Behind the back poi...

...has anyone managed to crack into the world of (painless) behind the back poi.
I'm not talking butterflies, but full on weave/train and chicken oriental moves....

...and what type of fire poi are best for this (wires (can't believe I nearly wrote whips!! ) /chains/short/long)..
Clues anyone?!

After a couple of months of real frustration (everything else came so easily. meh!), I have mastered the behind-the-back in one direction with two different entrances into it. I'm still having a bastard of a time with the reverse of it, which is annoying 'cause I really REALLY want to do behind the back body spins. I've found that mid-length chains work best for it. I've done it with rope and chains with equal success. I think it's a matter of mastering the move and making it fluid. Once you've got that down, it matters less what materials and length you use.

Okay Sammie...now we know where your mind is!!!
I like mid to long lengths on them for behind the back...short ones you have to lean too far forward for to avoid hitting yerself and too long you thwap yourself in odd places (gave myself a shiner on the left eye). Might as well have yer head between yer legs at that point...hmmmmm...ideas....
At any rate,I agree with DB there....it is VERY frusterating Everything kind of came natural and effortless until that point, and even then it was the weave and such, that screwed me over...the butterfly variations were fairly easy. Start with one arm, switch to the other and slowly then work them in together. It's about the best I can say...that and work your week arm more...I had to practice with my left alot more than my right cause I am right dominant.
Also...stretch before trying it...to loosen yer shoulders and upper back. Alot of these moves turn the bodies in ways that is not normally natural so it can cause aches afterward.
good luck and watch yer butt!!!!!

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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

So I started working on body bending whilst poi-ing...and did you know that if you stand on your shoulders...balancing on yer shoulders and neck, chin tucked into yer chest, that doing the poi behind yer back is easier than when you do it standing up...mainly cause your hands are naturally facing up. You just need shorted poi and a good sense og balance...it leads to a neat roll out as well....just thought I'd throw it n for the flexible ones.

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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

grrrrrr....i remember being flexible...when i was 5!!! i think it's so unfair that Sammie is complaining about behind the back moves - try having a guy's body and see if you like practising behind the back stuff
i am having trouble getting the btb weave too, i am trying to do the one that starts by swinging in reverse - that's the easy one isn't it??? i am pretty much convinced i'll never get it, the best i've done so far is cross-overs but i can't seem to be able to do it in split time then again i barely practised it for 3-4 times, but i get the feeling i'll need 3-4 thousand times to get it right... grrrrrrrr it's not fair!!!
happy swinging,
Simos

Simos....if I can get it you can!!!! Just gotta keep braving the injuries! :P
I think btb reverse is best...and you know I would love to have a guys body to swing around! That's not what you meant...is it?
:O
Oh well....and I am sorry if I don't believe you aren't flexible...you have to be to do some of these things! Sheesh! No faith!!!!
Well, you could always try disjointing yer shoulders!!!
Happy bruises *kisses in advance to make them feel better!*

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Pele [img]http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net/ukliam2.gif[/img]
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

hey Pele, thanx for having faith in my flexibility , i'll think of you everytime i get a bruise from now on... oh and about the man's body part, of course it's not what i meant, it's just that my english is not very good and it sometimes comes out the wrong way - a woman's body to try behind the back stuff on the other hand is ideal
happy swinging (oh god i just realized that to someone with no background in Poi or anything similar the whole discussion board will seem as a vast sex forum, with swinging and behind the back stuff etc esp. Sammie referring to whips ),
Simos

[This message has been edited by Simos (edited 23 December 2000).]

more on the btb weave...

i initially learnt the btb weave in reverse, as i assumed (from somewhere) that this was the easiest way to learn it. i've since learnt the btb weave with the chains twirled forwards and, to be honest, it came a hell of a lot quicker than learning the reverse btb weave - it literally clicked in after a couple of hours practice.

i know that this might have been due to the fact that i originally learnt the forward weave before most other moves and so gained a lot of familiarity with it, or maybe the reverse btb weave is trickier... i don't know, but my point is that it might be easier the learn the btb weave using whichever weave you're strongest with when you twirl in front. so if you're stronger with a forward weave, work on getting that one behind the back.

maybe the best thing that i can say is that the weave you perform is not that much changed when you do it behind the back... i reckon that it's the same movements as when you do it in front, and the major change is that you position your body in front of your hands and the chains, instead of behind them.

think of it as a change in body position, maybe, instead of a change in hand position??

as to length of chains, i learnt them both with short chains (c. 40cm) and then started practising it with longer (60cm) chains. but, by God, i'd have loved to have figured out some way to stop clocking meself in the head as they came up in front of me!!!

hope this helps (but it's probably just hot air ;-) )

simon

(3) my...

Blump Blump been reading some old old posts some of them are great go back and take a look for yourself

wow! what a great idea....
we should have a seperate section in the forum for old posts brought back to life...

*runs off to search for more old posts

Oh no.
please dont

btb weave.....i spent ages learning the backwards one and learnt the forwards one quickly aswell simon, and i agree it doesseem soooo much easier and nicer to do

i get really into my forwards btb weaves and variations

dangerboy-i learnt the forwards weave btb by starting in backwards then turning around into the other way and seeing what it felt like, like a sort of btb waist wrap, but not, didnt work for about an hour but then i started to get it....i reckon thats probably the easiest way to learn different directions, with btb weave

hahaha, nate: did you read the dates on the posts? they are from december 2000...
I think they know how to do it by now and thought a couple of other people as well
and Valura: what's the matter? said some things in the past you don't want to see resurfaced????

Hmmm? Val? We wanna know.........!

yep - this thread has some golden advice in it.
nice one mint sauce.

it even has this gem:

"the major change is that you position your body in front of your hands and the chains, instead of behind them."

took me ages to work out that that is the reason everyone finds them so hard.

i posted on it somewhere but now i realise i was just rehashing old theories

as for good old threads, simian made an invaluable post that collects some of the best ones and made handy links to all of them.
he should be given a crown for that work


cole. x

can do 3bt weave,butterflty and thread the needle behind the back so far

and the beat goes on,

I particularly like pele's move, and I totally agree with valura.

Its really spooky the way anyone can pull up anything you said anytime on here. :shudder:

I can not do much btb, but Im getting buzzsawhyps (orwhatever they are called now) running a little....

T

finding exactly the right mid length was key for me after months of trying at my regular chain length and just hitting leg. now i've worked out to being able to work longer chains if i have to, and can get into and out of some inversions at the length i started with. with the forward one recently, i totally had to relearn to weave from 'side plane chains' and 'crossed body plane chains', back through forward butterfly and threading, then two-beats in each direction. i got to the point again for the first time in ages where i could only do the crossover on one side -- it's great to be back learning the same old new stuff!!

"the major change is that you position your body in front of your hands and the chains, instead of behind them."
^^-- that line is meaningless until you stop hitting yourself, i think. don't ever get frustrated if you can help it. people who don't hit themselves when they're practicing don't learn new moves.

-- dut

Hello,
I am new. I was just introduced to poi a couple of months ago, and I have most of the in front moves and over hweaqd ones down (except 5-beat weave). Does anyone know some ways to strech out the muscles in the front of the chest bc I feel like they are pulled everytime I practice behind the back?