Contact poi

Firstly, please don't let this thread turn into an argument about names!

So lets get the definition out of the way. What I would call contact poi is movements where the poi handle leaves your hand and the poi swing round various parts of your body, OR THE OTHER POI before the handle returns to your hand again.

Nah, scrap that - I'm going to argue with myself, better definition: the process of manipulating the poi without gripping it.

At the time of writing this I haven't yet found a thread which describes the various contact moves around at the moment, so I would like to start this one in the hope that I can bounce ideas off people and advance my currently somewhat limited repertoir of variations. And sorry if I'm repeating things that have already been descibed - it's not always easy to tell on HoP.

Firstly, your poi: The poi body: the length of poi between handle and head, should be made from comfortable material to have constantly rubbing against your skin- generally something thicker than string would be advisable (sock poi or cone poi are the best in my opinion). You also need to have weighted handles. It depends on the weight ratio between poi-head and poi-handle to where the "propellor point" or "contact point" is. (NB: I am making these names up - but they seem to be quite fitting).

I have found that a ratio of 2:3 handle to head is optimal for ease of propelloring (propellor definition follows underneath) and also for not disrupting the rest of my spinning repetoir, actually, I'm not entirely sure what my weight ratio is... but it is best to experiment with weights to find whatever suits you.


So... some basic contact moves (sorry if I'm using foreign names to you):

propellors - I stole this name from the devil stick movement, seemed apt. Basically you move your hand from the poi handle onto the poi body, but maintain the rotation and tension of the poi. This can be done horizontally (much much easier), or vertically, and lead to endless possiblilties With the vertical propellor, you will find you need to give a little upwards push for every rotation to keep the momentum.


rolls (suicides they might be called?) - these are basically single rotations of propellors, but can be spun round more parts of the body because the motion doesn't have to be maintained. You release the handle just after you enter the wrap and give a push with whatever limb is being wrapped to allow the poi to spin one rotation before re-capturing the handle.

specific rolls I like:
- Over the arm, whilst the hand on that arm is either spinning or propelloring the other poi.
- Over the elbow and into a throw or wrist-propellor.

neck rolls - oh dear, this is where my terminology fails me, because what I call a neck roll doesn't actually roll around the neck, but generally over it, or just round one side. It is very much like a neck roll in staff, you swing the poi as if to wrap your neck up in it, but let go of the handle just as the poi makes contact with your neck, so that it simply slips round to be caught again - hopefully keeping the rotation.

another stolen contact staff move:
Step 1. horizontally spinning or propelloring in front of you in an inwards btfy motion
Step 2. take one poi up to your neck and do a neck roll
Step 3. catch on back of same hand and bring it back down in a propellor
Step 4. take other poi up to your neck and do a neck roll
Step 5. catch on back of same hand and bring it back down in a propellor
Step 6. repeat steps 2 to 5 ad infinitum.

And not to be forgotten as vital part of the contact family, discovered and developed largely by the not so large, but incredibly talented Matt Terry...(what an intro! )...
THE WIBBLE - source: www.spherculism.net, written by Matt Terry.

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Wibble = throw, tapback, tapback, tapback, tapback, tapback....
where each 'tapback' is hitting the handle of the poi back the way it came.

If you make contact further toward the center of the poi body the poi won't wibble back straight away, instead it will do 1 wrap around your arm, then wibble off again. This doesn't have a specific wibbling name, it's just a wibble as far as i'm concerned, perhaps a propellor followed by a wibble if you want to get technical.

But 'Wibbling' is more 'a familiy' or 'style' of moves than a single specific thing.

Propellor = poi spinning round constantly in same direction, exactly the same as the 'propellor' devilstick move.

Doing this is tricky and releys on you making contact with the poi at the center of gravity (CoG), then sliding up toward the handle, poi jumps off a little, reset hand position to CoG. I find using 2 fingers is best.

So generally if the poi continues in the same direction then it's a propellor, if it changes direction it's a wibble, the 2 are closely related.

Both are considered 'Contact Poi' since you can make the 'throw' so tiny that the poi remains in contact with your body. Or you can throw it high and continue the propellor or wibble.

oh yeah:

wibble = 1 spin
dibble = 2 spins

ibble was a name given to the move where you tap the tail, then tap the head, so :

ibble = 1/2 spin (ie a proper juggling tapback)

Wibbling possibilities and variations

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You can wibble under a leg or behind your back (I can toss one over my shoulder from back to front or from front to back but i cannot yet wibble btb)

You can do double wibbles and triple wibbles (dibbles and tribbles)

You can wibble, dibble or tribble off off the fore arm of the hand holding the opposite poi ~ inwards or outwards (harder).

