back on it
In a similar way maybe have a "what im learning" thread so that people can post what they're working on at the moment and get replies from people willing to help?
not sure if it would work as well due to repeats and such but is an idea...
Out of interest could a sticky thread with search tips be made available for those of us who do search? the search tips would be really good to have as a list of all the little bits of code that can be used to make google more powerful for those of us who dont know how to.
edit ok having said that i have found the advanced search woot - instead of just lobbing in the search box at the top there the search button in the menu bar that takes you to an advanced search panal - why was this not mentioned? or have i missed that? :P
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legless but smiling
"im a starfish!" - patrick the starfish
i must not say the "p" or the "c" word, i must not say the "p" or the "c" word......
product of a twisted mind
Kyrian "i can't move shoes to the beach"
Edited by linden_rathen (25/05/05 12:15 PM)
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polarity
Drunken Poi Master
Member #19715
Reged: 16/05/05
Loc: on the wrong planet
417526
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25/05/05 12:45 PM
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tips for better google searches:
- egg
will find egg, eggs, egging and other variations
- +eggs
will find eggs but not egg or other variations
- eggs ham
will find pages containing just eggs, just ham, or both eggs and ham
- +eggs +ham
will only find pages containing both eggs and ham
- +"eggs and ham"
will only find pages containing the phrase "eggs and ham"
- "eggs and ham"
will find pages containing the phrase "eggs and ham" and variations of those word in the same order
- +eggs +ham -bacon
will find the same as 4. above, but excluding those pages with the word bacon in them
- +eggs +ham site:.uk
will find the same as 4. above, but only on websites that end .uk (useful for finding companies in the UK). You can also use something like site:.eggsandham.co.uk to search just the eggsandham.co.uk website.
edit Doh! email version doesn't include edits. Anyway, a lot of people don't notice the Advanced search button, so it might help to put these somewhere obvious.
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You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
Edited by polarity (25/05/05 12:52 PM)
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Valura
mumma hen
Member #1939
Reged: 25/04/02
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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25/05/05 03:37 PM
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polarity you rock... those are great tips...
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TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
418593
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26/05/05 10:56 PM
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i can't remember the last time i saw a mod reply to a duplicate post or give directions to help a newbie search for what they required - very possibly there is loads of this going on behind the scenes but as far as i can tell, most of that kind of moderation is left up to the members.
if there is loads of mod intervention that we can't see, on top of all of us lot saying 'do a durbs' and providing links to old threads, that means this is a even bigger problem than it looks - that only adds to the argument for the need for a 'common thread' article 
it would mean that instead of waiting for kind members to reply to a duplicate post with directions to threads that already exist and leaving that duplicate thread to further clog up the board with useless search results (as happens at the moment), instead we could just click the report post button and a mod could then delete the thread and privately direct the person to the appropriate links in the 'common thread' article.
need a volunteer?
i'd be more than happy to build on what simian has done in poi moves and write a common thread article for each forum.
but like i said, i'm not going to do a load of work if the attitude of the site admin is "nice idea but it'll never work - just keep pressing the button."
but for now, that is what i shall start doing 
cole. x
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"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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simian
monkey
Member #3268
Reged: 11/10/02
Loc: London
418596
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26/05/05 10:57 PM
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"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
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26/05/05 11:02 PM
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You the man. As I have previously stated.
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My other car is imaginary - I have a van
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linden rathen
man in a hat and owner of Tinklepants
Member #17322
Reged: 02/03/05
Loc: UK
418689
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27/05/05 12:12 AM
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Thanks polarity
maybe instead of moving the advanced search button just label it advanced search? maybe with a link below the search bar as well?
perhaps it would be helpful if we try and bump the more common threads (maybe using the key words of the thread rather than bump) so that when searches are run they turn up quicker? just a thought :P
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legless but smiling
"im a starfish!" - patrick the starfish
i must not say the "p" or the "c" word, i must not say the "p" or the "c" word......
product of a twisted mind
Kyrian "i can't move shoes to the beach"
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NYC
Newbie Wrangler
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
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27/05/05 12:43 AM
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It seems like we're asking for a lot.
Maybe, rather than lumping it all on the Mods, we could have some "Submoderator/Librarian" type person with no actual Mod power but who could post links and stear newbies in the right direction.
