_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
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? new 1-handed butterfly variation - the MOTh ?  find similar
21/02/05 04:16 PM
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the intro:
hello people, I did a search to see if this moves already exsists, but since I can't find it, have never seen anybody do it before and have seen mot develop this thing from scratch: I must conclude that this is a new move.
the move:
it's basically a one-handed butterfly where the free hand grabs the revolving chains, plays with them and lets them change direction.
I made a extract from one of his "practicepoi" videos, converted it to a gif and put it on the web here ...
I'll try to put it on this thread right under here, but it might not work. (it's 2MB)
the name?
well, because it's kind of a butterfly with the wings flapping in all different directions (and the guy doing it here goes by the name mot: www.motsplace.com ), I'd like to suggest the MOTh.
so? how about it? is this a new move, or are you gonna make me delete this post within a week?
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 eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
Edited by Parliament Of Peace (26/02/05 08:25 AM)
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
350137
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21/02/05 06:00 PM
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Well, honestly, Ive heard the idea mentioned before and have played with it a little myself. I didnt get far enough into it to learn what Mot is doing in that gif though. Its a nice move. However, I dont know that the community will fully accept your name. Sure, you can call it whatever you want and Mot has every right to make it his signature move (whatever that really means) but just knowing a lil bit about how this community terms things, I dont know that everyone will be calling these things moths. But hey, ya never know.
This has actually inspired me to look further into it. Im thinking of some two handed variations that I'll have to try tomorrow.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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Rovo
Happy and you know it
Member #5315
Reged: 30/07/03
Loc: Upstate New York
350824
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22/02/05 11:45 AM
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I posted about this a few months ago and didn't really get much of a response. There are some neat things you can do like throw one poi in the same direction as the one you didn't grab, catch it again, and throw it back into a butterfly. Theres alot of possibilities and i find them alot of fun to play with. They are really good for direction changes too.
Heres the link to the thread I started:
Two Handed One Handed Moves
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Happiness is the only thing that matters
On the corner of life I'm standing just standing kind of doing nothing,
Just biding my time,
I'm standing, seeing the world fly by my eyes it's almost blinding...
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
350893
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22/02/05 12:34 PM
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Well, I did a little playing and found a neat new variation for weaves. Its not quite the same thing but it was inspired by it. This variation might be applicable to things other than weaves as well but I havent played enough yet to tell.
The easiest way for me to describe it is to start with a forward weave in wall plane on your right side. Hold your poi with your 4 fingers leaving the thumbs free to stick up. As your left poi are about to cross over your right arm to your back, catch the chain mid way in the space between your thumb and fore finger. Continue the weave as normal. If done right, the thumb move should have worked like a carry, shortening one poi for one beat of the weave. Guess we can call these thumb carries since thats what they look like to me.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
350938
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22/02/05 01:09 PM
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Rovo:
ah see, that's where you (and so many on this forum) make a mistake by discribing something as visual as poi with words...
posting an animation works better.
Mot's been doing these moves for quite some time now as well, but we never had a video from it. until I found (only-) this one on one of his practise videos. and I thought it was about time to post it, get some response.
Icon:
hmmmm, there we go again: words.
but if I understand correctly, what you are talking about is another variation on what I call the 5-beat weave family: basically a 5 beat weave adds beats by wrapping your arms over eachother, but can also be done by wrapping the chain around any part of your arm and carrying it over for a 4 beat. doing the same on the other side would make it a 5 beat. only this one is done on the hand?
(promise to myself: make videos to post on website).
to come back to the same guy: on his website in the poi-lessons bit he has a weave variation that is a cross between this and a hyperloop, so luckily I can show you a video. I think he calls it a "hand-made hyperloop"
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eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
351020
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22/02/05 03:50 PM
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PoP, Im not talking about a 5 beat weave. Im talking about a 3 beat weave with a thumb carry. Its not a thru-wrap as you seem to think. Its similar to that hand-made hyperloop but youre only touching one chain instead of both and you stay in 3 beats.
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Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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MillenniuM
Hyperloops suck
Member #5125
Reged: 10/07/03
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22/02/05 06:56 PM
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Written by: Parliament Of Peace
Rovo:
ah see, that's where you (and so many on this forum) make a mistake by discribing something as visual as poi with words...
posting an animation works better.
Icon:
hmmmm, there we go again: words.
They made no mistake  This is a forum for poi moves, if you can't understand text descriptions, you're in the wrong place it seems... rather than sounding condescending, maybe explain what you understand and ask about what you don't?