You can link all those crazy throw patterns together into 1 seemless wibble.

I can now wibble once around my ankle and back up to my hand. Which i'm very happy abount.

I can almost pull off a wibble around my neck.

I can now wibble both poi at the same time in 2 hands, bit better than when i saw you last garthy but still not quite up to scratch.

You can wibble 2 poi off one hand (can't get this at all yet)

You can wibble between many poiple. Me and Rickets got 3 poi wibbling a kind of shower juggling pattern by standing next to each other.

You can hold 1 poi between your hands and wibble the other on the poi body. (Great idea someone came up with the other day in the forums, can't remember who, sorry)

Well, that's about the state of wibbling at the moment, thanks for all the support from poiple.

Look here for some more interesting wibble-related contact stuff from Acciaio...

So, that's all I got for basic movements, but some nice vaiations and combos:

rolls to propellors
- starting in an arm roll, allow the poi to move up towards your hand as it slips and keep that rotation going in a propellor (affective and easy in a horizontal plane)
- this is also particularly nice one from an elbow roll, started from an elbow through wrap through to the wrist propellor, as demonstrated by duballstar on spherculism.
- can also be done from starting the roll under your armpit and working it up your arm

trapping - this is where you trap the poi in various parts of your body or on your poi. e.g. in an armpit, elbow or behind the knee. It basically entails trapping the handle of the poi in somewhere other than your hand, but I'm sure there are plenty of lovely ways to do trappings with the poi head or body too. You dont have to maintain the rotation of the poi, but my favourite trappings all do - an example:

- underarm trapping - eg. using the right-hand poi. Hold your left arm out to the side, swing the RH poi underneath so it rotates behind your back, bring left arm down to your side and let go of the RH poi handle - thus trapping the poi (still swinging) under your left arm. There are various ways of getting out of this - either simply take the handle again with your RH, or you can release the trapping so that the poi is flung in any number of directions.... experiment!

contact throws and catches - haven't experimented a great deal with these, but the basic contact throw would be from a propellor - releasing the poi just after you give it an upwards push - minor hand movement variations can determine the direction of the throw. In a similar way, the basic contact catch would be a catch straight into a propellor - you just need to watch the rotation while its in the air and go into the propelloring motion as the poi head is just coming down from the 12-o-clock position.

Another contact throw is what I like to call the bounce throw, e.g. on the arm, from a wall plane RH poi anti-clockwise spin, with the poi head coming down from the 12-o-clock position to 9 with the Larm in the way, you place the handle on top of the Larm and let the rest of the poi body swing underneath, releasing the handle only as the poi starts to rise up again and giving a little *bounce* from the Larm. The RH poi will then spring off the arm. The direction of the throw can be altered by the length of time you hold the poi handle before the *bounce*

whip-catches these have been discussed in many other threads before this one, but I thought it was worth mentioning them here, as they can be considered also as a part of the contact family - a contact catch no less, and a bit of what I like to call poi on poi action My definition of a whip catch (and feel free to ammend any mistakes I make:) ) is the catching (whipping) of one poi out of the air onto the other poi. Since this means a throw preceeding the whip catch, there can be any number of variations: directional/throw origin/type
- throw from same directional spinning (i.e. weave-type motions)
- throw from opposite directional spinning (i.e. Btfly-type motions)
- from various origins e.g. back-cross, under-arm, under-leg etc
- throw type e.g. propellor throw, tapback, bounce throw...
INTO whipcatch variations!! Once you have caught the poi onto the other poi-body, there are a coulpe of variations I know of and I'm sure yet many more:
- suicide hyperloop, as the free handle comes spinning round - take hold and let the poi untangle as they undoubtably will at first refuse to do!... you just have to work at it
- whip throw! oh joy of joys! Stumbled across this accidentally, and now it is the bane of my life grrrrr, but basically involves timing the whip catch just right and making contact with the other poi in just the right place to cause the "whipped" poi to be thrown into the air again - of course in a very controlled manner to be caught beautifully into the free hand. (See the link for further explanation.)