I always feel a bit awkward posting things like that because I feel that it's not my place. But if someone decided to step up and be dubbed a 'newbie wrangler' then they could do it with out feeling guilty.
As a side note, I think it's really strange that the sentiment of this thread is "We need more moderation" yet more often than not, when the mods do step in they get called 'facist' and... wait... what was that good one that Flash got called. "Blood sucking" something or other.
I'd be sad to see the mods take on a more active role and then be shouted at for being 'Nazis' by people simultaneously insulting the mods and the plight of the Jews killed in the holocaust.
But then again, that's pretty much 99% of the internet anyway.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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flid
blank
Member #2889
Reged: 27/08/02
Loc: Warwickshire
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27/05/05 01:01 AM
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The most ironic thing is that I've already pointed out that this is a duplicate thread, and no one seems to care........
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Dr_Birgit
Doctor of Poisons
Member #16453
Reged: 27/01/05
Loc: Bristol
418763
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27/05/05 01:23 AM
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hihihi... proves the point, doesn't it 
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"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
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NYC
Newbie Wrangler
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
418803
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27/05/05 02:14 AM
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Written by: flid
The most ironic thing is that I've already pointed out that this is a duplicate thread, and no one seems to care........
I don't think it's started out as a reduntant thread. Valura was reacting to "recent" problems she saw.
Besides, I like Mr. Chutney's wording in another post...
Written by:
sorry if a cross post has occurred.
So it's not a duplicate post, it's just a 'crosspost'. It sounds so much cooler. 
But yes, the irony is there.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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flid
blank
Member #2889
Reged: 27/08/02
Loc: Warwickshire
418812
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27/05/05 02:29 AM
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a crosspost is where you post simultaneously the exact same message to 2 boards/forums/newsgroups
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ado-p
Ninjaneer
Member #7315
Reged: 13/05/04
Loc: Galway/Ireland
418815
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27/05/05 02:36 AM
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i thought it was the diagonal bit that runs across a wooden gate?
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I spent my life learning to walk along on this big ball. Then I realised I couldn't fall off.
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NYC
Newbie Wrangler
Member #552
Reged: 26/08/01
Loc: NYC, NY, USA
418825
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27/05/05 02:50 AM
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Cole bumped up this thread in Poi Moves by Simian:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...ll/fpart/1/vc/1
It's a perfect example of someone playing the part of 'librarian' without needing any Mod powers.
Well done.
--------------------
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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27/05/05 02:58 AM
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simian's thread is a great example - unless we bump it every few days, it is quickly forgotten about.
i said that on the last page - its disappointing that work like that goes to waste because it is left up to the members to sort out themselves.
i don't think we are asking for much at all - i certainly wasn't asking the mods to do any more work
all i was asking for was an easy-to-point-to permanent and updatable article containing links to commonly duplicated threads (i've even offered to help write it!).
the main advantage being that duplicate threads could be deleted immediately rather than pseudo-moderated by friendly hoppers with knowledge of past threads (and then simply left to clog up the board).
the point is not that this would prevent duplicate threads, but it would give the mods the ability to say "we will delete this duplicate thread and point the author to the links article".
i agree that the search function works fine - its the multitude of similarly named posts about popular subjects that renders it useless.
if you don't perceive this as a problem i recommend that you try searching for help on say, a move you don't know the name of in poi moves, and see how far you get...
it makes me sad that the main point of the board (was) to share moves and techniques, but nowdays the moves section is almost impossible to find good information in, unless you know what is there already...
still, i'm not going to push any more for this - if the idea is not considered to be worth undertaking by the site admin then that is that and i accept it.
:apathysmiley:
cole. x
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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Pele
the henna lady
Member #20
Reged: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
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27/05/05 03:19 AM
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Let's see...Coleman...anytime anyone questions the mods we come in and say..yes, we do craploads more than you will ever know. To the point where I am tired of saying it. And that is the point, you don't need to know.
So, let's see...if all the locking-redirecting that is done publically goes unnoticed, and the fact that I have personally addressed several newbies, mostly through PM so as to avoid any feeling of public persecution is concidered doing nothing, then fine..I do nothing. And that is the small end of what goes on.