Edited by MillenniuM (22/02/05 06:56 PM)
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coleman
big and good
Member #2914
Reged: 29/08/02
Loc: lunn dunn, yoo kay
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22/02/05 11:17 PM
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links for yous guys:
the thru-wrap thread
dragon's tongue
fake airwraps
some cool variations been mentioned here - keep it up 
cole. x
edit: why don't my links work?! 
right - they're fixed now hopefully cheers eric
--------------------
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Edited by coleman (23/02/05 11:13 PM)
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
351207
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23/02/05 01:39 AM
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Written by: MillenniuM
They made no mistake This is a forum for poi moves, if you can't understand text descriptions, you're in the wrong place it seems... rather than sounding condescending, maybe explain what you understand and ask about what you don't?
maybe you are forgetting that this is an international forum.
english is not everybody's first language plus that so many moves have been named differently by so many people that it might work confusing at times.
what I wanted to say is that some people approach the whole poi-thing too scientificly, it is (in my eyes) first of all a visual thing, something that's looks pretty, a dance, a performance. for me it doesn't matter how many "jedi-moves" you can do, just as long as you wiggle your arse with it at the same time.
what I was trying to say was that discussing visual moves in words, in this time of really cheap digital cameras, is just silly. what is wrong with seeing this as a "mistake"? you cannot deny that poi is a visual art, so yes, I call it a mistake to be all nerdy about it instead of just showing the beauty.
so now tell me: why is it that instead on commenting on the visual part of this thread, you have the urge to come in and not comment about the discussed move but get all anal about a bit of text? maybe you are just as much in the "wrong place" as you claim that I am (last time I checked this forum was called "poi-moves")
so to come back to your question:
I understand about the beauty of the art, I understand about wanting to show more people that same beauty (hence the posted animations), I understand that the others that were commenting in this thread before you, commented to help me understand some moves or the workings of other moves that might be connected to this one. the only thing that I don't understand in this post is you.
ICoN:
hmm, sounds interesting enough, but since it stays in a 3 beat, I would love to see a video of it, I've seen some you posted already, so maybe point out to me where you do such a move?
Rovo:
did you get further with those moves? any chance you can make a small vid of them? I think there wil be enough people here who would like to see it...
coleman:
hmmm. just tried to do those links again, but yeah, why don't it work??? I'll check em out as soon as I click "Ok, submit".
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eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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vanize
Lord Ballchain
Member #540
Reged: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
351338
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23/02/05 05:28 AM
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Written by: Parliament Of Peace
to come back to the same guy: on his website in the poi-lessons bit he has a weave variation that is a cross between this and a hyperloop, so luckily I can show you a video. I think he calls it a "hand-made hyperloop"
that is a thru-wrap variation really.
I met Mot about 2.5 months ago - very physically talented guy and generally lovely to hang out with.
Ever seen Mot do contact juggling? he's only been doing it a little while (I think he said 6 months at the time) but is insanely good. put a couple years behind him with the same dedication, and he'll be flat out increadible. His girlfriend gets a bit touchy about how much he practices it though... 
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
351363
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23/02/05 05:52 AM
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PoP, I cant point it out as Ive never done it before now.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
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23/02/05 06:48 AM
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yeah, I've been trying to figure out what you meant by doing it, but where end up is basically a hyperloop which is done really close to the handle instead of half way up the chain, but then with your thumb stuck in the way
and while I was at it I was doing some butterflies with sticking my hand into one of the chains (halfway up), and it just rockets that one poi in a small loop that goes twice as fast as the big one, so I can only find it usefull as a transition from a split time butterfly to a regular one...
and yeah, vanize, he's amazing... he just started doing hoop-isolations as well (you can just see 2 frames of it in the first gif on theis thread, because it was in his video just before the butterfly move). and when are you coming to holland again? I am still thinking about going to fallmouth next month, where you'll be going too, If i'm not mistaken... so maybe there.
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eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
351613
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23/02/05 12:20 PM
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Ok, look. I made a little animation to show you whats goin on.
Step 1 starts when the left poi is crossing to the right side during a 3 beat weave. The thumb of the right hand (indicated by the lil circle) is pointing outward towards the right. As the left poi crosses to the right side, its hooked onto the right thumb.
Step 2, the right poi is now on the right side as well, the left poi is still hooked onto the thumb as it begins its upward rotation
Step 3, as the left poi gets to the top of its rotation and begins its second beat, the wrist of your right hand rotates so that your thumb is now pointed inwards toward the left. This allows the left poi to continue swinging around the thumb without getting wrapped up. This is when the left poi will leave the thumb carry and finish the second beat while the right poi crosses back to the left side.
Now I hope you can understand that. Once you do and you learn it on one side, you can learn it on the other side as well and do this on alternating sides during a weave.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
351617
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23/02/05 12:26 PM
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yeah: so it is like a hyperloop, only with one chain short and the other long, and not the chains themselves act as the carry over point, but the thumb and the hand do...
what amazes me most is that it appearently takes you less time to make an animation like this then a video well done though!
*edit:
ok, I finally had time to go over coleman's links, so we must conclude that your move is called a thumb-thru-wrap.
(I only hoped that the links were about that first move I posted...)
coleman:
what I think that went wrong with your posted links, was because your URLs were the search result URLs, not the proper ones...
maybe you could edit your post, so that this thread doesn't go on 2 foot outside my monitor anymore? (pretty please?)
so here are the links again: (about the thru-wrap, not the original animation at the start of the thread)
The thru-wrap thread
air wrap, sliding wrap
a few bits of fun perchance...