This link also mentions another throw which could be catagorized as a contact throw:
hyperloop throw - more poi on poi action!!! This is a throw which can be done in two ways and two directions (as far as I know, but no doubt there are Btfly variations too). The following are all same directional spinning throws from wall plane:
- Clockwise. Release LH poi. Depends on your handle weighting as to where the poi should make contact, but fairly near the handle of the released poi and just handle-side of centre on the other is a safe bet. Should feel a bit like a bounce throw as is based on the same principles.
- Clockwise. Release RH poi. Again handle weighting dependant, but this throw can be seen very much like a propellor throw. The nexus on the "thrown" poi should be at the same place for doing a propellor, and on the "held" poi between poi-head and centre.
- Same principles apply for anti-clockwise hyperloop throws


7th Feb 2007 - time for an edit!

Some old, some new ideas, I just thought it'd be helpful to collate things in the first post of this thread:

I cant remember what the devil stick move for this is called - maybe helicopters. maybe should be called contact corkskrews But its basically when you...
propellor the poi in a horizontal plane and move it from above your head to down low, then up again ad infinitum.
you can also pop this out into a horizontal throw at the top.

NB. this move comes as a natural recovery from a f!cked up horizontal propellor - but it is different depending on whether you start at the top or underneath. Starting high is easier and you have to scoop your hand right around the poi as you bring it down, and open up again as you return upwards


One from the staff moves (have also forgotten name): (description for just one poi)
spinning vertically CW in RH
stick LH straight out to the left.
swing poi BTB and under that left arm end up end falling behind the head
use the momentum of the poi and a nudge from the left arm (it helps to swing the left arm up in the air) to force the poi into another rotation over the right shoulder and hopefully into your hand again!

NB. you can add the other poi into the move by simply spinning the other poi in the LH - easiest is CW, and you should start the move spinning the LH poi out to the side, and behind you



BHB catch
principle is:

stick one hand straight up in air
rotate poi inwards (e.g. LH CW as you look up)
let poi slip in a propellor movement down your arm to your neck
get timing just right, so poi slips elegantly rotating past your neck to your hip
catch with other hand BTB

can be followed by:

stick other hand straight up in air
rotate poi outwards
let poi slip in a propellor movement down your arm to your neck
get timing just right, so poi slips elegantly rotating past your neck to your hip
catch with other hand in front of your body

sweet.

an extension on these sliding horizontal propellors is the poi steve

- follow steps up until poi gets to your neck...
use momentum of rotating poi to move it around the back of your neck.
slip poi onto other arm and along to hand.
(forcing the poi upwards after the neckroll is nigh on impossible... but perhaps with a bit more practice...)

Proper neck rolls - OK, so I said my terminology was wrong. What I described as a "neck roll" before was only a half neck roll and then I discovered it was possible to do a FULL NECK ROLL woooooooooooo!! Again, hard hard move, almost so hard that your eyes bleed, but hey, its worth it! I guess it's obvious how it's done, just an extension of the roll family. So...
vertically - lean forwards and wrap as if to do the half roll described above (NB: can be placed on with either hand) and keep the momentum of the spin by following the movement of the poi with your head (does that make sense?), you basically draw a little circle in the air with your head - only its not exactly a circle, because you give the poi more of a push in the upwards direction than the down.
horizontally - I found this harder, but if you understood the directions for the vertical roll, you just apply the same theory to the horizontal plane. If anyone has any tips on how to do this sweetly, let me know!

multiple opposite direction arm rolls - once you can do an arm roll on the same arm that is already spinning a poi, try doing it from a butterfly motion, so that the poi are spinning in opposite directions on your arm and hand - haven't yet tried this with a propellor, but with a normal spin, its not as hard as it might sound!

propellor flowers and anti-spin propellor flowers good for breaking things around you.

propellor buzzsaw

snags nice name given to a nice move (see thread and video by Rovo snags 2.0) it's basically trapping one poi on the other (see trapping above) from any sort of wrap, manipulating them together for a bit and then releasing back into two hands again. Best to just watch the vid! Lots of nice variations possible

ankles fun! - apart from kick-ups and fibbles, there are many other nice things to do with feet and ankles with contact poi: 'ankle through-wraps' basically kick the poi from BTB to the front and into a throw; 'ankle propellors' self explanitory if you understand a propellor, but really really hard! Playing with these though develops lots of other ankle wrap variations - letting the poi wrap once around the ankle and flipping the handle up to unwrap, bounce-throws that harldy wrap at all... and a load of variations on direction of release (!!)