Actually...I have to say that it isn't the thread that is redundant, because this one seemed to go further than the other, which is why it is left open. Simply because a topic is repetitive does not always mean it will be shut down. There are alot of factors that go into determining what gets shut, moved, recycled or deleted altogether, which is why we ask for an alert and then decide the course of action.
And because I am a person, with feelings, frustrations and a busy life outside of HoP, I am going to take a deep breath and say this as nicely as possible...
I am really quite sick of this.
A few months ago I was getting PM's and emails telling me to die, calling me names and both Flash Fire and I came under fire publically for doing our jobs here, which we do out of love and voluntarily. Nothing since has changed...nothing, except that most of the member bickering has died down, and now we are not doing enough? Suddenly because you don't take notice, of us we are not doing our job? Suddenly others know what we do better than we, who created the jobs and rules? Perhaps you don't notice because we are doing our jobs well.
This is, overall, one of the most peaceful kingdoms on the net, and you know what, I can honestly say it isn't always because our members just happen to be that way. Keep that in mind the next time you decide to say we are not doing our jobs. I am beginning to feel that when it has been peacable too long then someone needs to create issues...and it tends gets pointed at the mods.
Give me a break.
Oh, and I know what will be coming next..."Pele, I think you are over-reacting..I didn't mean..." But you know what? Look at the many posts above this one, all of which are, quite frankly, insulting to what we do. Without understanding of all of what goes into things, and you shouldn't have to which is why the mods are here, many of you have passed a judgement that we are not doing our job by allowing this thread to stay open or because other members beat us to the punch more often than not....and that is bullcrap.
No, I assure you that my tone in all this is quite firm and calm, and I am not over reacting.
And how often do you see anyone "wait for a kind member"? More often than not, a member takes care of it long before a mod has seen the thread. We never asked people to do this, you simply do, and we appreciate it but do not then use it against us to accuse us of not doing our jobs.
Yes, there is always tweaking that needs to be done, and I even admitted the search function can be a pain. Yup.
Thank Polarity for the tips...I think that itself should be made into it's own sticky post at the top of each forum, if only to remind me of the many ways to use it
If you want some kind of cluster thread Cole, fine, have fun. But I am telling you what I have noticed over the past several years of working here...newbies will continue to ask, not just out of naivete and curiousity but to create their own identity here and to have their own posts. Trust me, we get 1001 reasons for it when we pm them. It's just the way it goes. The search function was put up years ago to solve this same issue, and we see how often that works, even without it being difficult.
I am sorry you don't like hearing it, but I really don't seeing your idea working to the effect that I am sure many hope it will.
Right now the only public problem is that people and the search function are not melding well, and a solution needs to be found, and some of the ideas here have been really strong but in the end, that is the issue, not that we are not doing our jobs. Don't make it into more than what it is.
--------------------
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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Dr_Birgit
Doctor of Poisons
Member #16453
Reged: 27/01/05
Loc: Bristol
418875
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27/05/05 03:44 AM
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Written by: coleman
if you don't perceive this as a problem i recommend that you try searching for help on say, a move you don't know the name of in poi moves, and see how far you get...
So far I've always found what I was looking for in the poi moves section, maybe because I'm more used to internet searches than the average user or maybe because I don't give up if the first try doesn't give me what I want, or maybe because my move repertoire is still quite limited. But hey, usually if someone starts a thread with "I've done a search and haven't found anything" replies tend to be very civil, even if there have been related threads three years (or days) ago. And newbies getting things wrong is normal, that's why they're newbies, so why get agitated about that? Just please stop confusing them by saying "do a Durbs", the first time I read that I had to search for Durbs 
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"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
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UsedCarOnlyFord
I passed my driving test, its a 1991 Ford transit
Member #1881
Reged: 17/04/02
Loc: Whales
418890
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27/05/05 04:04 AM
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Should this not be in social discussion now?
Theres nothing frivolous or chatty about these posts.
You can tell. Theres lots of words.