--------------------
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
Edited by Parliament Of Peace (23/02/05 12:45 PM)
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DeepSoulSheep
________
Member #3146
Reged: 25/09/02
Loc: Ballybrack, Dublin
351633
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23/02/05 12:44 PM
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Nice reminds me of a move though they're only barely simaler.
Airwrap in front of you with poi going anti-clock. Wrap near hands of right poi and near poi head of left poi. Just after tangle, stick left index finger into right poi near head and let it wrap round just like vid and turn right 180 degrees to double unwrap. You can also dragon's tongue it....shocking terminology that 
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I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
351647
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23/02/05 12:59 PM
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Heh, its nothing like a hyperloop and its not a thru-wrap either cuz it never fully wraps to add beats. Its just like any of the carries currently being done (neck/arm/leg/foot) in that a body part is carrying it to the other side.... Hence thumb carries.
And I didnt make a video because I dont have a video camera anymore. Of course I would much prefer a video but at the moment, Photoshop is all I have to work with.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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Dragon7
Awhiowhio
Member #6074
Reged: 17/10/03
Loc: Aotearoa (NZ)
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23/02/05 01:19 PM
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Icon Written by:
Photoshop is all I have to work with
Well thats NOT good is it
Hyperloop/ airwrap thru raps are cool, there are alot of threads around that mention and describe them.
Anyway, like those gif's man ty. I dont know if they will take off though...we tried that already, people would rather use text  i think it has advantages, personally i like short clips of moves and descriptions.
Anyone round here know how to "gif" videos?
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
351666
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23/02/05 01:23 PM
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Can export video clips as gifs through Adobe Premeire. Im sure just about any video editing program has the function.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
351668
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23/02/05 01:29 PM
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yeah, to convert avi to gif:
download a cracked version of adobe premier pro.
import the movie, then export as movie, but make sure to click "Settings" before clicking "Save".
in settings:
- general - File Type - Animated Gif
- Video-Frame size - change it to what you want: the MOTh one is 200x150
- Video-Frame rate - take 10 (or lower to get smaller files)
- Video-Pixel aspect ratio - Square Pixels
the rest "as is" and click "Safe"
succes.
--------------------
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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Dragon7
Awhiowhio
Member #6074
Reged: 17/10/03
Loc: Aotearoa (NZ)
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23/02/05 01:33 PM
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Thanks!  Im using wmm (its for kids) but my friend says he'll send me another copy of adobe I think its a great idea to have threads with a gif.
I think it would be possible to ask people who have a certain move on their video, if you can edit it, to use as a gif for a thread, it would save alot of confusion.
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
351677
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23/02/05 01:44 PM
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--------------------
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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vanize
Lord Ballchain
Member #540
Reged: 21/08/01
Loc: Austin, Texas
351849
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23/02/05 10:55 PM
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Written by: ICoN
Heh, its nothing like a hyperloop and its not a thru-wrap either cuz it never fully wraps to add beats. Its just like any of the carries currently being done (neck/arm/leg/foot) in that a body part is carrying it to the other side.... Hence thumb carries.
thru wraps always have to add extra beats? I mean they usually do, I just didn't know that was part of the definition. I'll buy thumb carry as a legitimate name, but I still think it is sort of a thru-wrap variation.
nice effort on the animation BTW. astoundingly clear for only 3 frames.
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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24/02/05 09:47 AM
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Well, do you know of any other 3 beat thru wraps? Im not sure if adding beats is in the definition but Im pretty sure it has to actually wrap around something completely (ie at least one full rotation) before changing sides to be a thru wrap. This move never wraps, it only hooks around half way before unraveling. I suppose it COULD be referred to as a type of thru-wrap but then every carry would also have to be called a thru-wrap.
Eh, call it what you want. I just feel like with the current definitions we have been using, calling it a thru-wrap would be more confusing. Like, before I found this, if someone came to me and said "do a thumb carry" I would most likely come out with this as a result whereas if someone said "do a thumb thru-wrap" I would have come out with a 5 beat weave with thumb thru-wraps.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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MikeIcon
Master Manipulator
Member #4320
Reged: 27/03/03
Loc: Philadelphia, PA - USA
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24/02/05 09:56 AM
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I was gonna quote Spherculism's definitions for "carry" and "thru-wrap" but in doing so, I was only further convinced that Spherc's definitions arent for me
According to Spherc, this would be classified as a thru-wrap so I concede, call it what you want. I will, however, continue to call these carries.
--------------------
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
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_pOp_
Playing OldSchool Poi
Member #5550
Reged: 22/08/03
Loc: amsterdam
352473
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24/02/05 01:50 PM
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WOW!!!! you all have soooooo proven my point, even though this thread is about the move in the first post (the one with the gif animation), the only thing people talk (or argue) about is the description of the other moves, and what it might exactly be. see? text is confusing....
I'm strongly thinking about starting an animated gif thread in the videos section...
--------------------
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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