Phew, that was a lot of writing. Hope it makes sense. Hope I can do all of these soon!
NB: Video footage is still (!!) underway, so hopefully will soon be able to provide some useful links to demonstrate the moves.

jam
Lx

I've been working on this lately.

My setup are glowsticks on the end of strings, much like handles.

With the weight balanced, you can do things such as wrapping a limb, letting go, have the handles spiral around your limb, and then catching a handle out of midair.

I assume that's a "roll" you're talking about.

With weight-balanced poi it's fun to toss them into the air and then catch the ends as they spiral down.

If the poi come down and land on a limb, it will tend to spiral and you can flip it back into the air without using your hands.

If anyone wants to see, you can pm me for a short demonstration video.

peekaboo

elasta - sorry i didn't get to meet you at clapham but i did see you spin and your burn was beautiful to watch.

hopefully catch you last weekend bristol in a couple of weeks

I'm gonna wait until next summer on this one, then steal all of Elasta's moves and then claim I invented them years ago.

"Oh yeah, I got bored with contact poi a few years ago, you know you can also do that move behind your back right?"

I tried that line this weekend. "Yes, I was doing those moves ages ago"... Everything went fine until I actually tried to do them again. Oh yes, that's why I stopped doing contact poi - it's ridicululuously hard. The number of variables is the killer. Of course, I blame the fact that it was windy

You forgot the most important line...

"...before I hurt my wrist"

Then when you mess up, just grab your wrist in agony. (Note, make sure to be consistant as to which wrist you grab.)

I'm inspired again! WOOHOO! Has thought of things to do n play with.... thanks guys!

elasta, if you are the person spinning beautiful contact poi in MCPs vid my hat comes off for you! Bravo! I had not been impressed with contact poi til I saw you do it. Katinca and I were just like wooo! thats cool! hey you could do that with fire!

if you arent that person, just pretend you are, ok ?

nice work! I think I'll learn contact poi after I learn contact staff. I'm about 1/4 of the way there I reckon...

Josh

I can just say : It was indeed elasta doing hard things with poi...

But she looked better in the video than her current avatar, which is of course her alter ego Mrs McNuggets - the personification of pure evil.

Sorry to be on subjet for a minute....

Contact Pass To pass a poi from one contact move to another on a different part of the body. ie Moving the poi when it's doing propellor on one wrist to propellor on the other wrist or even swapping both at the same time or from wrist to leg. The combinations/possibilities are almost endless.

nice one Bug, this is a good move, but hard to do with both poi at the same time! You can throw one up into a double or triple spin as you pass the other, OR, harder, you can pass one on to the arm that is already spinning a poi, slide that towards the hand, then pass the poi in the hand to the other arm. This move can be done continuously theoretically, but requires you to sell your soul to satan to get it smooth!

New things been trying:

Proper neck rolls - OK, so I said my terminology was wrong. What I described as a "neck roll" before was only a half neck roll and today I discovered it was possible to do a FULL NECK ROLL woooooooooooo!! Again, hard hard move, almost so hard that your eyes bleed, but hey, its worth it! Pretty obvious how it's done, just an extension of the roll family. So...
vertically - lean forwards and wrap as if to do the half roll described above (NB: can be placed on with either hand) and keep the momentum of the spin by following the movement of the poi with your head (does that make sense?), you basically draw a little circle in the air with your head - only its not exactly a circle, because you give the poi more of a push in the upwards direction than the down.
horizontally - I found this harder, but if you understood the directions for the vertical roll, you just apply the same theory to the horizontal plane. If anyone has any tips on how to do this sweetly, let me know!

multiple opposite direction arm rolls - once you can do an arm roll on the same arm that is already spinning a poi, try doing it from a butterfly motion, so that the poi are spinning in opposite directions on your arm and hand - haven't yet tried this with a propellor, but with a normal spin, its not as hard as it might sound!

that's it for today, I'm off to play...

gosh!

ive been away too long.

T

open handed nunchuck techniques?

uhhhh, think spinning the poi with no hands... but using other parts of your body.

seen it done with nunchucks.... around the legs, over the arms, around the neck, it's crazy

first of all... yay, laura's posting lots of stuff on hop!

secondly...
propellors - can be corckscrewed in a similar way to the vertical elbow through wrap

and thirdly... anything you can do with contact staff is worth trying with poi

can't wait to see someone get really good at all this!

I saw a contact move last night that Laura did that I bet you'll never be able to do Custom / Dub (Baring major surgery!)

Gonna add that one to the List of moves Laura?