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My other car is imaginary - I have a van
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
418905
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27/05/05 04:31 AM
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pele - please point out to me where (in any of my posts since the day i joined hop) i said you are "not doing enough" or "weren't doing your jobs properly".
i have never publically criticised the mods *ever*.
where exactly are the 'insults' in this thread?
in fact, i even give you permission to dig out and post publically those pm's that i have allegedly sent you and the other mods calling you names and saying you are rubbish.
you presume to state that i think you are 'doing nothing' when i have said nothing of the sort.
i am not asking you to do more work or less work or anything different at all really.
i am making suggestions for making the site more accessable for new and old users alike and (hopefully) subsequently a little easier for everyone to search and for you guys to moderate.
i like hop and i care about what happens to it.
so shoot me.
either you don't get what i'm talking about (because what i'm asking for would mean exactly zero change in the workload of the admin team and has little or nothing to do with what the moderators do/your workload) or i'm completely wasting my time because the site admin team have already thought of this, discussed it and decided its a bad idea already.
but in the interest of an open, non-conclusive discussion, i will try to explain what i am addressing one last time:
===
i am concerned that the ratio of threads with good information vs threads that have a similar title but no useful information is moving fast in the wrong dirction.
the older the board gets, the more threads will be posted that are titled something like "5 beat weave help" and the more useless the search results become.
these posts will never stop - i accept that.
but if we had a list of links to commonly posted threads with good information, we have an opportunity to freeze the problem as it is now.
===
that's it.
if you read this and it seems to say "the mods aren't doing their jobs/enough work/anything right", i'm obviously writing things i don't mean to and i apologise.
to be honest, i am a bit upset that a suggestion of an improvement to the site, made publically, has been met first with a flat dismissal and now with a defensive post that amounts to "this suggestion is a blatent insult to the moderators! we do our jobs, you don't know what we do so shut up."
and since you asked so nicely, i will.
you said "don't make it into more than what it is."
i think that's my line now.
cole. x
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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Pele
the henna lady
Member #20
Reged: 15/12/00
Loc: WNY, USA
418928
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27/05/05 05:03 AM
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Written by: coleman
i can't remember the last time i saw a mod reply to a duplicate post or give directions to help a newbie search for what they required - very possibly there is loads of this going on behind the scenes but as far as i can tell, most of that kind of moderation is left up to the members.
if there is loads of mod intervention that we can't see, on top of all of us lot saying 'do a durbs' and providing links to old threads, that means this is a even bigger problem than it looks - that only adds to the argument for the need for a 'common thread' article
cole. x
Hmmm Coleman. This sounds to me like you are saying we are not doing our jobs...in fact, you even went so far as to say it's problematic. That is what I call public criticism, and the insuation that we don't do enough simply because you can't see it *is* insulting.
Yes UCOF..it is being moved.
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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
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Durbs
Classically British
Member #659
Reged: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
418939
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27/05/05 05:54 AM
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*lays out tea and biscuits*
Looks like we're in for the long haul here
I'm going to do bullet point, because they're easier for others to pick apart:
All of these are preceded by "In my opinion..."
1. The fact we don't notice the moderation, only the great atmosphere on the site is testimony to how good a job the mods are doing. If it was over-moderated, you'd notice, if it was under-moderated, you'd notice.
2. I think any post which is a blatant duplicate (for whatever reason) should have a "Please search for this" reply pasted, then the thread should be deleted entirely a week later to prevent them coming up in searches.
2a. It might be worth someone even going as far as running common searches and deleting all old threads which contain no useful info or repeated info. But yes, I know this would be HUGELY time consuming, but I'm sure the main "culprit" threads could be done.
3. I don't think "Do a search" should be applied in Social Chat or Social Discussion except for music, "What are peoples faveourite..." and other similair threads. This means the newbies can still post to help announce themselves on the forum.
4. Rather than saying "Do a search/Durbs" if the person is blatantly new (i.e. less than 10 posts) do it for them, and provide links to the helpful threads in your reply. It's friendlier, shows them the search function works and shows them the wealth of info they can discover with it.
5. I don't think "stickies" are the solution, purely because 80% of people don't read them. Not saying they shouldn't be created, but I don't think they should be heralded as the ultimate solution.
5a. If "stickies" were to be created - there shouldn't be too many. I think one for links of all moves, and also one saying "what's this move called?" so people can then do a search for it themselves. Ohterwise you risk having 73 stickies.
6. I think Pele (and all the mods) do an incredible job
7. I don't think "Under-Mods" (or whatever) are necessary. I think those who would be suitable, do it anyway.
8. I'm hungry
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"It's times like this I wish I'd listened to my mother"
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know - I wasn't listening"
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